Ambulance tea break death
Discussion
BrassMan said:
Johnnytheboy said:
I certainly wouldn't sit drinking tea & let people die over a pay rise.
That depends on the call they received. If it was something like:Caller said:
She's in her early 30s, has chest pains and feels rough.
then she will have been an extremely low priority. He could have said that he was part way through his tea and the controller will have gone on to someone else. The way a lot of posters have been reacting you'd think that he stepped over someone bleeding to death to get an extra doughnut.paper said:
Her partner, Bobby Taylor, 29, spent nearly half an hour trying to resuscitate her when he found her not breathing at their home in Stewart Place, Tomintoul, on October 16.
http://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/Article.aspx/1994419She was (also certainly) dead when she was found. If would not have made any difference if he had attended or not: however the Technician would have been told 'cardiac arrest' and that the p/t was not breathing and non-responsive, the top level of job possible.
JumboBeef said:
paper said:
Her partner, Bobby Taylor, 29, spent nearly half an hour trying to resuscitate her when he found her not breathing at their home in Stewart Place, Tomintoul, on October 16.
http://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/Article.aspx/1994419She was (also certainly) dead when she was found. If would not have made any difference if he had attended or not: however the Technician would have been told 'cardiac arrest' and that the p/t was not breathing and non-responsive, the top level of job possible.
JumboBeef said:
BrassMan said:
Johnnytheboy said:
I certainly wouldn't sit drinking tea & let people die over a pay rise.
That depends on the call they received. If it was something like:Caller said:
She's in her early 30s, has chest pains and feels rough.
then she will have been an extremely low priority. He could have said that he was part way through his tea and the controller will have gone on to someone else. The way a lot of posters have been reacting you'd think that he stepped over someone bleeding to death to get an extra doughnut.paper said:
Her partner, Bobby Taylor, 29, spent nearly half an hour trying to resuscitate her when he found her not breathing at their home in Stewart Place, Tomintoul, on October 16.
http://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/Article.aspx/1994419She was (also certainly) dead when she was found. If would not have made any difference if he had attended or not: however the Technician would have been told 'cardiac arrest' and that the p/t was not breathing and non-responsive, the top level of job possible.
Lastly, if he was following protocol, then it is wrong and needs changing.
when i had my serious road accident, a local paramedic, who had finished his shift and was at home was listening to the '999 radio'.
he heard the 'shout' for my accident and knew that the ambulance would take 20-30 min to arrive, so got in his car and drove to the scene as he knew he was only 10 minutes away.
he was able to assist me, calm various family members down, and sort out and prioritise things for when the abulance, police and fire turned up.
i dont even rememeber the guy, but id sure like to shake his hand and thank him for his actions.
he heard the 'shout' for my accident and knew that the ambulance would take 20-30 min to arrive, so got in his car and drove to the scene as he knew he was only 10 minutes away.
he was able to assist me, calm various family members down, and sort out and prioritise things for when the abulance, police and fire turned up.
i dont even rememeber the guy, but id sure like to shake his hand and thank him for his actions.
'Rest break' death ambulance technician keeps job
An ambulance technician who chose not to respond to what proved to be a fatal heart attack when he was on a tea break has been told he can keep his job.
The technician was 800 yards away when 33-year-old Mandy Mathieson had a cardiac arrest in Tomintoul, Moray.
However, the call was instead answered by paramedics based 15 miles away in Grantown-on-Spey.
The technician has been ordered to undergo training. Ms Mathieson's uncle said: "They can't teach compassion."
The technician was suspended while an investigation was carried out.
The 999 call had been received at about midday on 16 October.
An air ambulance helicopter was also dispatched and reached the village almost 30 minutes after the call.
However, Ms Mathieson was declared dead at the scene.
'Abiding by rules'
A spokesman for the Scottish Ambulance Service said it had completed its investigation.
He said: "The ambulance technician involved will undertake further training and pass an evaluation before being allowed to return to operational duties.
"The chairman and chief executive will meet with the community in Tomintoul on 28 January."
Ms Mathieson's uncle, Charlie Skene, 52, said the family was not surprised by the ambulance service decision, although it was disappointed.
He said: "He was only abiding by their rules but what are they going to teach him?
"Surely they can't teach compassion, so what are they going to give him lessons in?
"That they are employing him shows you a lot about the people at the top. They're happy having that kind of people working for them."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-north-east-o...
He was NOT on a 'tea break', he was OFF DUTY!
An ambulance technician who chose not to respond to what proved to be a fatal heart attack when he was on a tea break has been told he can keep his job.
The technician was 800 yards away when 33-year-old Mandy Mathieson had a cardiac arrest in Tomintoul, Moray.
