Seriously do these imbeciles live in the real world.........

[tubbystu]

Kermit power said:

Manee said:

people know when they start a job what their stance on bank holidays is

then why the fk do you start objecting when you dont like it??

you sign a contract which states this is what you get do you accept?

They don't object to the contractual obligations over the normal bank holidays. This is just because the government has decided to chuck in another one for no good reason.

KP - I'm with you on this.

The same reason ASLEF got all agitated before Christmas. Because somebody decided that Boxing Day was announced as officially Tuesday 28th Dec the train drivers were supposed to work 26th Dec for straight time. We have had years of multiple public/bank holidays because Christmas & Boxing Day have fallen on weekend days.

If LU want to poke a grumpy snake with a hot stick then that is their prerogative, but when the union rails against another change to the roster and working T&C's then the media wheel out the union bashing story with ever more glee.

If LU want a fight to break the union and/or remove some historical spanish practices then they should have the gall to say so, rather than making the unions always look like the trouble making party. Same thing applies with the Firemen too.

It takes two to tangohave an industrial dispute.......... but they will not call ACAS in because they will side with the union on this.

Triple time and a day in lieu is only the union's opening gambit.

2012 will have additional bank holidays too, for the Diamond Jubilee, so a precedent needs to be set.

And I work most bank holidays (Easter usually, both in May & August almost always, NYD often) without any lieu time or financial inducement or increase in holiday entitlement, but I knew that when I started. The entertainment business tends to be busy when the public are available due to national holidays etc.

The only sacred days left in the calendar are Christmas day and Boxing Day proper. Christmas Day would carry a FIVE times rate and Boxing Day is double + day in lieu. We do work Boxing Day rarely, Christmas Day never. Customer would be charged accordingly if it was required.

[thatone1967]

[Fittster]

Let's look at an article from 1999, I'm sure none of us private sector workers would take the piss:

"Computer Wizards

THE technical whiz kids will each pick up thousands of pounds in bonuses guarding banks and corporations against the potential catastrophe of the Millennium Bug.

Insurance brokers Eagle Star and Allied Dunbar are offering a staggering year's salary, ranging from pounds 20,000 to pounds 50,000 to people who work right over the festive period.

Computer Software Recruitment boss John Tormey is astonished at the amounts of money being mentioned for the memorable night.

He said: "I have heard phenomenal sums mentioned for working over the New Year period.

"Some firms are offering as much as pounds 1,000 for just being on call."

Mark Hutcheon, IT Divisional Head at Grafton Recruitment in Belfast, says companies who use computer technology will probably have plans in place long before New Year's Eve.

"Although there has been massive hype about the Millennium Bug, most companies will have provided for it well before the actual night.

"This means that for most in the IT sector, there will be no big pay bonanza, with the exception of a few selective IT professionals in aviation, telecoms and financial services who will get up to pounds 5,000 a night to hold it all together."

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4161/is_19...

Are those in IT how did take the money imbeciles?

[whoami]

Fittster said:

Let's look at an article from 1999, I'm sure none of us private sector workers would take the piss:

"Computer Wizards

THE technical whiz kids will each pick up thousands of pounds in bonuses guarding banks and corporations against the potential catastrophe of the Millennium Bug.

Insurance brokers Eagle Star and Allied Dunbar are offering a staggering year's salary, ranging from pounds 20,000 to pounds 50,000 to people who work right over the festive period.

Computer Software Recruitment boss John Tormey is astonished at the amounts of money being mentioned for the memorable night.

He said: "I have heard phenomenal sums mentioned for working over the New Year period.

"Some firms are offering as much as pounds 1,000 for just being on call."

Mark Hutcheon, IT Divisional Head at Grafton Recruitment in Belfast, says companies who use computer technology will probably have plans in place long before New Year's Eve.

"Although there has been massive hype about the Millennium Bug, most companies will have provided for it well before the actual night.

"This means that for most in the IT sector, there will be no big pay bonanza, with the exception of a few selective IT professionals in aviation, telecoms and financial services who will get up to pounds 5,000 a night to hold it all together."

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4161/is_19...

Are those in IT how did take the money imbeciles?

Nice article, but bks.

The vast majority of folk got paid little more than their usual terms.

I was working in IT outsourcing at the time.

Believe me, if there had been an opportunity to shaft clients, my employer at that time would have taken it; big time.

[Fittster]

whoami said:

Fittster said:

Let's look at an article from 1999, I'm sure none of us private sector workers would take the piss:

"Computer Wizards

THE technical whiz kids will each pick up thousands of pounds in bonuses guarding banks and corporations against the potential catastrophe of the Millennium Bug.

Insurance brokers Eagle Star and Allied Dunbar are offering a staggering year's salary, ranging from pounds 20,000 to pounds 50,000 to people who work right over the festive period.

