How many laws do we need?

[purplepolarbear]

On this forum many of us think that we need fewer laws and that the state should intervene less in people's lives.

This got me thinking where do you think the line should be drawn, and which of the following statements would you agree with (assuming all involved are over 18 and consent) and which of these activities do you think the state should prohibit or regulate and why? - for the record I wouldn't do any of them

1. It should be legal to ride a motorcycle without a helmet.

2. It should be legal to employ someone on £1 per hour.

3. It should be legal to smoke cannabis.

4. It should be legal to lend someone £100 at 1000% interest, repayable over a year.

5. It should be legal for two men to have anal sex.

6. It should be legal to say "no blacks" when advertising for a job.

7. It should be legal to employ someone with a contract that does not pay sick pay, holiday pay and can be terminated without notice.

8. It should be legal to hunt foxes with hounds.

9. It should be legal to stage a dog fight.

10. It should be legal (for someone with no medical/pharmaceutical qualifications) to sell someone a drug that is currently prescription only.

11. It should be legal to possess an automatic rifle.

12. It should be legal to walk around a public place naked.

13. It should be legal to stage a bare knuckle boxing match.

14. It should be legal to wear a t-shirt in a public place saying "f..k the police" (spelt out in full).

16. It should be legal to pay another person for sex.

17. It should be legal for the owner of a private cafe to allow customers to smoke in it.

18. It should be legal to wear a t shirt saying "islam is evil".

19. It should be legal to eat the meat of a dog.

20. It should be legal to drive a Ssangyong Rodius in a public place

[Dangerous2]

1 law.

do whatever you want as long as you don't harm other people.

[Ozzie Osmond]

purplepolarbear said:

14. It should be legal to wear a t-shirt in a public place saying "f..k the police" (spelt out in full).

Number 14 seems to have fallen at the first hurdle!

And you missed out the big one. How come two blokes can get married, gay adoption is allowed, I can have as many mistresses as I like, I can father children by as many women as I like....

.... but I'm only allowed one wife?

[crankedup]

purplepolarbear said:

On this forum many of us think that we need fewer laws and that the state should intervene less in people's lives.

This got me thinking where do you think the line should be drawn, and which of the following statements would you agree with (assuming all involved are over 18 and consent) and which of these activities do you think the state should prohibit or regulate and why? - for the record I wouldn't do any of them

1. It should be legal to ride a motorcycle without a helmet.

2. It should be legal to employ someone on £1 per hour.

3. It should be legal to smoke cannabis.

4. It should be legal to lend someone £100 at 1000% interest, repayable over a year.

5. It should be legal for two men to have anal sex.

6. It should be legal to say "no blacks" when advertising for a job.

7. It should be legal to employ someone with a contract that does not pay sick pay, holiday pay and can be terminated without notice.

8. It should be legal to hunt foxes with hounds.

9. It should be legal to stage a dog fight.

10. It should be legal (for someone with no medical/pharmaceutical qualifications) to sell someone a drug that is currently prescription only.

11. It should be legal to possess an automatic rifle.

12. It should be legal to walk around a public place naked.

13. It should be legal to stage a bare knuckle boxing match.

14. It should be legal to wear a t-shirt in a public place saying "f..k the police" (spelt out in full).

16. It should be legal to pay another person for sex.

17. It should be legal for the owner of a private cafe to allow customers to smoke in it.

18. It should be legal to wear a t shirt saying "islam is evil".

19. It should be legal to eat the meat of a dog.

20. It should be legal to drive a Ssangyong Rodius in a public place

1. Disagree, saw too many bikers killed with head injuries following RTA's in the 1960's
2. Disagree, slave trade was abolished a long time ago.
3. Agree, within private dwellings with owners consent.
4. Disagree, the Local Government should offer loans to those who qualify.
5. Don't even want to think about it.
6. Disagree, why would anyone want to place such an ad'.
7. Disagree with exploitation
8. Only with the consent of the fox
9. Only with consent of the dogs
10 Disagree, quality control and all that.
11 - 20 Disagree.

We need a new law that nullifies ALL safe Political seats at elections.

[EDLT]

Dangerous2 said:

1 law.

do whatever you want as long as you don't harm other people.

But then you have to define harm (physical, psychological, financial), and to what level of suffering you can cause before breaking the law - can I tell someone to fk off, or will that hurt their feelings too much? Then you have to define other people can businesses screw each other over, what if their employees lose their job as a result?

Then you would need some independent way of enforcing the law and guidelines on how to punish criminals, which would need to be paid for with taxes. Of course, since collecting taxes would cause financial harm to people it would break the law, meaning no enforcement is possible so we'd be stuck with mob rule.

Yay.

[Larry Dickman]

With maybe the exception to dog fighting I'd pretty much scrap them all.

[Randy Winkman]

Dangerous2 said:

1 law.

do whatever you want as long as you don't harm other people.

The courts would be busy.

[Mojooo]

It IS legal to lend someone £100 with 1000% interest - there is no law against it AFAIK

There are just laws to say it must be documented in a certain way.

[Jasandjules]

Dangerous2 said:

1 law.

do whatever you want as long as you don't harm other people.

Pretty much what was posited a few hundred years ago by (IMHO) a wise man.

[purplepolarbear]

Mojooo said:

It IS legal to lend someone £100 with 1000% interest - there is no law against it AFAIK

There are just laws to say it must be documented in a certain way.

I should have been clearer - some of these are legal, some legal with restrictions and some not legal at the moment - the question is should they be illegal (or legal with restrictions).

Interesting that one poster thinks they should pretty much be all illegal and one that they should be mainly legal.

[Spiritual_Beggar]

crankedup said:

1. Disagree, saw too many bikers killed with head injuries following RTA's in the 1960's
2. Disagree, slave trade was abolished a long time ago.
4. Disagree, the Local Government should offer loans to those who qualify.

Just taken these as an example.....


Why do you disagree with those statements?


Bearing in mind no-one is forced to work for £1 an hour. If someone decides to accept that amount of pay...isn't that their prerogative? Good luck to an employer offering that amount...I don't thnk the que of applicants will be too long. The same applies for wearing helmets; It's their life.......their choice.......what difference does it make to anyone else?



You see this is the VERY problem with things the way they are atm. Rather than letting peeople form their own opinions....we're now told what's right and wrong!

If I want to ride around on a bike without a helmet....who the hell has the right to tell me otherwise (unless I'm a kid and my parents are sill responsible for me)?


Yes, advice people about risks, etc....but don't criminalise people for their stupidity! Who does it help!

Edited by Spiritual_Beggar on Sunday 2nd January 18:12

[172ff]

Dangerous2 said:

1 law.

do whatever you want as long as you don't harm other people.

Do you want to define 'harm'? Oh, and whilst you're at it you better define 'other people'?

[Puggit]

All you need, apparently

[Eric Mc]

Ozzie Osmond said:

purplepolarbear said:

14. It should be legal to wear a t-shirt in a public place saying "f..k the police" (spelt out in full).

Number 14 seems to have fallen at the first hurdle!

And you missed out the big one. How come two blokes can get married, gay adoption is allowed, I can have as many mistresses as I like, I can father children by as many women as I like....

.... but I'm only allowed one wife?

Gay people can only have one civil partnership at a time - so what's the difference there?

[Bibbs]

Dangerous2 said:

1 law.

do whatever you want as long as you don't harm other people.

Agreed. I call it my "Don't be a dick" law.

[Bibbs]

Puggit said:

All you need, apparently

The first 5 are a bit st aren't they?

[spud989]

Spiritual_Beggar said:

Bearing in mind no-one is forced to work for £1 an hour.

Are you really that naive?

Take your standard pit village, somewhere where the mine was responsible for most of the area's employment. What would have happened if the owners decided that all jobs were to be on a £1/hour salary. Do you think an entire community can suddenly up sticks and move.

Modern day comparison: take a 'sink estate', somewhere where unemployment is high and oppoortunities very limited. What happens if the local 6 shops (the ones you get all in a row near flats) suddenly decide that all workers' contracts are to be £1/hour. They'd either all jump straight on the dole, or they'd be forced to work and carry on because there's nothing else.

Next week from Spiritual_Beggar: why can't prostitutes pay for their drugs using other means?

[Mojooo]

I am sure the minimum wage argument debate can (and no doubt has) have an entire thread of its own.

Although people may not work for £1 an hour I think they may stoop to £3 - which in my view is unacceptable.

If we didn't have benefits or a minimum wage law then I think we would have lots of people working for such low wages.

I think the point of the minimum wage tradnscends free market economics and comes down to a moral thing.

The other issue is that the current minimum wage is bareley enough to have a reasonable quality of life for some people (i.e those that live alone) - some argue it should be even higher!

[purplepolarbear]

Mojooo said:

I am sure the minimum wage argument debate can (and no doubt has) have an entire thread of its own.

Although people may not work for £1 an hour I think they may stoop to £3 - which in my view is unacceptable.

If we didn't have benefits or a minimum wage law then I think we would have lots of people working for such low wages.

I think the point of the minimum wage tradnscends free market economics and comes down to a moral thing.

The other issue is that the current minimum wage is bareley enough to have a reasonable quality of life for some people (i.e those that live alone) - some argue it should be even higher!

What if I have a marginal business and if I pay people £3/hour it's profitable but any more than this it isn't viable. Should I employ people at this rate or not at all?

[Mojooo]

purplepolarbear said:

Mojooo said:

I am sure the minimum wage argument debate can (and no doubt has) have an entire thread of its own.

Although people may not work for £1 an hour I think they may stoop to £3 - which in my view is unacceptable.

If we didn't have benefits or a minimum wage law then I think we would have lots of people working for such low wages.

I think the point of the minimum wage tradnscends free market economics and comes down to a moral thing.

The other issue is that the current minimum wage is bareley enough to have a reasonable quality of life for some people (i.e those that live alone) - some argue it should be even higher!

What if I have a marginal business and if I pay people £3/hour it's profitable but any more than this it isn't viable. Should I employ people at this rate or not at all?

The cost to employ someone at a minimum rate should be seen as a cost that has a minimum value - so if you cannot afford to make a profit at £4/hour thats your problem.