Same Sex Parenting - For it or against it?
Poll: Same Sex Parenting - For it or against it?
Total Members Polled: 482
Discussion
rb5230 said:
CommanderJameson said:
So what's the problem? Why do you even care?
Because i dont believe it is fair on the child. And like i said neither you or i can know either way for sure and only time will tell.CommanderJameson said:
What is unfair about it? As for your second sentence, I refer you to the Science Bits linked elsewhere in the thread.
Whats unfair about it? Are you being serious? The fact that the child is unlikely to ever have the chance to live a normal life.
The fact that it will never have the chance to have a mother other than David Furnish, and not due to misfortune but due to the fact that is has a couple of wealthy weirdos as parents.
The fact that throughout its entire life it will be subject to ridicule because he is a test tube baby with 2 dads.
And as for your science bit... i am unaware that any celebrity gay dads have ever had ivf to have a baby, so would love to know how they come across any figures for that scenario. And also science/studies are often proven wrong many years after they have been documented.
rb5230 said:
CommanderJameson said:
What is unfair about it? As for your second sentence, I refer you to the Science Bits linked elsewhere in the thread.
Whats unfair about it? Are you being serious? The fact that the child is unlikely to ever have the chance to live a normal life.
The fact that it will never have the chance to have a mother other than David Furnish, and not due to misfortune but due to the fact that is has a couple of wealthy weirdos as parents.
The fact that throughout its entire life it will be subject to ridicule because he is a test tube baby with 2 dads.
And as for your science bit... i am unaware that any celebrity gay dads have ever had ivf to have a baby, so would love to know how they come across any figures for that scenario. And also science/studies are often proven wrong many years after they have been documented.
Having never observed same sex parenting it's not possible to be sure. I have seen some very poor parenting from heterosexual contra-sex couples, that has had a massively detrimental effect on the children in question. I have seen lots of great conta-sex couples who live for their children and provided great homes for them.
This doesn't prove that same-sex couple make good or even bad parents it just shows that some people simply don't make great parents, whereas others excel. I'd honestly expect a same-sex couple to be the same - some will be great, others less so.
The bleeding heart that I generally have makes me feel that if a same-sex couple wants to adopt then they should be able to... Who knows, they may well provide an equally good or even better home that heterosexual couple? I doubt I'll ever fully understand what drives people to be gay or lesbian but I can understand people wanting to be parents and sympathise with this wish. This is subjective, however, which means read it with a massive pinch of salt.
This doesn't prove that same-sex couple make good or even bad parents it just shows that some people simply don't make great parents, whereas others excel. I'd honestly expect a same-sex couple to be the same - some will be great, others less so.
The bleeding heart that I generally have makes me feel that if a same-sex couple wants to adopt then they should be able to... Who knows, they may well provide an equally good or even better home that heterosexual couple? I doubt I'll ever fully understand what drives people to be gay or lesbian but I can understand people wanting to be parents and sympathise with this wish. This is subjective, however, which means read it with a massive pinch of salt.
rb5230 said:
CommanderJameson said:
What is unfair about it? As for your second sentence, I refer you to the Science Bits linked elsewhere in the thread.
Whats unfair about it? Are you being serious? The fact that the child is unlikely to ever have the chance to live a normal life.
The fact that it will never have the chance to have a mother other than David Furnish, and not due to misfortune but due to the fact that is has a couple of wealthy weirdos as parents.
The fact that throughout its entire life it will be subject to ridicule because he is a test tube baby with 2 dads.
And as for your science bit... i am unaware that any celebrity gay dads have ever had ivf to have a baby, so would love to know how they come across any figures for that scenario. And also science/studies are often proven wrong many years after they have been documented.
We can have our dreams of 2 competant parents, one of each sex but this is not in reality the norm in the UK, or much of the West.
The actual reality is that there is no norm and so long as the kid grows up in a loving and free family then it will be a very lucky child.
B3njamin said:
I doubt I'll ever fully understand what drives people to be gay or lesbian but I can understand people wanting to be parents and sympathise with this wish. This is subjective, however, which means read it with a massive pinch of salt.
That's simple, ask yourself what drives you to be heterosexual and you will have the answer.DonkeyApple said:
The actual reality is that there is no norm and so long as the kid grows up in a loving and free family then it will be a very lucky child.
Agreed. But there are people out there that may not make things easyhttp://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1342710/Jo...
rb5230 said:
Do you even have anything to add or are you just here to throw compliments around?
Hey I found out years ago that it's pointless trying to argue with bigots so I won't even try. I do agree with one point you raised though, a child raised by a same sex couple will have difficulty - because of blinkered fools such as yourself. But who knows for sure, because this is surely the first child ever to have been raised by a family where one or both of the parents are gay.deeps said:
B3njamin said:
I doubt I'll ever fully understand what drives people to be gay or lesbian but I can understand people wanting to be parents and sympathise with this wish. This is subjective, however, which means read it with a massive pinch of salt.
That's simple, ask yourself what drives you to be heterosexual and you will have the answer.The kid could grow up having a good life (normal? what's bloody normal anymore in this crazy mixed up world?).
