Riots at HMP Ford
Discussion
WhoseGeneration said:
carreauchompeur said:
WhoseGeneration said:
Whatever, the poor and increasingly so, taxpayers will foot the bill for rebuilding and the extra time the perpetrators will receive.
b
ks if we're paying for another 10 pool tables!!carreauchompeur said:
Oh, I agree, however that really would take the piss!
Come on, you know how prisons work.Only with the "consent" of the inmates.
Meaning, to varying levels, diversionary facilities.
Remembering the plethora of organisations and lawyers watching and ready to use legislation, again, mainly, at taxpayers' expense.
A failed system, from whichever "side" one views it.
Jasandjules said:
I never understand how these situations are allowed to get this far out of control.
You'd want the added costs of "intervention squads" on permanent standby, at every establishment, to render that impossible.It's down to numbers and how quickly a situation can escalate, especially if there's planning behind it.
WhoseGeneration said:
Jasandjules said:
I never understand how these situations are allowed to get this far out of control.
You'd want the added costs of "intervention squads" on permanent standby, at every establishment, to render that impossible.It's down to numbers and how quickly a situation can escalate, especially if there's planning behind it.
Magnetic boots and explosive collars?
Kaboom!
WhoseGeneration said:
Jasandjules said:
I never understand how these situations are allowed to get this far out of control.
You'd want the added costs of "intervention squads" on permanent standby, at every establishment, to render that impossible.It's down to numbers and how quickly a situation can escalate, especially if there's planning behind it.
whoami said:
WhoseGeneration said:
Jasandjules said:
I never understand how these situations are allowed to get this far out of control.
You'd want the added costs of "intervention squads" on permanent standby, at every establishment, to render that impossible.It's down to numbers and how quickly a situation can escalate, especially if there's planning behind it.
whoami said:
Surely there is a happy medium between having 2 members of staff to control hundreds of criminals and having "intervention squads" on standby?
No, there is not.The only "control" ability a PO has, as standard, is to appeal to an inmate to behave in an acceptable manner or go on report.
POs are, no doubt, trained in how to determine when a situation is getting out of hand but probably not to the depth a psychologist will be.
Perhaps we should have 24 hours monitoring of all wings in prisons by psychologists?
You then have to consider the responsibility of the Prison Service to it's employees, it cannot expect them to enter any situation without the necessary equipment to deal with it.
It's the many laws covering this that determine response.
Force, even in a prison riot, has to be appropriate.
The Courts, considering legislation in place, are the final arbiters.
Edited by WhoseGeneration on Saturday 1st January 23:26
WhoseGeneration said:
whoami said:
Surely there is a happy medium between having 2 members of staff to control hundreds of criminals and having "intervention squads" on standby?
No, there is not.The only "control" ability a PO has, as standard, is to appeal to an inmate to behave in an acceptable manner or go on report.
POs are, no doubt, trained in how to determine when a situation is getting out of hand but probably not to the depth a psychologist will be.
Perhaps we should have 24 hours monitoring of all wings in prisons by psychologists?
You then have to consider the responsibility of the Prison Service to it's employees, it cannot expect them to enter any situation without the necessary equipment to deal with it.
It's the many laws covering this that determine response.
Force, even in a prison riot has to be appropiate.
The Courts, considering legislation in place, are the final arbiters.
whoami said:
WhoseGeneration said:
whoami said:
Surely there is a happy medium between having 2 members of staff to control hundreds of criminals and having "intervention squads" on standby?
No, there is not.The only "control" ability a PO has, as standard, is to appeal to an inmate to behave in an acceptable manner or go on report.
POs are, no doubt, trained in how to determine when a situation is getting out of hand but probably not to the depth a psychologist will be.
Perhaps we should have 24 hours monitoring of all wings in prisons by psychologists?
You then have to consider the responsibility of the Prison Service to it's employees, it cannot expect them to enter any situation without the necessary equipment to deal with it.
It's the many laws covering this that determine response.
Force, even in a prison riot has to be appropiate.
The Courts, considering legislation in place, are the final arbiters.
WhoseGeneration said:
whoami said:
Maybe we should just have 2 staff at all prisons then?
Yup, one on the "in" gate, one on the "out" gate.All problems solved.
I'm just trying to explain the complexities involved here.
whoami said:
I understand the complexities but don't agree that more staff would not help.
Sorry for being somewhat terse, it's just that I cannot see any solution to this situation and the Prison Service in general.Apart from a one to one solution, with vastly improved education services.
The costs for this would be too much, of course.
Even then, I suspect recidivism would be rife.
It's all, basically, "firefighting".
Very much like the bombing of Dresden, it's a bloody shame all around for everyone. I don't mean, incidentally, that the bombing of Dresden is equivalent to this - and this is quite hard to get accross in a sober manner, but to be absolutely clear, there's almost certainly no justification for this, whilst Dresden there was, and they are not morally equivilant at all... but what I mean is... well, it's just a shame, isn't it? For everyone.
Somewhatfoolish said:
Very much like the bombing of Dresden, it's a bloody shame all around for everyone. I don't mean, incidentally, that the bombing of Dresden is equivalent to this - and this is quite hard to get accross in a sober manner, but to be absolutely clear, there's almost certainly no justification for this, whilst Dresden there was, and they are not morally equivilant at all... but what I mean is... well, it's just a shame, isn't it? For everyone.
Marvellous work 
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