66 billion over the last 10 years, but it's the Tories fault
Discussion
Listening to R4 this morning, and the Beeb is now banging on about the fact that most of the hospitals built in the last 10 years were built under PFI, and that this will cost £66 billion - or 6 times more than their original build cost.
And then of course the Beeb blamed the conservatives for inventing the PFI concept - Nu Labia were warmly described as having "embraced it".
And where was the Beeb when many people were questionning the PFI led spending spree of the last decade? Oh yes, thats right, they were so far up Blair/Browns arse that they couldn't hear the criticism..
And then of course the Beeb blamed the conservatives for inventing the PFI concept - Nu Labia were warmly described as having "embraced it".
And where was the Beeb when many people were questionning the PFI led spending spree of the last decade? Oh yes, thats right, they were so far up Blair/Browns arse that they couldn't hear the criticism..
Aye I heard that in the end they slipped in that it was originally the Tories idea, and Labour 'went with it'. Honestly..
What pisses me off is that someone should be held to task over this, but it will never ever ever happen, its just not fair.. as its basically fraud I suspect at some level, or complete incompetence at getting the figures wrong. Im guessing my 3 year old or my 3 week old (pointing randomly at some numbers on a sheet) could make just as accurate a guess.
I know, basically its expected that this level of fraud will happen..
What pisses me off is that someone should be held to task over this, but it will never ever ever happen, its just not fair.. as its basically fraud I suspect at some level, or complete incompetence at getting the figures wrong. Im guessing my 3 year old or my 3 week old (pointing randomly at some numbers on a sheet) could make just as accurate a guess.
I know, basically its expected that this level of fraud will happen..
Edited by joe_90 on Friday 13th August 08:32
article on t'internet said:
On 27 October 2006,(Conservative) Health spokesman, Andrew Lansley, made a full-blooded - and well-directed - attack on Labour’s massive hospital building programme using the Private Finance Initiative (PFI).
In a statement headed Lunacy as Labour wastes £45 billion on NHS hospital projects [1], he called “for a fundamental review after it emerged that the National Health Service will have to pay private sector contractors an incredible £53 billion for hospitals worth only £8 billion”. The statement continued:
“Describing the cost of the Private Finance Initiative deals as ‘complete lunacy’, the Shadow Health Secretary said: ‘For all too many hospitals, PFI has turned into a straightjacket. It is time for a fundamental review of how the NHS accesses capital for future investment.’”
Brown’s preferred mechanism
Although Conservative Chancellor, Norman Lamont, was responsible for the invention of PFI in the early 90s, it wasn’t used much until New Labour came to power in 1997. Then, it became Gordon Brown’s preferred mechanism for acquiring finance for public sector projects.
PFI is first and foremost a form of public borrowing, which, like conventional public borrowing, has to be paid back with interest by the state. In fact, PFI is an expensive form of public borrowing, more expensive that the conventional method. It is more expensive because the state can always borrow money more cheaply than the private sector (because, whereas a private corporation may go bust and default on its debts, the state will not). The essence of PFI is that the state employs a private agent to borrow on its behalf. As such, PFI wastes taxpayers’ money and a prudent Chancellor would ban its use for public projects, rather than insist on its use, as Gordon Brown has done.
so why did the Beeb not mention Tory opposition to the use of PFI for hospitals?In a statement headed Lunacy as Labour wastes £45 billion on NHS hospital projects [1], he called “for a fundamental review after it emerged that the National Health Service will have to pay private sector contractors an incredible £53 billion for hospitals worth only £8 billion”. The statement continued:
“Describing the cost of the Private Finance Initiative deals as ‘complete lunacy’, the Shadow Health Secretary said: ‘For all too many hospitals, PFI has turned into a straightjacket. It is time for a fundamental review of how the NHS accesses capital for future investment.’”
Brown’s preferred mechanism
Although Conservative Chancellor, Norman Lamont, was responsible for the invention of PFI in the early 90s, it wasn’t used much until New Labour came to power in 1997. Then, it became Gordon Brown’s preferred mechanism for acquiring finance for public sector projects.
PFI is first and foremost a form of public borrowing, which, like conventional public borrowing, has to be paid back with interest by the state. In fact, PFI is an expensive form of public borrowing, more expensive that the conventional method. It is more expensive because the state can always borrow money more cheaply than the private sector (because, whereas a private corporation may go bust and default on its debts, the state will not). The essence of PFI is that the state employs a private agent to borrow on its behalf. As such, PFI wastes taxpayers’ money and a prudent Chancellor would ban its use for public projects, rather than insist on its use, as Gordon Brown has done.
edited to correct quoting
Edited by andymadmak on Friday 13th August 08:42
DonkeyApple said:
PFI is absolutely essential if you want to keep enormous levels of borrowing and liability of your books. The Greeks are amatuers compared to GB.
Indeed. Mr Brown embraced PFI so he could borrow far in excess of the figures he promised, but simply do so off balance sheet. Then of course he knew that he wouldn't be in power over the coming 20 years when the country is forced to pay for his stupendously ridiculous borrowing levels.What a scum bag.
And yet some people, even some people on here, moan about the amount of money spent on defence? 
When the government is either happy to (in the case of labour) or continues to/forced to (in the case of the current lot) spunk such extortionate amounts of money against the wall.
When the government is either happy to (in the case of labour) or continues to/forced to (in the case of the current lot) spunk such extortionate amounts of money against the wall.
Edited by AshVX220 on Friday 13th August 09:48
Department of Health spokeswoman on the BBC said:
the schemes were providing "value for money" and were "affordable".
Was this a labour spokeswoman a few years back? Surely a current one should be saying " we got screwed over when GB signed us up to these for the next 20 years. We're being f*****d by this and theres nothing we can do, thanks to the one eyed t**t"andymadmak said:
article on t'internet said:
On 27 October 2006,(Conservative) Health spokesman, Andrew Lansley, made a full-blooded - and well-directed - attack on Labour’s massive hospital building programme using the Private Finance Initiative (PFI).
In a statement headed Lunacy as Labour wastes £45 billion on NHS hospital projects [1], he called “for a fundamental review after it emerged that the National Health Service will have to pay private sector contractors an incredible £53 billion for hospitals worth only £8 billion”. The statement continued:
so why did the Beeb not mention Tory opposition to the use of PFI for hospitals?In a statement headed Lunacy as Labour wastes £45 billion on NHS hospital projects [1], he called “for a fundamental review after it emerged that the National Health Service will have to pay private sector contractors an incredible £53 billion for hospitals worth only £8 billion”. The statement continued:
king lunacy!
TVR Moneypit said:
andymadmak said:
And then of course the Beeb blamed the conservatives for inventing the PFI concept - Nu Labia were warmly described as having "embraced it".
I'd really, really like to find a way of getting out of paying my TV licence.
Magog said:
TVR Moneypit said:
andymadmak said:
And then of course the Beeb blamed the conservatives for inventing the PFI concept - Nu Labia were warmly described as having "embraced it".
I'd really, really like to find a way of getting out of paying my TV licence.
andymadmak said:
Listening to R4 this morning, and the Beeb is now banging on about the fact that most of the hospitals built in the last 10 years were built under PFI, and that this will cost £66 billion - or 6 times more than their original build cost.
And then of course the Beeb blamed the conservatives for inventing the PFI concept - Nu Labia were warmly described as having "embraced it".
And where was the Beeb when many people were questionning the PFI led spending spree of the last decade? Oh yes, thats right, they were so far up Blair/Browns arse that they couldn't hear the criticism..
I was driving down the M1 this morning when I heard it.And then of course the Beeb blamed the conservatives for inventing the PFI concept - Nu Labia were warmly described as having "embraced it".
And where was the Beeb when many people were questionning the PFI led spending spree of the last decade? Oh yes, thats right, they were so far up Blair/Browns arse that they couldn't hear the criticism..
Completely got me out of the blue, there I was expecting a bit of a rebuke about Labour letting costs get out of hand then BAM Thatcher's fault! If you were on the M1 and you saw somebody suddenly speed up then drive eratically it was me. And I hate Thatcher.
Edited by Pesty on Friday 13th August 18:03
Blame, according to the BBC;
The banking crisis? Tories
University funding? Tories
Miner's Union trashing the mining industry? Tories
Hospital cleanliness and MRSA? Tories
MoD Funding? Tories
War on Iraq? Tories (because they didn't oppose it)
Congestion Charging? Tories
Me?
The thing I really blame the Tories for is Blair.
The banking crisis? Tories
University funding? Tories
Miner's Union trashing the mining industry? Tories
Hospital cleanliness and MRSA? Tories
MoD Funding? Tories
War on Iraq? Tories (because they didn't oppose it)
Congestion Charging? Tories
Me?
The thing I really blame the Tories for is Blair.
andymadmak said:
Listening to R4 this morning
I like R4, I really do, but at the end of the day, it's still BBC R4. At least it's not Bill & Sian though eh? lovely people no doubt. But the lies! Oh my! If you stop drinking the water, you can actually see the flesh falling from their faces.
Edited by Balmoral Green on Friday 13th August 18:50
Say it again, the country was 'ok' under the 'old' tories. Not perfect, but I didnt lie in bed thinking the whole thing was going to implode. They knew the limits, they werent reckless, corrupt maybe, but not reckless, tempered by proper old fashioned prudence, cynicism maybe, kept us above water, proved by browns shadowing of tory spending plans until they opened the socialism spending, sorry borrowing taps.
The headline figures sound interesting, but the reality is different. Anyone know the building/maintenance costs pre PPI? Only 4% different according to one of the heads of the hospitals concerned, and the old buildings were unsustainable. But please don't let reality stop a good PH discussion.
Dunk76 said:
Blame, according to the BBC;
The banking crisis? Tories
University funding? Tories
Miner's Union trashing the mining industry? Tories
Hospital cleanliness and MRSA? Tories
MoD Funding? Tories
War on Iraq? Tories (because they didn't oppose it)
Congestion Charging? Tories
Me?
The thing I really blame the Tories for is Blair.
Yes, i blame Kinnock, if he had won the 1992 election maybe we would never of had 13 years of new labour, or another labour government at all after 1997.The banking crisis? Tories
University funding? Tories
Miner's Union trashing the mining industry? Tories
Hospital cleanliness and MRSA? Tories
MoD Funding? Tories
War on Iraq? Tories (because they didn't oppose it)
Congestion Charging? Tories
Me?
The thing I really blame the Tories for is Blair.
As for the comment from BG saying Bill and Sian on Breakfast are probably nice people, Bill yes. Sian? I cannot stand her, the way she sits on the breakfast sofa with that smug nanny knows best grin, give the smarmy cow a good slap.
Right where is me beer...
Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff