Another American shooting incident.

[thehawk]

968 said:

elster said:

968 said:

Muntu said:

Wadeski said:

the American right has got wayyyyyy to cozy with the crazies. I'm not surprised this has happened, sadly.

He appears to be a Leftie. Favourite video is the burning of a US flag on his youtube account.

How do you know what his political persuasions are?

One of his favourite books on facebook was listed as mein Kampf.

And the other the communist manifesto. So both ends of the political spectrum represented. It's irrelevant, however, other than for fanboys on both sides to try and shamelessly gain some higher ground over their opposite number at the expense of this poor woman and the 6 dead around her including a child. The most relevant issue that we can be certain of with this chap is that he is mentally ill and I would suggest anyone advocating or sympathising with the attempted murder of any politician may have a problem too.

Mugabe is a politician.

[tinman0]

jeff m said:

Have you noticed no actual Americans have joined this thread...

Sunday morning, and when you posted it was only 10am ET? Give them a chance!

[968]

thehawk said:

968 said:

elster said:

968 said:

Muntu said:

Wadeski said:

the American right has got wayyyyyy to cozy with the crazies. I'm not surprised this has happened, sadly.

He appears to be a Leftie. Favourite video is the burning of a US flag on his youtube account.

How do you know what his political persuasions are?

One of his favourite books on facebook was listed as mein Kampf.

And the other the communist manifesto. So both ends of the political spectrum represented. It's irrelevant, however, other than for fanboys on both sides to try and shamelessly gain some higher ground over their opposite number at the expense of this poor woman and the 6 dead around her including a child. The most relevant issue that we can be certain of with this chap is that he is mentally ill and I would suggest anyone advocating or sympathising with the attempted murder of any politician may have a problem too.

Mugabe is a politician.

But not an elected one and frankly I would rather he be put through due process first than simply murdered, however idealistic that sounds.

[jeff m]

tinman0 said:

jeff m said:

Have you noticed no actual Americans have joined this thread...

Sunday morning, and when you posted it was only 10am ET? Give them a chance!

Sorry, I thought it happened Saturday morning.

[BrassMan]

Just saw some coverage on Sky. I wonder if either of the surgeons have ever heard of Doctor-Patient confidentiality?

[Derek Smith]

RDMcG said:

a lot that was interesting and enlightening.

I have a couple of American friends in the USA and have corresponded with them over some years. They have always seemed uncomfortably right-wing in their views but as they get older they have become rather frightening. I am pleased that I don't see them now.

I have often wondered if it was a factor of age or the country. When they moved around the world, both spending some time in Europe, and one the far east, their outlook was very different, almost what I would call middle European.

They have also become religious, talking about praying for all and sundry - me included - yet when they were over here they didn't even go to church.

All very odd.

Has the USA changed so dramatically?

[ErnestM]

Derek Smith said:

Has the USA changed so dramatically?

No.

[jeff m]

Derek Smith said:

RDMcG said:

a lot that was interesting and enlightening.

I have a couple of American friends in the USA and have corresponded with them over some years. They have always seemed uncomfortably right-wing in their views but as they get older they have become rather frightening. I am pleased that I don't see them now.

I have often wondered if it was a factor of age or the country. When they moved around the world, both spending some time in Europe, and one the far east, their outlook was very different, almost what I would call middle European.

They have also become religious, talking about praying for all and sundry - me included - yet when they were over here they didn't even go to church.

All very odd.

Has the USA changed so dramatically?

My neighbours are no more dangerous than when I first arrived, but I think your obsevations do have merit. A combination of things. Reaction to Liberalism, I would say is number one.
Massive shake up in the way people think after 911.
Before 911 they would watch the Weather Channel, now they watch the News.
There are 900 channels on my TV, this gives access to everyone from "Democracy Now", the lesbian on MSNBC to the Religous Right, so there is always something to raise your hackles and push one a little further in your given direction.
Nobody gets converted by these programs they just get to become more extreem.
If your friends had been of the liberal persuation, I'm sure their shift would be apparant too.

I am to the right, the only praying I do is for all 8 cylinders to fire and for the odd lottery ticket.
I don't recommend you put those bozos back on your Christmas Card list.

PS I'm not American, just an import, so I'm only speaking for myself.

[Hugh74]

This is a bit weird? Check out Gabrielle Giffords Youtube profile and her subscriptions. She subscribes to 2 other people. One of them is..................Jared Lee Loughner!(Classitup10)!!!

http://www.youtube.com/user/giffords2

Edited by Hugh74 on Sunday 9th January 20:54

[-Pete-]

Hugh74 said:

This is a bit weird? Check out Gabrielle Giffords Youtube profile and her subscriptions. She subscribes to 2 other people. One of them is..................Jared Lee Loughner!(Classitup10)!!!

http://www.youtube.com/user/giffords2

Edited by Hugh74 on Sunday 9th January 20:54

How odd! Either hackers or WTF?

[Jimbeaux]

B Huey said:

A very sad incident and no doubt there will be some in the US who think she got what she deserved.

She is a moderate to conservative Democrat. She, along with her astronaut husband, were always doing things to serve the community. She got along in a very civil manner with both sides of the political aisle. No one in their right mind would think this is a good thing.

[Jimbeaux]

Muntu said:

Strawman said:

Muntu said:

He appears to be a Leftie. Favourite video is the burning of a US flag on his youtube account.

An astonishing view, the world's media have him down as a right wing crackpot and are blaming the rhetoric Palin has been spouting as a trigger point for the attack.

As discussed earlier, it is all conjecture at the moment, apart from the evidence available on his youtube page showing his favourite left wing reading material, and his favourite video of an American flag burning.

Trying to bring Palin into this as a factor in his action smacks of sheer desparation

The "blame everything on Bush crowd" are having withdrawals and are desperate for a fresh fix.

[Jimbeaux]

Bingone said:

I was watching the press conference with the local sheriff who seemed a thoroughly decent old guy. He said that Arizona was like the Mecca for bigotry. Not sure what he meant but the Mayor had a slightly 'softer' approach. Two members of the public brought the fecker down, one being a woman. It's a little ironic that his target took a bullet THROUGH the head and will survive whilst the 6 dead are, well..............dead, including a 9 year old girl.

This NRA boollocks about "Guns don't kill people, people kill people" has got to be shown for what it is. The constitutional right to bear arms has been abused for generations, it was only ever meant to protect America as a land, not individuals land as it is now interpreted. Charlton Heston and his cronies in the NRA have a lot of blood on their hands as far as I'm concerned and the sooner the big boys in American legislature grow some balls and rebut this ridiculous 'interpretation' of the constitution the better.

That moose hunting backwater sow Sarah Palin wants a good hiding as well for the leaflets her 'campaign' has produced which actually showed Giffords behind the crosshairs as a target! Erm, hello!!!! There are nutters out there with guns!!

Another sad day for the world's largest democracy.

Can you get anymore brainwashed and ignorant??

[Muntu]

Jimbeaux said:

Muntu said:

Strawman said:

Muntu said:

He appears to be a Leftie. Favourite video is the burning of a US flag on his youtube account.

An astonishing view, the world's media have him down as a right wing crackpot and are blaming the rhetoric Palin has been spouting as a trigger point for the attack.

As discussed earlier, it is all conjecture at the moment, apart from the evidence available on his youtube page showing his favourite left wing reading material, and his favourite video of an American flag burning.

Trying to bring Palin into this as a factor in his action smacks of sheer desparation

The "blame everything on Bush crowd" are having withdrawals and are desperate for a fresh fix.

Indeed they are, quite early on in this thread too, never mind in the USA

[Jimbeaux]

Wadeski said:

ATG said:

thinfourth2 said:

But everyone feels our version of democracy utterly ignores voters beyond a once every 5 year cross on a piece of paper.

If the fkers listened to us instead of chasing headlines and vote then we might not want to shoot the fkers

You are far from alone in saying things like this, but it is still fundamentally pretty daft.

Politicians don't ignore the public. They do the exact opposite.

They have to bend over backwards to try to keep the public sweet. They are fixated on how they get reported in the media from minute to minute. And that is a real problem because the public are collectively fking stupid. If you want short term, knee jerk, prejudiced, unconsidered opinions ... just ask the general public for a reaction to the latest event. Trying to keep public opinion on side condemns politicians to have to try to pander to the public's daft opinions. Policy becomes a huge juggling act - an impossible attempt to balance sensible policy and the whims of the general public. The very, very last thing we need is for politicians to be held accountable to the public any more frequently, let alone allowing public opinion to drive policy.

Our system is designed so that having won a mandate, politicians are then given a reasonably free hand to run the country for a few years. We get to judge them on their results at the end of that period of time. That isn't a flaw in our system ... it's the key bleeding, central idea. The system is designed to protect the country from the whims of the public.

indeed. look at California's experiment with direct democracy, i.e. referenda on policy at the same time as elections.

unsurprisingly, the public voted for fewer taxes and more services every single time, and helped bankrupt the state. because the public will put short sighted self interest above all else.

Very incorrect. California's politicians are so left leaning that they have tried to build a benefit society that has bankrupted them despite their already very high tax base. The citizens are simply telling them enough is enough.

[El Guapo]

Arizona does have the death penalty. There is no doubt about the killer's identity and there are aggravating factors (murder of a federal official, multiple victims including a 9 year-old child).
The only question is how long the legal process will take before Loughner gets the needle.

[tinman0]

Jimbeaux said:

Bingone said:

I was watching the press conference with the local sheriff who seemed a thoroughly decent old guy. He said that Arizona was like the Mecca for bigotry. Not sure what he meant but the Mayor had a slightly 'softer' approach. Two members of the public brought the fecker down, one being a woman. It's a little ironic that his target took a bullet THROUGH the head and will survive whilst the 6 dead are, well..............dead, including a 9 year old girl.

This NRA boollocks about "Guns don't kill people, people kill people" has got to be shown for what it is. The constitutional right to bear arms has been abused for generations, it was only ever meant to protect America as a land, not individuals land as it is now interpreted. Charlton Heston and his cronies in the NRA have a lot of blood on their hands as far as I'm concerned and the sooner the big boys in American legislature grow some balls and rebut this ridiculous 'interpretation' of the constitution the better.

That moose hunting backwater sow Sarah Palin wants a good hiding as well for the leaflets her 'campaign' has produced which actually showed Giffords behind the crosshairs as a target! Erm, hello!!!! There are nutters out there with guns!!

Another sad day for the world's largest democracy.

Can you get anymore brainwashed and ignorant??

Dunno, where's 968 when you need him?

[Jimbeaux]

tinman0 said:

Jimbeaux said:

Bingone said:

I was watching the press conference with the local sheriff who seemed a thoroughly decent old guy. He said that Arizona was like the Mecca for bigotry. Not sure what he meant but the Mayor had a slightly 'softer' approach. Two members of the public brought the fecker down, one being a woman. It's a little ironic that his target took a bullet THROUGH the head and will survive whilst the 6 dead are, well..............dead, including a 9 year old girl.

This NRA boollocks about "Guns don't kill people, people kill people" has got to be shown for what it is. The constitutional right to bear arms has been abused for generations, it was only ever meant to protect America as a land, not individuals land as it is now interpreted. Charlton Heston and his cronies in the NRA have a lot of blood on their hands as far as I'm concerned and the sooner the big boys in American legislature grow some balls and rebut this ridiculous 'interpretation' of the constitution the better.

That moose hunting backwater sow Sarah Palin wants a good hiding as well for the leaflets her 'campaign' has produced which actually showed Giffords behind the crosshairs as a target! Erm, hello!!!! There are nutters out there with guns!!

Another sad day for the world's largest democracy.

Can you get anymore brainwashed and ignorant??

Dunno, where's 968 when you need him?

[Ayahuasca]

Jimbeaux said:

Bingone said:

I was watching the press conference with the local sheriff who seemed a thoroughly decent old guy. He said that Arizona was like the Mecca for bigotry. Not sure what he meant but the Mayor had a slightly 'softer' approach. Two members of the public brought the fecker down, one being a woman. It's a little ironic that his target took a bullet THROUGH the head and will survive whilst the 6 dead are, well..............dead, including a 9 year old girl.

This NRA boollocks about "Guns don't kill people, people kill people" has got to be shown for what it is. The constitutional right to bear arms has been abused for generations, it was only ever meant to protect America as a land, not individuals land as it is now interpreted. Charlton Heston and his cronies in the NRA have a lot of blood on their hands as far as I'm concerned and the sooner the big boys in American legislature grow some balls and rebut this ridiculous 'interpretation' of the constitution the better.

That moose hunting backwater sow Sarah Palin wants a good hiding as well for the leaflets her 'campaign' has produced which actually showed Giffords behind the crosshairs as a target! Erm, hello!!!! There are nutters out there with guns!!

Another sad day for the world's largest democracy.

Can you get anymore brainwashed and ignorant??

Which part is brainwashed and ignorant?

[Mojocvh]

968 said:

Mojocvh said:

968 said:

elster said:

968 said:

Muntu said:

Wadeski said:

the American right has got wayyyyyy to cozy with the crazies. I'm not surprised this has happened, sadly.

He appears to be a Leftie. Favourite video is the burning of a US flag on his youtube account.

How do you know what his political persuasions are?

One of his favourite books on facebook was listed as mein Kampf.

And the other the communist manifesto. So both ends of the political spectrum represented. It's irrelevant, however, other than for fanboys on both sides to try and shamelessly gain some higher ground over their opposite number at the expense of this poor woman and the 6 dead around her including a child. The most relevant issue that we can be certain of with this chap is that he is mentally ill and I would suggest anyone advocating or sympathising with the attempted murder of any politician may have a problem too.

Wow, what's it like in utopia, 968?

You think it's ok to sympathise with an attempted murder?

edited for accuracy

Edited by 968 on Sunday 9th January 14:55

bla, bla, bla it's ALWAYS the same agenda from you.

I doubt that you actually give a st about the slain, it's all about YOUR anti US slant and it became BORING a LONG time ago.

[FYI: Actually I have been debarred from a prominent US based aviation/discussion forum for pointing out that they seem (via the likes of TSA etc) to be sleepwalking into a kind of unaccountable neo fascist state, so don't even TRY your usual CRAP as a reply, not that I'm holding my breath ]