Rant: social engineering and its failings.
Discussion
Mattt said:
Labour's great social experiment - and we're left with the consequences of the failure.
And they still live in a deluded world where they would call it a success and that the Coalition has it all wrong.As mentioned in a different thread - 2011 is going to be a bumpy ride as the fall-out from Labours miss-management comes home to roost.
cymtriks said:
Me:
What about the existing estates in nearby larger towns? These are just a few miles away and on a bus route.
Her:
But what about being near to your family, obviously I wouldn't understand the close ties in a small village but if I did then it would be obvious that a 20 year old young man couldn't possibly live in the next town, so far far away from his mum, brothers and sisters.
If you are scraping by poor having family close can be the difference between staying above water and not. As family members can provide support and help when you need it, having family round the corner means you can get some food dropped in when you are short till payday etc.What about the existing estates in nearby larger towns? These are just a few miles away and on a bus route.
Her:
But what about being near to your family, obviously I wouldn't understand the close ties in a small village but if I did then it would be obvious that a 20 year old young man couldn't possibly live in the next town, so far far away from his mum, brothers and sisters.
The issue is that the social housing is the same as the expensive housing on an exclusive estate, being the council lot on an expensive estate will rub both sides up and breed resentment on both sides. The poor resenting the stuff the rich have worked for and the rich resenting the poor for what they get for free.
off_again said:
And they still live in a deluded world where they would call it a success and that the Coalition has it all wrong
They would consider this a total success - by worsening your friend's parents' life, they have reduced the amount of inequality in society. It's called 'levelling down', and it's absolutely central to what they're about.
They did this with the Hempstead area of Gloucester. 10 years ago, it was a really nice place to live, but soon after a huge council housing/housing association project was started.
10 years on, the area isn't so nice, and a lot of private houses are now up for sale, so, we are told have had enough on being burgled and not feeling safe even walking their dog. I don't know if this is real or imagined, but that's the general 'vibe' we get from our old neighbours.
10 years on, the area isn't so nice, and a lot of private houses are now up for sale, so, we are told have had enough on being burgled and not feeling safe even walking their dog. I don't know if this is real or imagined, but that's the general 'vibe' we get from our old neighbours.
cymtriks said:
rover 623gsi said:
eight million people in the UK live in social housing
JAT
Which shows how much they need to cut it back.JAT
Not long ago I met a woman who worked in social housing. I asked her if she thought there were too many places available as 8 million seems a very big number.
Her:
What about young people living in pretty villages, we urgently need to build council estates in little villages otherwise where will they live?
Me:
What about the existing estates in nearby larger towns? These are just a few miles away and on a bus route.
Her:
But what about being near to your family, obviously I wouldn't understand the close ties in a small village but if I did then it would be obvious that a 20 year old young man couldn't possibly live in the next town, so far far away from his mum, brothers and sisters.
Me:
Surely that must be a very low priority? It isn't that far away and there doesn't seem to be anything urgent about the case?
Her:
Everyone should be allowed to live in a state paid for house anywhere they want, rural social housing is urgently needed to ensure this, you can't expect young people to have to travel to visit their relatives and friends, they have a right to stay in their home village.
That is the attitude we need to get rid of.
Good luck.
As for social housing in rural areas - Britains small towns and villages are dying and forcing people to move away from areas where they grew up only excaberates the problem.
Mattt said:
Labour's great social experiment - and we're left with the consequences of the failure.
They've been up to it since the end of WWII. The great trick in London was to fill in areas of bomb damage in middle class streets with council housing. With the higher density, it helped them to gerrymander council wards for themselves.
rover 623gsi said:
The introduction of social housing and the mass house-building programme carried post-war is one of Britain's most under-rated achievements. It should rank right up there with the creation of the NHS and state education.
Yes, back in the days everyone was encouraged to have aspirations, now it, and the rest of the benefit system is a poorly disguised and barely functioning attempt to stop the idle b
ds from causing too much trouble.f
k em I say, I have had enough of working like a tt and having my quality of life reduced.The problem in this country is that we do not have enough pissed off tax paying working people. Much more of this sort of yoghurt knitting social inclusion s
t and the bottom of the pyramid WILL say enough is enough, its already starting with the likes of the BNP gaining credibility.Labour and the unions are simply a cancer for this country, they destroy it and then we have to vote in the Tories to rebuild the country.
The trouble with the Tories is that after sorting out the country, they get bored and start having sex with rent boys, other MP's wives and end up getting themselves found wearing stockings choking on half a satsuma with a poppers capsule wedged in it. And that just doesn't go down well with the people who voted them in.
The trouble with the Tories is that after sorting out the country, they get bored and start having sex with rent boys, other MP's wives and end up getting themselves found wearing stockings choking on half a satsuma with a poppers capsule wedged in it. And that just doesn't go down well with the people who voted them in.
Zaxxon said:
Labour and the unions are simply a cancer for this country, they destroy it and then we have to vote in the Tories to rebuild the country.
The trouble with the Tories is that after sorting out the country, they get bored and start having sex with rent boys, other MP's wives and end up getting themselves found wearing stockings choking on half a satsuma with a poppers capsule wedged in it. And that just doesn't go down well with the people who voted them in.
The trouble with the Tories is that after sorting out the country, they get bored and start having sex with rent boys, other MP's wives and end up getting themselves found wearing stockings choking on half a satsuma with a poppers capsule wedged in it. And that just doesn't go down well with the people who voted them in.
You're new here but I suspect you'll fit right in. Welcome. 
Not sure if its fitting on this thread but my BIG hate is Motobility Cars and allowances.Now firstly for people who have genuine Motobility problems they are a wonderful idea but I know several couples who are not immobile but have new cars handed to them courtesy of the tax payer.
I have a couple of friends in their 70's one couple both worked in low paid work but were sensible and saved a bit and have small pensions. The other couple had their own business went bust a couple of times and generally pissed their lives away.The first couple get sweet FA help but the latter have a wonderful flat and a new Car plus allsorts of allowances how can this possibly be a good thing.Rant over.
I have a couple of friends in their 70's one couple both worked in low paid work but were sensible and saved a bit and have small pensions. The other couple had their own business went bust a couple of times and generally pissed their lives away.The first couple get sweet FA help but the latter have a wonderful flat and a new Car plus allsorts of allowances how can this possibly be a good thing.Rant over.
Engineer1 said:
cymtriks said:
Me:
What about the existing estates in nearby larger towns? These are just a few miles away and on a bus route.
Her:
But what about being near to your family, obviously I wouldn't understand the close ties in a small village but if I did then it would be obvious that a 20 year old young man couldn't possibly live in the next town, so far far away from his mum, brothers and sisters.
If you are scraping by poor having family close can be the difference between staying above water and not. As family members can provide support and help when you need it, having family round the corner means you can get some food dropped in when you are short till payday etc.What about the existing estates in nearby larger towns? These are just a few miles away and on a bus route.
Her:
But what about being near to your family, obviously I wouldn't understand the close ties in a small village but if I did then it would be obvious that a 20 year old young man couldn't possibly live in the next town, so far far away from his mum, brothers and sisters.
The issue is that the social housing is the same as the expensive housing on an exclusive estate, being the council lot on an expensive estate will rub both sides up and breed resentment on both sides. The poor resenting the stuff the rich have worked for and the rich resenting the poor for what they get for free.
The attitude is wrong.
rover 623gsi said:
cymtriks said:
rover 623gsi said:
eight million people in the UK live in social housing
JAT
Which shows how much they need to cut it back.JAT
Not long ago I met a woman who worked in social housing. I asked her if she thought there were too many places available as 8 million seems a very big number.
Her:
What about young people living in pretty villages, we urgently need to build council estates in little villages otherwise where will they live?
Me:
What about the existing estates in nearby larger towns? These are just a few miles away and on a bus route.
Her:
But what about being near to your family, obviously I wouldn't understand the close ties in a small village but if I did then it would be obvious that a 20 year old young man couldn't possibly live in the next town, so far far away from his mum, brothers and sisters.
Me:
Surely that must be a very low priority? It isn't that far away and there doesn't seem to be anything urgent about the case?
