Final salary pension schemes should end
Discussion
I find it funny that some of the people on this thread are saying its MY money why should I give it up I worked for it and thats the contract that I signed.
Are the same ones whining on the Bankers Bonus thread saying they should not get their money owed to them due to contracts and they should have a super tax on their bonuses.
Funny people...
Hows about a new pension tax just for final salary pensions so that we can recoup 50% back into the pot, as straight tax to be used for the nation or used to reduce the debt? This would be easy to do after all the super tax was simple to push through and thus reducing the pensions scheme and the liability we have?
Are the same ones whining on the Bankers Bonus thread saying they should not get their money owed to them due to contracts and they should have a super tax on their bonuses.
Funny people...
Hows about a new pension tax just for final salary pensions so that we can recoup 50% back into the pot, as straight tax to be used for the nation or used to reduce the debt? This would be easy to do after all the super tax was simple to push through and thus reducing the pensions scheme and the liability we have?
Quinny said:
I personally couldn't give a toss about what other people have earned, negotiated, been given or whatever...
I do however care, that ordinary workers, who signed contracts in good faith, and then in some cases spent their whole working life, with said company, get what they were promised, and agreed to at the time...
1) Contracts indicate the current terms. There is no reason to expect that these will never change over a 40-year+ working lifetimeI do however care, that ordinary workers, who signed contracts in good faith, and then in some cases spent their whole working life, with said company, get what they were promised, and agreed to at the time...
2) Those people will get the benefits promised and earned to date.
Quinny said:
In many cases, the pension was used as a bargaining tool, to keep certain workers on lower pay...
3) One of the conclusions of the Hutton report is that public secotr workers do not have lower pay than equivalent private sector workers.
Sidicks
el stovey said:
Every saving cut will delight some posters, not because they are keen to see the deficit reduced but because they are spiteful and enjoy seeing other people's lot diminished.
i'm delighted whenevr i see someone making their lot better through hard graft and determination. I don't like being disadvantaged thorugh ridiculous levels of taxation (43% as a total tax take) which alllow a LOT of people a cushy life without having any hard graft or risk. sidicks said:
Quinny said:
I personally couldn't give a toss about what other people have earned, negotiated, been given or whatever...
I do however care, that ordinary workers, who signed contracts in good faith, and then in some cases spent their whole working life, with said company, get what they were promised, and agreed to at the time...
1) Contracts indicate the current terms. There is no reason to expect that these will never change over a 40-year+ working lifetimeI do however care, that ordinary workers, who signed contracts in good faith, and then in some cases spent their whole working life, with said company, get what they were promised, and agreed to at the time...
2) Those people will get the benefits promised and earned to date.
Quinny said:
In many cases, the pension was used as a bargaining tool, to keep certain workers on lower pay...
3) One of the conclusions of the Hutton report is that public secotr workers do not have lower pay than equivalent private sector workers.Sidicks
Public sector used the boom time of the private sector (notice I didnt say banking only) as an excuse to give themselves huge wages and then are now using the Unions with strike action as an excuse to keep on giving better pay when cuts are needed.
Private sector on the other hand already trimmed the fat meaning even less money for the public sector to use, but did this 2 years ago and are now coming out of the other side... Public secotr workers see this in bonuses etc and complain and b
h that why are they getting bonuses when we are losing jobs..your over 2 years behind the private sector.
This issue has to be adressed by everyone and private sector has done their bit and now the public secotr is refusing as its all the private sectors fault and always has been...
pugwash4x4 said:
el stovey said:
Every saving cut will delight some posters, not because they are keen to see the deficit reduced but because they are spiteful and enjoy seeing other people's lot diminished.
i'm delighted whenevr i see someone making their lot better through hard graft and determination. I don't like being disadvantaged thorugh ridiculous levels of taxation (43% as a total tax take) which alllow a LOT of people a cushy life without having any hard graft or risk. el stovey said:
pugwash4x4 said:
el stovey said:
Every saving cut will delight some posters, not because they are keen to see the deficit reduced but because they are spiteful and enjoy seeing other people's lot diminished.
i'm delighted whenevr i see someone making their lot better through hard graft and determination. I don't like being disadvantaged thorugh ridiculous levels of taxation (43% as a total tax take) which alllow a LOT of people a cushy life without having any hard graft or risk. Quinny said:
pugwash4x4 said:
Yes i do- do you understand just how little work the average public sector worker actually does? Not all to be sure, but some of the stuff I've seen beggars belief.
Yeah, those lazy, nurses, coppers, firemen, teachers doctors etc.... bloody spongers the lot of them
'PS needs cutting cause of pen pusher' response = Oh so the nurses, etc eh...
'Final salary cuts' response = Cutting police, etc eh...
'No money in the kitty' response = Cutting police is it, etc eh...
f
k me it gets more use in PH by public sector people than any race cards do... It should be the new 'Is it coz I is frontline init' card...
Dupont666 said:
Quinny said:
pugwash4x4 said:
Yes i do- do you understand just how little work the average public sector worker actually does? Not all to be sure, but some of the stuff I've seen beggars belief.
Yeah, those lazy, nurses, coppers, firemen, teachers doctors etc.... bloody spongers the lot of them'PS needs cutting cause of pen pusher' response = Oh so the nurses, etc eh...
'Final salary cuts' response = Cutting police, etc eh...
'No money in the kitty' response = Cutting police is it, etc eh...
f
k me it gets more use in PH by public sector people than any race cards do... It should be the new 'Is it coz I is frontline init' card...
I'm not sure that equates to the average public sector worker doing little work? I'm sure most large private sector companies have people that avoid work as much as possible too. Not everyone in the private sector is hard working. I know my company has plenty of lazy employees in it.
Quinny said:
el stovey said:
I don't agree.
Why should people not get the agreed pension they have worked for. Stop it for new joiners or even tinker with the contributions but not end it for current members.
It doesn't seem very fair to me.
Quite right... I signed a contract that agreed to certain terms and conditions.... One of those conditions, was that in exchange for my labour, skills, loyalty etc, I would receive a very nice final salary pension...Why should people not get the agreed pension they have worked for. Stop it for new joiners or even tinker with the contributions but not end it for current members.
It doesn't seem very fair to me.
I held up my part of the contract for 25 years...
el stovey said:
I'm not sure that equates to the average public sector worker doing little work? I'm sure most large private sector companies have people that avoid work as much as possible too. Not everyone in the private sector is hard working. I know my company has plenty of lazy employees in it.
As turbobloke pointed out - it's all academic. We simply can't afford to continue with these final salary sxhemes for public sector employees.QED
Sidicks
sidicks said:
el stovey said:
I'm not sure that equates to the average public sector worker doing little work? I'm sure most large private sector companies have people that avoid work as much as possible too. Not everyone in the private sector is hard working. I know my company has plenty of lazy employees in it.
As turbobloke pointed out - it's all academic. We simply can't afford to continue with these final salary sxhemes for public sector employees.QED
Sidicks
Even if the schemes are closed there are still presumably massive payments continued to be made to those people already retired. Or do you want them to have their pension taken away too?
Edited by el stovey on Thursday 7th October 16:47
el stovey said:
Continuing to pay these pensions for current members won't by itself bring in the IMF. It depends on where the government think the priorities lie.
Even if the schemes are closed there are still presumably massive payments to be continue to be made to those people already retired. Or do you want them to have their pension taken away too?
Grow up!!Even if the schemes are closed there are still presumably massive payments to be continue to be made to those people already retired. Or do you want them to have their pension taken away too?
No-one is talking baout taking away accrued rights, just future accruals etc
Quinny said:
robsti said:
Quinny said:
el stovey said:
I don't agree.
Why should people not get the agreed pension they have worked for. Stop it for new joiners or even tinker with the contributions but not end it for current members.
It doesn't seem very fair to me.
Quite right... I signed a contract that agreed to certain terms and conditions.... One of those conditions, was that in exchange for my labour, skills, loyalty etc, I would receive a very nice final salary pension...Why should people not get the agreed pension they have worked for. Stop it for new joiners or even tinker with the contributions but not end it for current members.
It doesn't seem very fair to me.
I held up my part of the contract for 25 years...
Quinny said:
sidicks said:
Quinny said:
That's right, I never contributed a penny from my own salary
What is you contribution rate?If your unions hadn't beeen so greedy this last 13 years of profligate spending could have been curtailed and you could have kept your pensions, but you'd still be earning 20% less than equivalent private sector jobs, not 10% more.
robsti said:
sidicks said:
Quinny said:
I get a pension....one that I contributed to, agreed to and earned..... For those that don't like it TOUGH st
FFS - why are there so many retards on this thread?!tWe are talking about future accrual not existing benefits!!
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