The money's there, but that won't stop kids being kids.
Whatever nickname or non-nickname Zachary Jackson Levon Furnish-John gets at school, the one thing that will happen for absolute sure, is:
'Hey Zach, is that your grandad come to collect you?'
The money's there, but that won't stop kids being kids.
Whatever nickname or non-nickname Zachary Jackson Levon Furnish-John gets at school, the one thing that will happen for absolute sure, is:
'Hey Zach, is that your grandad come to collect you?'
B3njamin said:
The simplest questions are sometimes quite hard to answer. Maybe I am heterosexual because my brain chemistry and genes say so, maybe I am because I was brought up being told that heterosexuality was the right way to be and seeing it around me, maybe because of the anti-homosexual views people hold I was put off, maybe it's just like flipping a coin and random chance... I don't think it's that easy to answer and in any event I struggle finding an adequate reply.
Gay people are brought up in the same circumstances as you were, surrounded by the same anti-homosexual views, it doesn't turn them straight. I don't believe men can be put off fancying women because of what other people say or do or tell them. Brain chemistry is the answer, but it is fascinating as to why nature produces 2-3% of the population as homosexuals who will never reproduce, if that's supposed to be the meaning of life.I'd imagine that Baby P would have had a hell of a better existance if he had 2 loving same sex parents looking after him compared to the 2 'natural' f
ktards he was forced to be with.
As long as a child is loved and cared for by people that give a toss about them, i'd have a hard time arguing any different.
ktards he was forced to be with.As long as a child is loved and cared for by people that give a toss about them, i'd have a hard time arguing any different.
Swilly said:
Busa_Rush said:
captainzep said:
wiggy001 said:
Apologies Kermit, the sarcasm comment was aimed at the previous poster with nothing useful to add, not you.
OK.Here's something new to add.
From the fairly conservative, capital punishment favouring Florida courts (Re: Gill case Sept 2010)
"Based on the robust nature of the evidence available in the field, this Court is satisfied that the issue is so far beyond dispute that it would be irrational to hold otherwise; the best interests of children are not preserved by prohibiting homosexual adoption."
http://www.3dca.flcourts.org/Opinions/3D08-3044.pd...
More context on pages 16-17
Nature requires mammals to have a male and female to reproduce. The male and female have different characteristics in life . . . which makes them better suited to particular tasks . . . there are always exceptions but on the whole, a mum and a dad are required for reproduction and are the best fit for bringing up children. Physiology makes it so . . . not opinion.
Same sex couples bringing up children may be allowed in law but it's never going to work as well as a male and a female. Good luck to them, they'll need it . . . it's always harder to swim against the tide than with it, and by tide I mean nature, not opinion.
I would more readily point a finger at the substance and quality of parenting as a contributor to a good upbringing rather than the sexual orientation of the parents.
captainzep said:
Busa_Rush said:
"beyond dispute" . . . like man made climate change ? The science is settled . . . ?
Bad example.MMGW is a busy and vigourous scientific debate with evidence from both sides. Hence the degree of contention.
Same-sex parenting research simply doesn't have the same weight of evidence back and forth to support opposing arguments. Hence the unusually unreserved conclusions of the cited Florida Court and the vast majority of others.
Additionally the time periods are at odds. MMGW is considered over very long periods of time, -centuries and millenia. Longitudinal studies regarding kids only last 15-20 years until early adulthood. Same-sex parenting research has been going on since 1975.
The only real studies cited by anti-same-sex parenting lobbies use research to show the disadvantages of single parenting, -then use this to argue that 2 biological parents is the optimum. -Much to the chagrin of the initial researchers usually.
Edited by captainzep on Friday 31st December 15:31
Same sex advocates have yet to provide any proof that a same sex "family" is as good as a male/female partnership. There's a good reason why a man and a man or a woman and a woman can't create a baby . . . it's not a sustainable or desirable situation for the child.
Busa_Rush said:
Same sex advocates have yet to provide any proof that a same sex "family" is as good as a male/female partnership. There's a good reason why a man and a man or a woman and a woman can't create a baby . . . it's not a sustainable or desirable situation for the child.
If you'll allow me to suggest that you mean "evidence" when you say "proof" (as "proof" is something to do with drink or mathematics), then you're simply incorrect on this point. There's plenty of linked evidence in this thread to support the assertion that gays make decent parents.
deeps said:
B3njamin said:
The simplest questions are sometimes quite hard to answer. Maybe I am heterosexual because my brain chemistry and genes say so, maybe I am because I was brought up being told that heterosexuality was the right way to be and seeing it around me, maybe because of the anti-homosexual views people hold I was put off, maybe it's just like flipping a coin and random chance... I don't think it's that easy to answer and in any event I struggle finding an adequate reply.
Gay people are brought up in the same circumstances as you were, surrounded by the same anti-homosexual views, it doesn't turn them straight. I don't believe men can be put off fancying women because of what other people say or do or tell them. Brain chemistry is the answer, but it is fascinating as to why nature produces 2-3% of the population as homosexuals who will never reproduce, if that's supposed to be the meaning of life.Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff