Final salary pension schemes should end
Discussion
RichardD said:
It isn't fair for someone not to get what they thought they would/are contracted to get/blahblah.
It isn't fair that other people have to pick up the tab for promises that previous politicians made.
Something like that
you (the voting public) voted that govetrnment into power, therefore you are responsible for their policies. So its your fault (not you indevidually you understand, but you the public)(even if you didnt vote for them).It isn't fair that other people have to pick up the tab for promises that previous politicians made.
Something like that
Paddy_N_Murphy said:
sidicks said:
Quinny said:
Jealousy
Personally, I'm in favour of revisons to public final salary pension schemes as taxpayers are having to pay the unaffordable costs, when the money could be better spent elsewhere.Sidicks
Consider it moving the Goalposts. Roll with the Changes - wyou would have to if it was the private sector.
I find it odd that many people here opt to work for loads of different employers or start their own company or perhaps go contracting or perhaps they haven't saved enough for their future and then they look over at a public sector worker who has stayed in the same company for 20-30 years and complain that they're getting their agreed pension.
We all had a choice.
el stovey said:
There are plenty of private sector workers still due to get a FS pension.
99% of all private FS pension funds are closed to new members. More than 70% are closed to future accrual from existing members.May people will still be due a FS pension for the peirod before their scheme was closed (including me)
I'm happy for the public sector scheme to remain open to future accrual if the employees were paying the true costs, but they aren't / won't so something else will have to change.
Sidicks
el stovey said:
Paddy_N_Murphy said:
sidicks said:
Quinny said:
Jealousy
Personally, I'm in favour of revisons to public final salary pension schemes as taxpayers are having to pay the unaffordable costs, when the money could be better spent elsewhere.Sidicks
Consider it moving the Goalposts. Roll with the Changes - wyou would have to if it was the private sector.
I find it odd that many people here opt to work for loads of different employers or start their own company or perhaps go contracting or perhaps they haven't saved enough for their future and then they look over at a public sector worker who has stayed in the same company for 20-30 years and complain that they're getting their agreed pension.
We all had a choice.
Work in the public sector with no chance of being made redundant/being sacked/having to work particularly hard/take much personal risk BUT on the flop side not get paid much during your working life, but get a good pension
OR
work privately with increased risk of losing your job, getting pair better than public sector, but have to negotiate your own pension.
The choices now are:
Public sector- as before
Private sector- get shafted every which way, earn less, pensioned less, far greater risk etc etc but STILL pay the same taxes for the public sector as above.
public sector often forgets that its our taxes that pays their pensions!
Quinny said:
KrazyIvan said:
Quinny said:
pugwash4x4 said:
public sector often forgets that its our taxes that pays their pensions!
By all means, keep the pension you were promised - but we shouldn't pay for new ones!
el stovey said:
I don't agree.
Why should people not get the agreed pension they have worked for. Stop it for new joiners or even tinker with the contributions but not end it for current members.
It doesn't seem very fair to me.
It is unaffordable, the bill will double in even the immediate short term, by 2015, let alone the longterm.Why should people not get the agreed pension they have worked for. Stop it for new joiners or even tinker with the contributions but not end it for current members.
It doesn't seem very fair to me.
Public sector workers on final salary pension schemes retiring at 60 will cripple the public finances for years to come. Yes this should have been reformed years ago, but as we face national bankruptcy now is the time for change, before it is too late.
Increase the contribution rate, raise the retirement age, and base it on average, not final, salary.
Even after all that is put in place most private sector workers will still be looking on with envy.
Quinny said:
KrazyIvan said:
Quinny said:
pugwash4x4 said:
public sector often forgets that its our taxes that pays their pensions!
k up, I dont expect you to pay for mine.Quinny said:
S1MMA said:
Quinny said:
sidicks said:
Quinny said:
That's right, I never contributed a penny from my own salary
What is you contribution rate?t?I had a final salary pension scheme (private) with zero contributions to start with, then went to 2%, then 3%, then 5%. But, I'm young, and wasn't going to stay there forever. So you had/have a defined contribution from your salary in the public sector, from when you started?
TheDetailDoctor said:
I can't see what's wrong with FS pensions personally, but perhaps I'm biased.
Where's the pot of money to pay for them?With my private pension, I pay a percentage of my salary in to a pot and so does my employer. When I retire, I can spend that pot (which has been invested with some risk so I can try and increase the meagre sum in the pot, so may be worth more or less than I paid).
Quinny said:
One other thing, some people fail to realise, is that during my and my colleagues employment, the pension scheme was often used as a bargaining tool during pay negotiations...
I can recall quite a few occasions, where the bosses said, we can only give you x% this year, but we'll increase pension benefits by x%...
Maybe they should have given us improved pay instead, but they didn't. So many of us are now benefiting from agreements that took place years and years ago...
The fact that the tax payer has to foot the bill is tough st.... I pay tax on many things that don't benefit me, just like everyone else in the country has to
I think most people have agree that you can keep the pension you agreed with your employer for.I can recall quite a few occasions, where the bosses said, we can only give you x% this year, but we'll increase pension benefits by x%...
Maybe they should have given us improved pay instead, but they didn't. So many of us are now benefiting from agreements that took place years and years ago...
The fact that the tax payer has to foot the bill is tough s
t.... I pay tax on many things that don't benefit me, just like everyone else in the country has toNone of the pro-FS pension group in this thread have come up with a valid reason why new public sector employees should get such a pension...?
el stovey said:
I'm not sure why people on here get so excited at the prospect of someone else having their pension scheme closed.
No one is getting excited about anything.My mother is on a state final salary scheme (teacher).
But the public sector pension schemes are unaffordable in their present form. The Office for Budget Responsibility (OBR) says the taxpayer cost is set to rise from £4bn to £9bn in only five years, and that is only the beginning.
The baby boomers are starting to retire and the accrued pension rights casually granted by successive governments on a pay later basis, have hit the problem that that later date has arrived.
The old days of retiring at 60 on a final salary pension scheme (or earlier in many cases) to spend nearly as long in retirement as you did in work have to end.
This demographic reality was well known by Labour, but they refused to change anything due to their dependence on the public sector unions.
JagLover said:
The old days of retiring at 60 on a final salary pension scheme (or earlier in many cases) to spend nearly as long in retirement as you did in work have to end.
In the old days you died of some horrible lung disease a couple of months after retiring so there was no problem with pensions.JagLover said:
el stovey said:
I'm not sure why people on here get so excited at the prospect of someone else having their pension scheme closed.
No one is getting excited about anything.Every thread we see associated with people having something taken away has a raft of posters who are clearly delighted at the idea of someone having some benefit/allowance/pension that they don't get, taken away.
Every saving cut will delight some posters, not because they are keen to see the deficit reduced but because they are spiteful and enjoy seeing other people's lot diminished.
They justify it by spouting about how their (obviously massive) tax contributions pay for it, "why should I pay for (insert whatever) when I don't get it!" Some people's tax is clearly going a long way.
el stovey said:
They justify it by spouting about how their (obviously massive) tax contributions pay for it, "why should I pay for (insert whatever) when I don't get it!" Some people's tax is clearly going a long way.
Or we are being over-taxed to pay for things that people don't deserve.Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff