Euro stands 20% chance of survival
Discussion
BeeRoad said:
Dave Angel said:
DSM2 said:
frosted said:
The EU hasn't been mismanaged , the banks have been mismanaged , I'm sure there's a difference although I'm struggling to find it .
I work in with many eastern European people and they all come here to work to pay off their debts for building worthless houses , chevrolette cars and those all so important kitchen appliances which they been told will make their lives much easier .
Now , it seems that keeping up with the jones next door is far more important over there than here , you could well be a farmer living off the fat of the land yet still drive a brand new passat/French car on credit and a dishwater even though they don't have water supplies . I kid you not !
You know those pesky 3d tv's , it turns out that in Bulgaria they sold out 10000 units in 1 day at 3k each , even thou they have no compatible media .
The only reason where are in this mess is because if a government would have tried to intervene in the way banks lend , everyone and I mean you would have commented on bow we are turning into a nany state and we should let markets / banks regulate themselves
So the banks will be left with homes that are worthless and Germany France and the UK will have to pay for everything .
Happy New Year
Could you repost this when you are sober, when it might be readable?I work in with many eastern European people and they all come here to work to pay off their debts for building worthless houses , chevrolette cars and those all so important kitchen appliances which they been told will make their lives much easier .
Now , it seems that keeping up with the jones next door is far more important over there than here , you could well be a farmer living off the fat of the land yet still drive a brand new passat/French car on credit and a dishwater even though they don't have water supplies . I kid you not !
You know those pesky 3d tv's , it turns out that in Bulgaria they sold out 10000 units in 1 day at 3k each , even thou they have no compatible media .
The only reason where are in this mess is because if a government would have tried to intervene in the way banks lend , everyone and I mean you would have commented on bow we are turning into a nany state and we should let markets / banks regulate themselves
So the banks will be left with homes that are worthless and Germany France and the UK will have to pay for everything .
Happy New Year
Class post!!
WhoseGeneration said:
davepoth said:
Of course Estonia wants into the Euro, it's now got a financial cushion the size of Germany.
We await, with baited breath, a German politician who promises to "save" that country from the iniquitous obligations of the past.There'll be one waiting for the most opportune moment.
frosted said:
Maybe it's because I'm not a Tory puppet and I am able to use my brain if I need to
What have the tories got to do with the universally acknowledged truth that the EU is appallingly managed? You do know they haven't been able to submit accounts since god was a boy don't you?BeeRoad said:
frosted said:
Maybe it's because I'm not a Tory puppet and I am able to use my brain if I need to
What have the tories got to do with the universally acknowledged truth that the EU is appallingly managed? You do know they haven't been able to submit accounts since god was a boy don't you?
The whole EU experiment has been a complete f
k up mismanaged by unelected idiots.The only thing we have going for us is the Pound.
Edited by odyssey2200 on Saturday 1st January 23:00
BeeRoad said:
frosted said:
Maybe it's because I'm not a Tory puppet and I am able to use my brain if I need to
What have the tories got to do with the universally acknowledged truth that the EU is appallingly managed? You do know they haven't been able to submit accounts since god was a boy don't you?I am talking about the EU not being in control of the banks which have been lending money to anyone without due diligence , you are talking about EU politicians who have wasted lets say a billion pounds in 10 years compared to 100's of billions that governments have to put in banks so they dont go to the wall
Edited by frosted on Saturday 1st January 23:09
frosted said:
BeeRoad said:
frosted said:
Maybe it's because I'm not a Tory puppet and I am able to use my brain if I need to
What have the tories got to do with the universally acknowledged truth that the EU is appallingly managed? You do know they haven't been able to submit accounts since god was a boy don't you?frosted said:
By who exactly ?
Auditors are usually considerd a resonable indication of an organisation's adherence to the laws and conventions of it's constitution.Of course, some organisations dismiss "troublesome" auditors.
Then appoint a politician to "clean up".
Who, then, doesn't.
Yup, it's all "democratic".
Just face the truth, if you ran any SME in the UK as the EU runs itself, you'd have HMRC on your back permanently.
WhoseGeneration said:
frosted said:
By who exactly ?
Auditors are usually considerd a resonable indication of an organisation's adherence to the laws and conventions of it's constitution.Of course, some organisations dismiss "troublesome" auditors.
Then appoint a politician to "clean up".
Who, then, doesn't.
Yup, it's all "democratic".
Just face the truth, if you ran any SME in the UK as the EU runs itself, you'd have HMRC on your back permanently.
Is it 'cos he is ginger....? ----->
mybrainhurts said:
Why are you backing off naming the Welsh Windbag, Neil Kinnock..?
Is it 'cos he is ginger....? ----->
Because it matters not which, just that it's a politician, rather than one truly qualified.Is it 'cos he is ginger....? ----->
Until sufficient numbers are prepared to storm the EU Parliament buildings, much as the Berlin Wall was, nowt will change.
The cabal of the politicians really have, at the moment, it all sown up.
To the extent of underwriting, it would seem, all sovereign debts.
"Democratically" passed down to their respective taxpayers.
TVR Moneypit said:
odyssey2200 said:
BeeRoad said:
frosted said:
Maybe it's because I'm not a Tory puppet and I am able to use my brain if I need to
What have the tories got to do with the universally acknowledged truth that the EU is appallingly managed? You do know they haven't been able to submit accounts since god was a boy don't you?The whole EU experiment has been a complete f
k up mismanaged by unelected idiots.The only thing we have going for us is the Pound.
If anything goes wrong in Politics or if all else fails...
Blame Maggie!
20% chance of survival, my arse. The Euro will survive. It is conceivable, though pretty unlikely, that some of the weakest of the current eurozone nations will have to withdraw. Even in the domesday scenario that Spain defaults and no rescue plan is put in place leaving the entire currency on the point of collapse, that won't cause Germany to withdraw; Spain will be booted out first.
And we shouldn't underestimate just how far nations will go to avoid that fate, because whatever the price of staying in, it will be less painful than the consequences of getting chucked out.
None of the recent crises in the eurozone have anything much to do with the Euro. Greece's crisis is a fiscal problem ... state spending is way out of kilter with tax revenue. That would have happened just as easily outside the eurozone as within it.
Similarly a bankrupt banking sector has sod all to do with the Eurozone. Ireland is in the st because its banks blew themselves up financing a property market bubble to such an extent that the state can't afford to bail them out. That's got sod all to do with membership of the Euro. The UK and the USA came close enough to managing the same trick without being in the eurozone, and plenty of eurozone members didn't have these problems.
Monetary policy is a technical matter ... get it right and you won't really notice it, get it wrong and you can stuff things up badly. Monetary policy is the freedom to bugger things up. It's got sod all to do with political theories or policy, hence why every sane nation on the planet leaves monetary policy in the hands of an independent central bank.
It is easy to get carried away with the benefits of an independent monetary policy, but the benefits are 90% an illusion. Look how highly correlated interest rates are across all the major currencies. The reality is that they don't move independently of each other ... growth, inflation, rates are largely a global phenomenon - they are outside the control of any one nation, particularly the smaller ones. The freedom to competitively devalue your currency is not a freedom worth having - it can never be more than a short term "help" at the expense of inflation in the medium term and lower growth, plus you condemn yourself to paying a perpetual risk premium to compensate investors for the risk that you might devalue.
So given the current economic crises in Europe have little to do with the eurozone, given that there's limited benefit from having an independent monetary policy anyway, why do people think this will lead to a collapse of the Euro itself?
And we shouldn't underestimate just how far nations will go to avoid that fate, because whatever the price of staying in, it will be less painful than the consequences of getting chucked out.
None of the recent crises in the eurozone have anything much to do with the Euro. Greece's crisis is a fiscal problem ... state spending is way out of kilter with tax revenue. That would have happened just as easily outside the eurozone as within it.
Similarly a bankrupt banking sector has sod all to do with the Eurozone. Ireland is in the s
t because its banks blew themselves up financing a property market bubble to such an extent that the state can't afford to bail them out. That's got sod all to do with membership of the Euro. The UK and the USA came close enough to managing the same trick without being in the eurozone, and plenty of eurozone members didn't have these problems.Monetary policy is a technical matter ... get it right and you won't really notice it, get it wrong and you can stuff things up badly. Monetary policy is the freedom to bugger things up. It's got sod all to do with political theories or policy, hence why every sane nation on the planet leaves monetary policy in the hands of an independent central bank.
It is easy to get carried away with the benefits of an independent monetary policy, but the benefits are 90% an illusion. Look how highly correlated interest rates are across all the major currencies. The reality is that they don't move independently of each other ... growth, inflation, rates are largely a global phenomenon - they are outside the control of any one nation, particularly the smaller ones. The freedom to competitively devalue your currency is not a freedom worth having - it can never be more than a short term "help" at the expense of inflation in the medium term and lower growth, plus you condemn yourself to paying a perpetual risk premium to compensate investors for the risk that you might devalue.
So given the current economic crises in Europe have little to do with the eurozone, given that there's limited benefit from having an independent monetary policy anyway, why do people think this will lead to a collapse of the Euro itself?
ATG said:
20% chance of survival, my arse. The Euro will survive. It is conceivable, though pretty unlikely, that some of the weakest of the current eurozone nations will have to withdraw. Even in the domesday scenario that Spain defaults and no rescue plan is put in place leaving the entire currency on the point of collapse, that won't cause Germany to withdraw; Spain will be booted out first.
And we shouldn't underestimate just how far nations will go to avoid that fate, because whatever the price of staying in, it will be less painful than the consequences of getting chucked out.
None of the recent crises in the eurozone have anything much to do with the Euro. Greece's crisis is a fiscal problem ... state spending is way out of kilter with tax revenue. That would have happened just as easily outside the eurozone as within it.
Similarly a bankrupt banking sector has sod all to do with the Eurozone. Ireland is in the st because its banks blew themselves up financing a property market bubble to such an extent that the state can't afford to bail them out. That's got sod all to do with membership of the Euro. The UK and the USA came close enough to managing the same trick without being in the eurozone, and plenty of eurozone members didn't have these problems.
Monetary policy is a technical matter ... get it right and you won't really notice it, get it wrong and you can stuff things up badly. Monetary policy is the freedom to bugger things up. It's got sod all to do with political theories or policy, hence why every sane nation on the planet leaves monetary policy in the hands of an independent central bank.
It is easy to get carried away with the benefits of an independent monetary policy, but the benefits are 90% an illusion. Look how highly correlated interest rates are across all the major currencies. The reality is that they don't move independently of each other ... growth, inflation, rates are largely a global phenomenon - they are outside the control of any one nation, particularly the smaller ones. The freedom to competitively devalue your currency is not a freedom worth having - it can never be more than a short term "help" at the expense of inflation in the medium term and lower growth, plus you condemn yourself to paying a perpetual risk premium to compensate investors for the risk that you might devalue.
So given the current economic crises in Europe have little to do with the eurozone, given that there's limited benefit from having an independent monetary policy anyway, why do people think this will lead to a collapse of the Euro itself?
You'll be welcoming the UN Dollar then and the World Union of Nations?And we shouldn't underestimate just how far nations will go to avoid that fate, because whatever the price of staying in, it will be less painful than the consequences of getting chucked out.
None of the recent crises in the eurozone have anything much to do with the Euro. Greece's crisis is a fiscal problem ... state spending is way out of kilter with tax revenue. That would have happened just as easily outside the eurozone as within it.
Similarly a bankrupt banking sector has sod all to do with the Eurozone. Ireland is in the s
t because its banks blew themselves up financing a property market bubble to such an extent that the state can't afford to bail them out. That's got sod all to do with membership of the Euro. The UK and the USA came close enough to managing the same trick without being in the eurozone, and plenty of eurozone members didn't have these problems.Monetary policy is a technical matter ... get it right and you won't really notice it, get it wrong and you can stuff things up badly. Monetary policy is the freedom to bugger things up. It's got sod all to do with political theories or policy, hence why every sane nation on the planet leaves monetary policy in the hands of an independent central bank.
It is easy to get carried away with the benefits of an independent monetary policy, but the benefits are 90% an illusion. Look how highly correlated interest rates are across all the major currencies. The reality is that they don't move independently of each other ... growth, inflation, rates are largely a global phenomenon - they are outside the control of any one nation, particularly the smaller ones. The freedom to competitively devalue your currency is not a freedom worth having - it can never be more than a short term "help" at the expense of inflation in the medium term and lower growth, plus you condemn yourself to paying a perpetual risk premium to compensate investors for the risk that you might devalue.
So given the current economic crises in Europe have little to do with the eurozone, given that there's limited benefit from having an independent monetary policy anyway, why do people think this will lead to a collapse of the Euro itself?
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