Exciting but somehow sad - saw Baroness Thatcher today

[ali_kat]

Dilligaf10 said:

ClaphamGT3 said:

Mobile Chicane said:

'To whom we all owe so much'?

Please, elucidate.

Do you remember the UK pre-1979?

If the unions have their way it will be making a comeback as well!

We had a recession whilst she was leading, same as this time the Tories are in power. But like this time, hers was started by Labour & she was left to tidy up the mess as best she could, like Cameron & Co now

Mountbatten was a huge error on behalf of the IRA, it cost them a lot of support from inside as well.

[williamp]

plg said:

mel said:

working class said:

AndrewW-G said:

working class said:

So, will she get police protection till the day she dies? Like American presidents do?

they all do, to a greater (blair at a cost to all of us of millions a year) or lesser extent (winky at no doubt much reduced cost, given the amount of time he's been spending in the nut house in Edinburgh)

Why though? What use would Maggie be now to anyone that wished to kidnap her?

What strategic purpose did the murder of Mountbatten serve? The reality is that if someone has given so much to the service of their country (regardless of your political views there is no dening the fact that she worked and gave so much) that they put themselves in ongoing and permanant risk then we as a country owe them a duty of care, there are still many many disidant republicans (and probably a few bitter and twisted ex miners) that would love to get a chance to "slot Maggie" Making sure that she still gets a level of protection is the least we can do.

Indeed. Anyone that serves at that level and gives their country all deserves protection through retirement, regardless of their politics. I wonder if security levels vary per ex PM?
ie Major and Thatcher both have had relatively quiet retirements, presumably needing only minor teams. Blair with his world tours and (higher) recent profile - does he have a bigger team / and hence cost? Does he need to contribute personally if he is choosing to go in harms way? Or do we give extra as a "middle east peace process ambassador"?

Most former Northern ireland secretaries also have this level of cover. Although when Mo Mowlen was ousted by Peter Mandelson to get the credit for her hard work, she was given nothing.,..

[plg]

williamp said:

Most former Northern ireland secretaries also have this level of cover. Although when Mo Mowlen was ousted by Peter Mandelson to get the credit for her hard work, she was given nothing.,..

Indeed. I didn't agree with most of her politics, and she was treated in the most appalling way by the Blair team. She also had a very different style about her which I imagine the Blair team found hard to manage (and good for her, I like politicians with personality)

One quote, "In the same playful mood she once kissed a startled journalist on the lips. "Why did you do that?" he asked. "I've got a cold," she beamed."

(An aside- having just finished the book "GCHQ" I understand that she wasn't much admired by the security services as she had a habit of jeopardising sources - quoting things back in conversations that could only have been picked up by signal intercepts...)

[IforB]

ClaphamGT3 said:

Walking through South Ken today, an XJ8, closely followed by a Range Rover pulled up to the kurb. Protection officers got out of the RR and closed the pavement. Out of the back of the Jaguar got - an extremely frail - Baroness Thatcher. I was less that 3 metres from her as she slowly crossed the pavement to go into a restaurant. It was amazing to see her & she still radiates an amazing presence but she was so frail - it was heart-rending to see someone to whom we all owe so much in such a state; I fear she'll not be with us much longer.

Still, fabulous to have seen her

Edited by ClaphamGT3 on Friday 8th October 01:00

There are many parts of the UK that will be dancing in the streets when she finally croaks. I won't be one of them, but I don't think I'll be even slightly sad when it happens.

[JagLover]

Our greatest post war prime minister, but certainly not perfect.

She ended the days of unionised state owned industries sucking the lifeblood out of the economy, and also the days when income tax rates reached 98%.

[Uhura fighter]

IforB said:

ClaphamGT3 said:

Walking through South Ken today, an XJ8, closely followed by a Range Rover pulled up to the kurb. Protection officers got out of the RR and closed the pavement. Out of the back of the Jaguar got - an extremely frail - Baroness Thatcher. I was less that 3 metres from her as she slowly crossed the pavement to go into a restaurant. It was amazing to see her & she still radiates an amazing presence but she was so frail - it was heart-rending to see someone to whom we all owe so much in such a state; I fear she'll not be with us much longer.

Still, fabulous to have seen her

Edited by ClaphamGT3 on Friday 8th October 01:00

There are many parts of the UK that will be dancing in the streets when she finally croaks. I won't be one of them, but I don't think I'll be even slightly sad when it happens.

Indeed, Would have been a good story if someone had kicked her in the shorpe.

"We all owe so much"

[markh1973]

ali_kat said:

Dilligaf10 said:

ClaphamGT3 said:

Mobile Chicane said:

'To whom we all owe so much'?

Please, elucidate.

Do you remember the UK pre-1979?

If the unions have their way it will be making a comeback as well!

We had a recession whilst she was leading, same as this time the Tories are in power. But like this time, hers was started by Labour & she was left to tidy up the mess as best she could, like Cameron & Co now

Mountbatten was a huge error on behalf of the IRA, it cost them a lot of support from inside as well.

If we're talking about recessions we also had another one wich started under her leadership in 1990 and ended under Major in 1992. I'm not a labour supporter but you would struggle to blame them for that one.

[john_p]

I find it astounding that 20 years on even the sheer mention of her name still brings up bile in people's throats

But still .. anyone who would now dance on her grave has to face the bitter reality: whatever you hate so much that she did, that she changed in the country; it still happened, and you never got the chance to change that.