However, the call was instead answered by paramedics based 15 miles away in Grantown-on-Spey.
The technician has been ordered to undergo training. Ms Mathieson's uncle said: "They can't teach compassion."
The technician was suspended while an investigation was carried out.
The 999 call had been received at about midday on 16 October.
An air ambulance helicopter was also dispatched and reached the village almost 30 minutes after the call.
However, Ms Mathieson was declared dead at the scene.
'Abiding by rules'
A spokesman for the Scottish Ambulance Service said it had completed its investigation.
He said: "The ambulance technician involved will undertake further training and pass an evaluation before being allowed to return to operational duties.
"The chairman and chief executive will meet with the community in Tomintoul on 28 January."
Ms Mathieson's uncle, Charlie Skene, 52, said the family was not surprised by the ambulance service decision, although it was disappointed.
He said: "He was only abiding by their rules but what are they going to teach him?
"Surely they can't teach compassion, so what are they going to give him lessons in?
"That they are employing him shows you a lot about the people at the top. They're happy having that kind of people working for them."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-north-east-o...
He was NOT on a 'tea break', he was OFF DUTY!
At least it's an uncommon example of a service dealing with an issue in-house & coming up with the only acceptable verdict (ie not guilty -as he was off duty, operating entirely within the protected meal break protocol designated by his own Trust).
Had he been a Paramedic, one suspects they'd have referred it to the HPC & they would likely have had his balls on a plate through his 'failure to demonstrate an adequate level of compassion thereby impairing his fitness to practice', or something along those lines....
However, this does not make it any easier for the family who are understandably aggrieved.
Had he been a Paramedic, one suspects they'd have referred it to the HPC & they would likely have had his balls on a plate through his 'failure to demonstrate an adequate level of compassion thereby impairing his fitness to practice', or something along those lines....
However, this does not make it any easier for the family who are understandably aggrieved.
JumboBeef said:
He was NOT on a 'tea break', he was OFF DUTY!
However, contacting a member of staff who is off duty to attend a serious case shows what they expected. They should have followed through and sacked him. If they were happy for him to ignore calls on his break they should never have contacted him, the fact they did, shows (to me anyway) that they expected some action.freecar said:
JumboBeef said:
He was NOT on a 'tea break', he was OFF DUTY!
However, contacting a member of staff who is off duty to attend a serious case shows what they expected. They should have followed through and sacked him. If they were happy for him to ignore calls on his break they should never have contacted him, the fact they did, shows (to me anyway) that they expected some action.Whether it was morally the right choice or whether you agree with him or not, (which I don't), is not the issue, the fact remains he broke no rules. As has been emphasised earlier in this thread, it is the current system that is flawed & creates the circumstances under which such a cluster-f
k can happen.maddog993 said:
freecar said:
JumboBeef said:
He was NOT on a 'tea break', he was OFF DUTY!
However, contacting a member of staff who is off duty to attend a serious case shows what they expected. They should have followed through and sacked him. If they were happy for him to ignore calls on his break they should never have contacted him, the fact they did, shows (to me anyway) that they expected some action.Whether it was morally the right choice or whether you agree with him or not, (which I don't), is not the issue, the fact remains he broke no rules. As has been emphasised earlier in this thread, it is the current system that is flawed & creates the circumstances under which such a cluster-f
k can happen.I just wouldn't have a tea break while somebody was dying. I've done jobs where nobody would be hurt by a break but been denied one. I would never be such a jobsworth so as to endanger somebodies life, if I had a problem with the amount of work compared to the number of breaks I would go elsewhere and change career.
If you're such a
that you'll let somebody die while you have a sandwich then you're in the wrong job. I don't give two fks about missing breaks I've missed tons of breaks in my life for things far less serious than a dying woman. I've worked all day without a rest in many jobs, it's not the end of the world, except fot this woman who no longer exists because of this man's actions.maddog993 said:
They could not 'expect' anything from him as under the terms of the uninterrupted meal break policy- he did not even have to be on station, or even answer the phone. Just to re-emphasise one more time, he was legitimately off duty in an unpaid capacity at that point in time.
It's a fair point. His colleague seemed pretty pissed about him not turning out, but she'd gone home during her break.Edited by Deva Link on Saturday 8th January 16:14
maddog993 said:
freecar said:
JumboBeef said:
He was NOT on a 'tea break', he was OFF DUTY!
However, contacting a member of staff who is off duty to attend a serious case shows what they expected. They should have followed through and sacked him. If they were happy for him to ignore calls on his break they should never have contacted him, the fact they did, shows (to me anyway) that they expected some action.Whether it was morally the right choice or whether you agree with him or not, (which I don't), is not the issue, the fact remains he broke no rules. As has been emphasised earlier in this thread, it is the current system that is flawed & creates the circumstances under which such a cluster-f
k can happen.Though I dare say the unions will object.
