So much fun to be had with the lefty students...

[ukwill]

http://www.thefootballforum.net/index.php?/forum/1...


take your pick...

[fido]

i'll be starting a thread later on Tuition fees .. expect carnage

[thinfourth2]

To be honest they seem more balanced then here which is mostly raving tory fanboys

[Asterix]

They'll work it out when things like 'life' actually start to affect them.

[ukwill]

thinfourth2 said:

To be honest they seem more balanced then here which is mostly raving tory fanboys realists that don't blame every wrong on the world on Margaret bloody Thatcher

EFA

[pilchardthecat]

ukwill said:

thinfourth2 said:

To be honest they seem more balanced then here which is mostly raving tory fanboys realists that don't blame every wrong on the world on Margaret bloody Thatcher

EFA

It's leftiness that's ruined the Higher Education system

I went to University in the Thatcher years: single parent family, not much money, fees all paid, full grant of about 4.5k. There was a damn sight more social mobility back then than there is now.

[Don]

pilchardthecat said:

ukwill said:

thinfourth2 said:

To be honest they seem more balanced then here which is mostly raving tory fanboys realists that don't blame every wrong on the world on Margaret bloody Thatcher

EFA

It's leftiness that's ruined the Higher Education system

I went to University in the Thatcher years: single parent family, not much money, fees all paid, full grant of about 4.5k. There was a damn sight more social mobility back then than there is now.

..and the reason that was possible was that only the very, very few actually went on to Higher Education. Which meant the tax burden for supporting those very few wasn't as much of a problem.

Now, of course, many more go on. One could argue that this is inappropriate, that the degree courses are not of the same standard and that the gatekeeper exams, the A levels, have been dumbed down to make this possible.

Or you could argue that year on year for thirty years the education system has got magically better.

Or you could argue that year on year for thirty years human beings have been evolving at a rate hitherto unknown to Darwin's science and are smarter.

Which one do we think it is, eh?

There was more social mobility, I think, but remember it was for the very few smart enough to hit Grammar School and A levels and this just wasn't all that many however meritocratic it might have been...

[fido]

pilchardthecat said:

I went to University in the Thatcher years: single parent family, not much money, fees all paid, full grant of about 4.5k. There was a damn sight more social mobility back then than there is now.

Ditto - got £6k grant + fees all paid for an MSc .. the £6k went towards 'transport' if you get my drift. It was hard in those days.

[Shay HTFC]

ukwill said:

thinfourth2 said:

To be honest they seem more balanced then here which is mostly raving tory fanboys realists that don't blame every wrong on the world on Margaret bloody Thatcher

EFA

Are you saying PH isn't mostly raving tory fanboys then? Because it is.

[Bing o]

Shay HTFC said:

ukwill said:

thinfourth2 said:

To be honest they seem more balanced then here which is mostly raving tory fanboys realists that don't blame every wrong on the world on Margaret bloody Thatcher

EFA

Are you saying PH isn't mostly raving tory fanboys then? Because it is.

No, it's generally well educated or independently successful people with life experience. The fact that we happen to be Tory fan boys is because it's a prioven fact that Socialism and New or Old Labour has never worked, and will never work.

[AV12]

The debate is reasonable over there. They have different opinions. So what?

So I'm calling a thread fail

Edited by AV12 on Wednesday 13th October 07:12

[thinfourth2]

Bing o said:

Shay HTFC said:

ukwill said:

thinfourth2 said:

To be honest they seem more balanced then here which is mostly raving tory fanboys realists that don't blame every wrong on the world on Margaret bloody Thatcher

EFA

Are you saying PH isn't mostly raving tory fanboys then? Because it is.

No, it's generally well educated or independently successful people with life experience. The fact that we happen to be Tory fan boys is because it's a prioven fact that Socialism and New or Old Labour has never worked, and will never work.

See utterly perfect demonstration of tory fan boys at work

The only alternative they can see to the tory party is labour

In a tory fan boy mind if you don't like the tories then you must be a 100% commie labour loving idiot

And they wonder why they see bias everywhere they look

[GeraldSmith]

I'm a free market capitalist who believes that opportunity and reward should be available to anyone with the ability and drive to seek them. I believe your background should make no difference to what you are able to achieve in life.

Does that make me a Tory fan boy? It certainly doesn't make me a Labour supporter.

[thinfourth2]

GeraldSmith said:

I'm a free market capitalist who believes that opportunity and reward should be available to anyone with the ability and drive to seek them. I believe your background should make no difference to what you are able to achieve in life.

Does that make me a Tory fan boy? It certainly doesn't make me a Labour supporter.

If you belive only the tory party will produce that and everything the tory party does is wonderful then you are leaning towards fanboyism

[Bing o]

thinfourth2 said:

See utterly perfect demonstration of tory fan boys at work

The only alternative they can see to the tory party is labour

In a tory fan boy mind if you don't like the tories then you must be a 100% commie labour loving idiot

And they wonder why they see bias everywhere they look

Well, who else is there? We have essentially a 2 party system which ironically chucked the beardy sandle wearer's into coalition. As I said, ANYONE with half a brain can see that Labour consistently and completely fk up the country.