Her:
Everyone should be allowed to live in a state paid for house anywhere they want, rural social housing is urgently needed to ensure this, you can't expect young people to have to travel to visit their relatives and friends, they have a right to stay in their home village.
That is the attitude we need to get rid of.
Good luck.
rover 623gsi said:
As for social housing in rural areas - Britains small towns and villages are dying and forcing people to move away from areas where they grew up only excaberates the problem.
My wife spent many years by the seaside, so did I. I also spent a lot of my early years in a rural area.Would you like to pay for us to have a nice rural seaside cottage, Devon or Cornwall would be nice, after all us leaving this kind of area has depleted them so it would only improve things for your taxes to fund our cottage?
Alternatively, this is just an idea, we could pay our own way unless we are actually too ill, old or in the middle of a disaster to provide for ourselves.
Personally I think that the problem is excaberated by people thinking that they cannot possibly hop on a bus to see their folks so the rest of us must pay for them to live in a picturesque village.
Sticks. said:
Mattt said:
Labour's great social experiment - and we're left with the consequences of the failure.
My local council is entirely Cons and Lib but has been doing this for years. How does that make it a Labour idea then?eccles said:
Sticks. said:
Mattt said:
Labour's great social experiment - and we're left with the consequences of the failure.
My local council is entirely Cons and Lib but has been doing this for years. How does that make it a Labour idea then?
cymtriks said:
My wife spent many years by the seaside, so did I. I also spent a lot of my early years in a rural area.
Would you like to pay for us to have a nice rural seaside cottage, Devon or Cornwall would be nice, after all us leaving this kind of area has depleted them so it would only improve things for your taxes to fund our cottage?
Alternatively, this is just an idea, we could pay our own way unless we are actually too ill, old or in the middle of a disaster to provide for ourselves.
Personally I think that the problem is excaberated by people thinking that they cannot possibly hop on a bus to see their folks so the rest of us must pay for them to live in a picturesque village.
I work for a housing association - we own and manage approx 5,500 properties, mainly in rural areas. Last year we opened 12 properties for rent in a small village - it took five years from when we first identified the site to when the first residents moved in such are the obstacles faced by housebuilders. The price of housing in rural areas relative to wages is even worse than in urban areas and if we want rural areas to remain as vibrant and viable communities then we need more, not less, social housing. IMHO, of course.Would you like to pay for us to have a nice rural seaside cottage, Devon or Cornwall would be nice, after all us leaving this kind of area has depleted them so it would only improve things for your taxes to fund our cottage?
Alternatively, this is just an idea, we could pay our own way unless we are actually too ill, old or in the middle of a disaster to provide for ourselves.
Personally I think that the problem is excaberated by people thinking that they cannot possibly hop on a bus to see their folks so the rest of us must pay for them to live in a picturesque village.
Is that the period of 10 years post 1997 when Labour blamed everything on the previous Tory government?
Then it was realised that Labour had been in power for 10 years and had not improved life one bit, had got involved in 2 wars that they could not justify being part of (at least Maggie fought off an invasion.....and won).
The general populace slowly began to realise that thanks to Brown, we had no gold left, no money and a bleak future.
Blair and Brown couldn't use the 'but it was maggie's fault' card. Blair realised that the country no longer believed his lies and scarpered. Brown was left and couldn't paint over the cracks with a winning cheesy smile, because he didn't have one.
For what it's worth, I don't think the coalition will be able to turn things around, it's too far gone, Labour has sunk this country and the bankers have stolen all the life rafts.
Then it was realised that Labour had been in power for 10 years and had not improved life one bit, had got involved in 2 wars that they could not justify being part of (at least Maggie fought off an invasion.....and won).
The general populace slowly began to realise that thanks to Brown, we had no gold left, no money and a bleak future.
Blair and Brown couldn't use the 'but it was maggie's fault' card. Blair realised that the country no longer believed his lies and scarpered. Brown was left and couldn't paint over the cracks with a winning cheesy smile, because he didn't have one.
For what it's worth, I don't think the coalition will be able to turn things around, it's too far gone, Labour has sunk this country and the bankers have stolen all the life rafts.
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