Even when she does cark it, anyone who celebrates her death has to face the reality - you hate her because she got her way

[Zod]

Not a single Thatcher-hater has ever been able to give me an answer as to how the country would have fared better in the 1980s if Labour had won the 1979 election.

[BOR]

JagLover said:

Our greatest post war prime minister, but certainly not perfect.

She ended the days of unionised state owned industries sucking the lifeblood out of the economy, and also the days when income tax rates reached 98%.

Oh come off it. Even her own party couldn't stomach the devastation that she caused to the country. THEY kicked her out, before the voters got the chance to.

Oh yeah, she was great if you were rich.

[Adrian W]

ClaphamGT3 said:

Mobile Chicane said:

'To whom we all owe so much'?

Please, elucidate.

Do you remember the UK pre-1979?

When we at least had a manufacturing base, and were self sufficient in most things, yes the unions were screwing it up, we had the infrastructure, the expertise and led the world in many technologies, but rather than sort things out and invest in our future she waged war on the unions to the detriment of any thing that stood in her way.

The result in 2010 is that we have nothing, and are totally dependent on China and the low cost regions; unfortunately Blair and co just did the same thing,

If this was 1939 we will all be speaking German in a few years.

We will all end up working in shops and banks; oh hang on a minute too many people now for too few jobs.

[Eric Mc]

BOR said:

JagLover said:

Our greatest post war prime minister, but certainly not perfect.

She ended the days of unionised state owned industries sucking the lifeblood out of the economy, and also the days when income tax rates reached 98%.

Oh come off it. Even her own party couldn't stomach the devastation that she caused to the country. THEY kicked her out, before the voters got the chance to.

Oh yeah, she was great if you were rich.

Define rich.

Many people of my age did well professionally in her era - but nevr got "rich" - just satisfied that hard work and ambition was not penalised too much.

[Uhura fighter]

Eric Mc said:

BOR said:

JagLover said:

Our greatest post war prime minister, but certainly not perfect.

She ended the days of unionised state owned industries sucking the lifeblood out of the economy, and also the days when income tax rates reached 98%.

Oh come off it. Even her own party couldn't stomach the devastation that she caused to the country. THEY kicked her out, before the voters got the chance to.

Oh yeah, she was great if you were rich.

Define rich.

Many people of my age did well professionally in her era - but nevr got "rich" - just satisfied that hard work and ambition was not penalised too much.

The lazy who bought a council house under the "right to own" sure showed ambition.....

[ClaphamGT3]

john_p said:

I find it astounding that 20 years on even the sheer mention of her name still brings up bile in people's throats

This is the ultimate testament to how radical what she did was; sure there will always be the nay-sayers, the serial malcontents & the vocal socialist minority splashing around in their own tank of bitter p*ss but the hard reality is that she brought prosperity hitherto unimaginable to the overwhelming majority of ordinary people in this country, social cohesion and mobility the like of which we haad never seen before and the largest move ever made since the introduction of universal sufferage towards a truly meritocratic society.

[Pupp]

Zod said:

Not a single Thatcher-hater has ever been able to give me an answer as to how the country would have fared better in the 1980s if Labour had won the 1979 election.

It might still have significant steel making capacity?

[voyds9]

JagLover said:

Our greatest post war prime minister, but certainly not perfect.

She ended the days of unionised state owned industries sucking the lifeblood out of the economy, and also the days when income tax rates reached 98%.

She only nominally got rid of the Unions, Slot mouth and Bliar made every worker a one person union. The ability to ask for flexible working, rights to have a say in business policy, rights to time off, guaranteed minimum rate, increased holidays, etc. Now as an employer I have to negotiate with every worker individually on even minor issues

[BOR]

ClaphamGT3 said:

john_p said:

I find it astounding that 20 years on even the sheer mention of her name still brings up bile in people's throats

This is the ultimate testament to how radical what she did was; sure there will always be the nay-sayers, the serial malcontents & the vocal socialist minority splashing around in their own tank of bitter p*ss but the hard reality is that she brought prosperity hitherto unimaginable to the overwhelming majority of ordinary people in this country, social cohesion and mobility the like of which we haad never seen before and the largest move ever made since the introduction of universal sufferage towards a truly meritocratic society.

What ? You're more insane than she is.

How, specifically, did she achieve each of those things in your staggeringly rose-tinted post ?

[madala]

ClaphamGT3 said:

Mobile Chicane said:

'To whom we all owe so much'?

Please, elucidate.

Do you remember the UK pre-1979?

.....I do and it was more than shoite.....

[Uhura fighter]

ClaphamGT3 said:

john_p said:

I find it astounding that 20 years on even the sheer mention of her name still brings up bile in people's throats

This is the ultimate testament to how radical what she did was; sure there will always be the nay-sayers, the serial malcontents & the vocal socialist minority splashing around in their own tank of bitter p*ss but the hard reality is that she brought prosperity hitherto unimaginable to the overwhelming majority of ordinary people in this country, social cohesion and mobility the like of which we haad never seen before and the largest move ever made since the introduction of universal sufferage towards a truly meritocratic society.

Any examples of this? Is how we live now a credit to her?

I was to young to remember and what I do recall from the time was not social cohesion or mobility.

[MikeyT]

The fact are she did a lot for the majority of the working people in this country as she put more diaposable into their pockets. And the better off you were, the MORE better off you became.

But if you were unfortunate enough to be living north of Watford, and have a job in a large nationalised industry, forget it. (although the unions certainly didn't help).

The best thing they could have done with Scargill was to put him in charge of the pits and said: "Ok then Arthur, you make them profitable"

Edited by MikeyT on Friday 8th October 13:04