(And to add that I found the forum linked in the OP a lot more reasonable then NP+E in most of it's views.)

[turbobloke]

It's nothing to do with fanboyism.

Far more often it's Labour supporters who carry some sort of blind allegiance, even after two successive national trainwrecks in which the country has been nearly bankrupted to no purpose whatsoever (what purpose could there be). Gamely hanging on to the idea that leftist politicians can do anything but damage is nonsensical.

It's everything to do with evidence based preference.

[GeraldSmith]

thinfourth2 said:

GeraldSmith said:

I'm a free market capitalist who believes that opportunity and reward should be available to anyone with the ability and drive to seek them. I believe your background should make no difference to what you are able to achieve in life.

Does that make me a Tory fan boy? It certainly doesn't make me a Labour supporter.

If you belive only the tory party will produce that and everything the tory party does is wonderful then you are leaning towards fanboyism

A fanboy, to my mind, is someone who is biased towards something in an unquestioning way, someone who will agree with something because of it's source and not on it's merits. So in this context a Tory fanboy would agree with anything the Conservatives come up with, regardless of what it was.

I have to say that fanboy-ism is a trait I'd associate more with labour supporters, there is a big rump of 'working class' who will only vote labour no matter how stupid the policies and vapid the politicians. People who will mutter about Margaret Thatcher despite her being out of office for 20 years now.

Personally I don't agree with everything the Conservatives say and do, I'm unconvinced about these university funding ideas, for example. But at the moment they represent the least worst option amongst the main parties.

Edited by GeraldSmith on Wednesday 13th October 08:35

[turbobloke]

GeraldSmith said:

thinfourth2 said:

GeraldSmith said:

I'm a free market capitalist who believes that opportunity and reward should be available to anyone with the ability and drive to seek them. I believe your background should make no difference to what you are able to achieve in life.

Does that make me a Tory fan boy? It certainly doesn't make me a Labour supporter.

If you belive only the tory party will produce that and everything the tory party does is wonderful then you are leaning towards fanboyism

A fanboy, to my mind, is someone who is biased towards something in an unquestioning way, someone who will agree with something because of it's source and not on it's merits. So in this context a Tory fanboy would agree with anything the Conservatives come up with, regardless of what it was.

I have to say that fanboy-ism is a trait I'd associate more with labour supporters, there is a big rump of 'working class' who will only vote labour no matter how stupid the policies and vapid the politicians. People who will mutter about Margaret Thatcher despite her being out of office for 20 years now.

Personally I don't agree with everything the Conservatives say and do, I'm unconvinced about these university funding ideas, for example. But at the moment the represent the least worst option amongst the main parties.

Yes by far.

[Engineer1]

pilchardthecat said:

ukwill said:

thinfourth2 said:

To be honest they seem more balanced then here which is mostly raving tory fanboys realists that don't blame every wrong on the world on Margaret bloody Thatcher

EFA

It's leftiness that's ruined the Higher Education system

I went to University in the Thatcher years: single parent family, not much money, fees all paid, full grant of about 4.5k. There was a damn sight more social mobility back then than there is now.

Labour's 50% to go to Uni target is the problem, lots of courses lots of students then a recession comes along and more people look to retrain or wait out the recession at the Student loan company's expense. Personally if the system is changed such that Uni's can charge what they like then after a couple of cohorts the system will bed down a uni that charges £30K will give you a damn good chance of getting a £60K job. It just needs society and banks to treat student debt as a a fact of life and almost discount its existence when calculating people's ability to borrow, hell if the pricing works right the greatest debt may also give the best credit rating as you studied a good course at a good Uni.

[cymtriks]

Engineer1 said:

pilchardthecat said:

ukwill said:

thinfourth2 said:

To be honest they seem more balanced then here which is mostly raving tory fanboys realists that don't blame every wrong on the world on Margaret bloody Thatcher

EFA

It's leftiness that's ruined the Higher Education system

I went to University in the Thatcher years: single parent family, not much money, fees all paid, full grant of about 4.5k. There was a damn sight more social mobility back then than there is now.

Labour's 50% to go to Uni target is the problem, lots of courses lots of students then a recession comes along and more people look to retrain or wait out the recession at the Student loan company's expense. Personally if the system is changed such that Uni's can charge what they like then after a couple of cohorts the system will bed down a uni that charges £30K will give you a damn good chance of getting a £60K job. It just needs society and banks to treat student debt as a a fact of life and almost discount its existence when calculating people's ability to borrow, hell if the pricing works right the greatest debt may also give the best credit rating as you studied a good course at a good Uni.

Alternatively the Tories could do the utterly obvious thing and restore grants, cut the numbers in education and end up with a realistic and affordable system just like we used to have.

At the moment we are drowning our brightest in debt to hide youth unemployment while crowing about how wonderful everything is now that so many are getting such amazing results.