The issue is really that the ambulance cover wasn`t good enough trying to bully a person who isn`t on duty into doing a job is low. The NHS is understaffed in many areas my wife gets calls to go into work on her days off because they are short staffed. Unforunatley i suspect we will get more such situations given an understaffed units.
Johnnytheboy said:
Quite agree - the rules are wrong and should be changed so this can never happen again.
Though I dare say the unions will object.
It seems that most ambulance authorities bought this breaktime callout capability off their staff for a standard amount, but the one involved here offered a much lower amount so many staff didn't take it up.Though I dare say the unions will object.
freecar said:
maddog993 said:
freecar said:
JumboBeef said:
He was NOT on a 'tea break', he was OFF DUTY!
However, contacting a member of staff who is off duty to attend a serious case shows what they expected. They should have followed through and sacked him. If they were happy for him to ignore calls on his break they should never have contacted him, the fact they did, shows (to me anyway) that they expected some action.Whether it was morally the right choice or whether you agree with him or not, (which I don't), is not the issue, the fact remains he broke no rules. As has been emphasised earlier in this thread, it is the current system that is flawed & creates the circumstances under which such a cluster-f
k can happen.I just wouldn't have a tea break while somebody was dying. I've done jobs where nobody would be hurt by a break but been denied one. I would never be such a jobsworth so as to endanger somebodies life, if I had a problem with the amount of work compared to the number of breaks I would go elsewhere and change career.
If you're such a
that you'll let somebody die while you have a sandwich then you're in the wrong job. I don't give two fks about missing breaks I've missed tons of breaks in my life for things far less serious than a dying woman. I've worked all day without a rest in many jobs, it's not the end of the world, except fot this woman who no longer exists because of this man's actions.Burrito said:
I'm sitting on the fence with this one. But just to adjust the scenario slightly, how would you feel if the technician was on his day off, sat on his sofa but still only 300 yards away and they called his mobile asking him to attend?
When it might save someone's life? I'm quite comfortable with that.Johnnytheboy said:
Burrito said:
I'm sitting on the fence with this one. But just to adjust the scenario slightly, how would you feel if the technician was on his day off, sat on his sofa but still only 300 yards away and they called his mobile asking him to attend?
When it might save someone's life? I'm quite comfortable with that.The issue is that the system is f
ked, if a system can only function if people do more than they are employed to do and are regularly expected to work over and above what they have been contracted to do. There are 100's if not 1000's of daft things in the NHS that mean all sorts of front line employees get the guilt trip laid on them and they stay late, come in early, do extra days as overtime etc all so their unit/ department can function. Things like grading of hospitals so certain patients may be taken to the nearest hospital then transferred if their condition changes, guess who does the transfers, this means an ambulance can be transferring patients long distances, despite the government saying patients could choose the hospital they want to be treated in.
The real issue is that the NHS need to do a serious and honest review of staffing and cover, if they are relying on good will then the goodwill will dry up, you can't demand more and more from people and treat them as though they where overpaid.
Johnnytheboy said:
Quite agree - the rules are wrong and should be changed so this can never happen again.
Though I dare say the unions will object.
so what is your proposal given the following Though I dare say the unions will object.
- the Law requires you to have a 20 minute break after 6 hours of work.
- Breaks are unpaid ... and the previous approach tried in the NHS for such scenarios ends up being even more of a farce ( the original 'new deal' break agreement for junior doctors where any interuption during a break meant the break restarted ...
The fact the bile and anger is taken out on the crew rather than the fact the service considered 'appropriate' cover to be a resource 15 miles away ... would there be so much bile if the area had gone uncovered because the crew were iengaged in an out of area transfer ?
How many of the bilious and angry # hang em and flog 'ems' would lower themselves to become involved in volunteer provision to support the Ambulance service which many of the English services have via community responders, and the support provided to the service by St John and the Red Cross ...
We as a nation demand the NHS treats us and that Ambulances get us to hospital as quickly as possible and as soon after we ring as possible, then we decide this is expensive and money needs saving but no one wants to lose the service in their area or pay more. Until we accept the NHS is unsustainable in its current form we will keep finding problems, people complain drugs aren't available to them because they are expensive well what do you want cutting so those drugs can be made available?
Engineer1 said:
The issue is really that the ambulance cover wasn`t good enough trying to bully a person who isn`t on duty into doing a job is low. The NHS is understaffed in many areas my wife gets calls to go into work on her days off because they are short staffed. Unforunatley i suspect we will get more such situations given an understaffed units.
^^this is 100% accurate, where staff, are being manipulated by management.Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff