More authoritarian idiocy - illegal to own uninsured car now

[thinfourth2]

GeraldSmith said:

thinfourth2 said:

GeraldSmith said:

Maybe this is one of the circumstances that the legislation is aimed at trying to prevent - people on test drives driving without insurance.

Mmmm people doing something illegal so lets make some more laws

Actually what it is doing is simplifying the law, it is saying that if you own a car you insure it or you SORN it, end of story. It cuts out all the stuff earlier in the thread about what happens when I'm changing my car and blah, blah, blah. It doesn't prevent people breaking the law but it makes it easy for everyone to know what the law is.

Because the old law was so difficult to understand

Car on road must be insured

Its not bloody hard.

Its a law that brings more expensive and inconvenience to those that follow the law and makes zero difference to those that break the law. By that measure its a st law

Edited by thinfourth2 on Sunday 9th January 10:43

[Sticks.]

I believe this was discussed here

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a... Insurance Enforcement

and

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a... Insurance crap

[fido]

thinfourth2 said:

Because the old law was so difficult to understand

Car on road must be insured

Its not bloody hard.

Its a law that brings more expensive and inconvenience to those that follow the law and makes zero difference to those that break the law. By that measure its a st law

Surely, this new law will be alot easier to enforce .. all cars on the DVLA databse will either have insurance or SORN status .. if neither then it's illegal and can be scrapped. That's the theory anyway.

[BliarOut]

fido said:

thinfourth2 said:

Because the old law was so difficult to understand

Car on road must be insured

Its not bloody hard.

Its a law that brings more expensive and inconvenience to those that follow the law and makes zero difference to those that break the law. By that measure its a st law

Surely, this new law will be alot easier to enforce .. all cars on the DVLA databse will either have insurance or SORN status .. if neither then it's illegal and can be scrapped. That's the theory anyway.

Buy shed, declare nothing and continue to drive anyway. What has the law achieved?

[thinfourth2]

fido said:

thinfourth2 said:

Because the old law was so difficult to understand

Car on road must be insured

Its not bloody hard.

Its a law that brings more expensive and inconvenience to those that follow the law and makes zero difference to those that break the law. By that measure its a st law

Surely, this new law will be alot easier to enforce .. all cars on the DVLA databse will either have insurance or SORN status .. if neither then it's illegal and can be scrapped. That's the theory anyway.

Yes this law will be alot easier to enforce as they do it by computer.

Those that followed the old law of not driving on road unless insured will pay the inevitable mistake fines from the DVLA.

Where as those that ignored the old law won't pay the automatic fines.

So how exactly is this tackling the problem of those that drive uninsured?

[Fort Jefferson]

Ace-T said:

Telegraph Online said:

Under the new offence of keeping a vehicle while uninsured, the onus will be on drivers to prove that they have insurance, or have completed a statutory off-road notification.

Ah, missed this bit in my Daily Soovy inspired ire!

However if you are not using a car on the road, why are you criminalised if you have not told the gummint. This is still worth a proper review as it is stupid.

If you are driving a car uninsured though, the powers that be should be able to check your insurance history: i.e. a forgetful moment in an otherwise clean history should not lead to crucifixion but if you have consistently taken the piss, licences should be removed.

Trace

Why let the facts get in the way of a good moan, ah Trace.

[Shuvi Tupya]

fido said:

thinfourth2 said:

Because the old law was so difficult to understand

Car on road must be insured

Its not bloody hard.

Its a law that brings more expensive and inconvenience to those that follow the law and makes zero difference to those that break the law. By that measure its a st law

Surely, this new law will be alot easier to enforce .. all cars on the DVLA databse will either have insurance or SORN status .. if neither then it's illegal and can be scrapped. That's the theory anyway.

Plus it gives 'them' even more reasons to have a snoop round your private property whenever they like, and create a whole new group of people to police us while we go through our hoop jumping exercises

[fido]

Shuvi Tupya said:

Plus it gives 'them' even more reasons to have a snoop round your private property whenever they like, and create a whole new group of people to police us while we go through our hoop jumping exercises

They won't need to - officer type vehicle reg into computer - it's not on the database - bye bye car. All my cars are taxed up and insured. Bring it on.

thinfourth2 said:

So how exactly is this tackling the problem of those that drive uninsured?

Yes, unless they actually enforce it properly [compound the car immediately] then it won't make a jot of difference.

Edited by fido on Sunday 9th January 12:14

[thinfourth2]

fido said:

Shuvi Tupya said:

Plus it gives 'them' even more reasons to have a snoop round your private property whenever they like, and create a whole new group of people to police us while we go through our hoop jumping exercises

They won't need to - officer type vehicle reg into computer - it's not on the database - bye bye car. All my cars are taxed up and insured. Bring it on.

How quaint you think someone will type something into a computer

No it will be auto fines, no humans involved.

[Shuvi Tupya]

fido said:

Shuvi Tupya said:

Plus it gives 'them' even more reasons to have a snoop round your private property whenever they like, and create a whole new group of people to police us while we go through our hoop jumping exercises

They won't need to - officer type vehicle reg into computer - it's not on the database - bye bye car. All my cars are taxed up and insured. Bring it on.

Why should a car be on the insurance database if it being stored / repaired on private property?

For that matter, why do we even have private property if we can not use it? I might as well dump my st on other peoples land if i have no rights to my own.

[fido]

Shuvi Tupya said:

Why should a car be on the insurance database if it being stored / repaired on private property?

For that matter, why do we even have private property if we can not use it? I might as well dump my st on other peoples land if i have no rights to my own.

It's already the case with SORN - you have to notify the DVLA that it is off-road. It's not any private property - it's a piece of property that can be driven and hence all these rules. Hey, if everyone was as honest as we, or me at least, then we wouldn't need all this sh8t!

[Shuvi Tupya]

fido said:

Shuvi Tupya said:

Why should a car be on the insurance database if it being stored / repaired on private property?

For that matter, why do we even have private property if we can not use it? I might as well dump my st on other peoples land if i have no rights to my own.

It's already the case with SORN - you have to notify the DVLA that it is off-road. It's not any private property - it's a piece of property that can be driven and hence all these rules. Hey, if everyone was as honest as we, or me at least, then we wouldn't need all this sh8t!

But it only works with those who ARE as honest as you!

Everyone else will carry on as normal, actually driving unsinsured, rather than owning a temporarily uninsured classic vehicle on private property.

If this kind of thing is going to be brought in , then it needs to be automated. You go online and cancel your tax, you get a refund in the post and your car is atomatically assumed to be sorned.

That would save loads of people loads of work and time, obviously that is not what this initiative is about. It is about creating unnecessary beurocracy, and issuing fines to those who will pay them

[elster]

stitched said:

A mate runs a drift school at Oulton.
He currently has, on private land, 2 S14s, 3S13s, 2MX5s and a 350Z.
Currently the DVLA require he sorns all these vehicles at various times of the year and regularly fks up despite him using the online service.
There needs to be a way to withdraw a car from the road for track use, it seems there is no problem if the car has never been taxed but once it has been on the road it is a road car for life.

It is hardly a difficult task to SORN 8 cars a year as a business. If they fk up he still gets email confirmation with the reg. So it isn't an issue.

If he is struggling he should get someone to help with admin 8 times a year.

[thinfourth2]

fido said:

Shuvi Tupya said:

Why should a car be on the insurance database if it being stored / repaired on private property?

For that matter, why do we even have private property if we can not use it? I might as well dump my st on other peoples land if i have no rights to my own.

It's already the case with SORN - you have to notify the DVLA that it is off-road. It's not any private property - it's a piece of property that can be driven and hence all these rules. Hey, if everyone was as honest as we, or me at least, then we wouldn't need all this sh8t!

And asides from generating lots of lovely fines what does SORN actually achieve?

[thinfourth2]

elster said:

stitched said:

A mate runs a drift school at Oulton.
He currently has, on private land, 2 S14s, 3S13s, 2MX5s and a 350Z.
Currently the DVLA require he sorns all these vehicles at various times of the year and regularly fks up despite him using the online service.
There needs to be a way to withdraw a car from the road for track use, it seems there is no problem if the car has never been taxed but once it has been on the road it is a road car for life.

It is hardly a difficult task to SORN 8 cars a year as a business. If they fk up he still gets email confirmation with the reg. So it isn't an issue.

If he is struggling he should get someone to help with admin 8 times a year.

As someone who has got a SORN fine for failing to tax or SORN a car which had a valid tax disc, MOT and insurance i don't think it is as easy as you say.

[Engineer1]

Just a thought is this a job creation scheme for Swansea? The DVLA struggle with keeping records now so add more responsibility and workload and they may need more employees .

[elster]

thinfourth2 said:

elster said:

stitched said:

A mate runs a drift school at Oulton.
He currently has, on private land, 2 S14s, 3S13s, 2MX5s and a 350Z.
Currently the DVLA require he sorns all these vehicles at various times of the year and regularly fks up despite him using the online service.
There needs to be a way to withdraw a car from the road for track use, it seems there is no problem if the car has never been taxed but once it has been on the road it is a road car for life.

It is hardly a difficult task to SORN 8 cars a year as a business. If they fk up he still gets email confirmation with the reg. So it isn't an issue.

If he is struggling he should get someone to help with admin 8 times a year.

As someone who has got a SORN fine for failing to tax or SORN a car which had a valid tax disc, MOT and insurance i don't think it is as easy as you say.

As someone who had to go through the magistrates court to prove I have and sent them the email. I know the process.

apparently the secretary of State did not know that I had SORN'd it. He should get an assistant.

Edited by elster on Sunday 9th January 12:53

[GeraldSmith]

thinfourth2 said:

Because the old law was so difficult to understand

Car on road must be insured

Its not bloody hard.

Its a law that brings more expensive and inconvenience to those that follow the law and makes zero difference to those that break the law. By that measure its a st law

Go back a page and look at the posts about what happens when you sell the car and whether you insist on proof that the buyer has insurance before you let them drive. If the person who owns the car has to have insurance all that confusion is gone.

All that is happening here is that they are closing the holes. The basic principle is that every car that gets registered has someone's name attached and that person has to tax and insure or declare that the vehicle is off the road. Because you have to notify changes of owner, when the vehicle is off the road and when it is scrapped in principle it should, in time, cut down the number of illegal cars on the road.

[thinfourth2]

GeraldSmith said:

thinfourth2 said:

Because the old law was so difficult to understand

Car on road must be insured

Its not bloody hard.

Its a law that brings more expensive and inconvenience to those that follow the law and makes zero difference to those that break the law. By that measure its a st law

Go back a page and look at the posts about what happens when you sell the car and whether you insist on proof that the buyer has insurance before you let them drive. If the person who owns the car has to have insurance all that confusion is gone.

All that is happening here is that they are closing the holes. The basic principle is that every car that gets registered has someone's name attached and that person has to tax and insure or declare that the vehicle is off the road. Because you have to notify changes of owner, when the vehicle is off the road and when it is scrapped in principle it should, in time, cut down the number of illegal cars on the road.

You are assuming everyone follows the rules

In principle they are no uninsured drivers as they law sayes it is illegal

You and i both know their are loads

This does nothing other then cause hassle for those that try to follow the law and lets those that ignore the law does as they wish

[rypt]

GeraldSmith said:

All that is happening here is that they are closing the holes. The basic principle is that every car that gets registered has someone's name attached and that person has to tax and insure or declare that the vehicle is off the road.

Why the hell must I notify them that the car is off the road?

It is none of the DVLA's business what my car is doing as long as I either pay the tax on it or declare it SORN (and thus keep it off the road).

If I wish to pay tax for the vehicle but keep it off the road then that is my business and they should be happy to be getting free money from me