Computer Software Recruitment boss John Tormey is astonished at the amounts of money being mentioned for the memorable night.

He said: "I have heard phenomenal sums mentioned for working over the New Year period.

"Some firms are offering as much as pounds 1,000 for just being on call."

Mark Hutcheon, IT Divisional Head at Grafton Recruitment in Belfast, says companies who use computer technology will probably have plans in place long before New Year's Eve.

"Although there has been massive hype about the Millennium Bug, most companies will have provided for it well before the actual night.

"This means that for most in the IT sector, there will be no big pay bonanza, with the exception of a few selective IT professionals in aviation, telecoms and financial services who will get up to pounds 5,000 a night to hold it all together."

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4161/is_19...

Are those in IT how did take the money imbeciles?

Nice article, but bks.

The vast majority of folk got paid little more than their usual terms.

I was working in IT outsourcing at the time.

Believe me, if there had been an opportunity to shaft clients, my employer at that time would have taken it; big time.

Mine certainly did (and it's was one of the very big consultancy firms doing outsourcing work for the very biggest companies).

The idea that no one took the piss in IT during Y2K is bullst. IT geeks are certainly as bad at taking the piss as tube drivers, go and speak to a contractor (at least the tube driver will pay tax, not try and use some dodgy umbrella company in bong-bong land to get out of it).

I do have first hand knowledge of this and my morals and those of my colleagues are certainly no better than that of tube drivers

Edited by Fittster on Monday 10th January 23:31

[whoami]

Fittster said:

whoami said:

Fittster said:

Let's look at an article from 1999, I'm sure none of us private sector workers would take the piss:

"Computer Wizards

THE technical whiz kids will each pick up thousands of pounds in bonuses guarding banks and corporations against the potential catastrophe of the Millennium Bug.

Insurance brokers Eagle Star and Allied Dunbar are offering a staggering year's salary, ranging from pounds 20,000 to pounds 50,000 to people who work right over the festive period.

Computer Software Recruitment boss John Tormey is astonished at the amounts of money being mentioned for the memorable night.

He said: "I have heard phenomenal sums mentioned for working over the New Year period.

"Some firms are offering as much as pounds 1,000 for just being on call."

Mark Hutcheon, IT Divisional Head at Grafton Recruitment in Belfast, says companies who use computer technology will probably have plans in place long before New Year's Eve.

"Although there has been massive hype about the Millennium Bug, most companies will have provided for it well before the actual night.

"This means that for most in the IT sector, there will be no big pay bonanza, with the exception of a few selective IT professionals in aviation, telecoms and financial services who will get up to pounds 5,000 a night to hold it all together."

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4161/is_19...

Are those in IT how did take the money imbeciles?

Nice article, but bks.

The vast majority of folk got paid little more than their usual terms.

I was working in IT outsourcing at the time.

Believe me, if there had been an opportunity to shaft clients, my employer at that time would have taken it; big time.

Mine certainly did (and it's was one of the very big consultancy firms doing outsourcing work for the very biggest companies).

The idea that no one took the piss in IT during Y2K is bullst. IT geeks are certainly as bad at taking the piss as tube drivers, go and speak to a contractor (at least the tube driver will pay tax, not try and use some dodgy umbrella company in bong-bong land to get out of it).

I thought you'd want the last word

I don't need to go and speak to a contractor, I employ loads of them so I know what they charge.

No-one said they there were no examples of folk taking the piss. However, the idea that every IT Geek, as you call them, could command massively inflated rates for Y2K work is crap.

[CobolMan]

So the consultancy firms took the pi55, no change there then. I remember the run-up to Y2K well, we were very prepared for it (FTSE 100 financial institution) and there were no massive payouts to the permies who supported the systems, certainly nothing like the figures in that article.

[Fittster]

whoami said:

Fittster said:

whoami said:

Fittster said:

Let's look at an article from 1999, I'm sure none of us private sector workers would take the piss:

"Computer Wizards

THE technical whiz kids will each pick up thousands of pounds in bonuses guarding banks and corporations against the potential catastrophe of the Millennium Bug.

Insurance brokers Eagle Star and Allied Dunbar are offering a staggering year's salary, ranging from pounds 20,000 to pounds 50,000 to people who work right over the festive period.

Computer Software Recruitment boss John Tormey is astonished at the amounts of money being mentioned for the memorable night.

He said: "I have heard phenomenal sums mentioned for working over the New Year period.

"Some firms are offering as much as pounds 1,000 for just being on call."

Mark Hutcheon, IT Divisional Head at Grafton Recruitment in Belfast, says companies who use computer technology will probably have plans in place long before New Year's Eve.

"Although there has been massive hype about the Millennium Bug, most companies will have provided for it well before the actual night.

"This means that for most in the IT sector, there will be no big pay bonanza, with the exception of a few selective IT professionals in aviation, telecoms and financial services who will get up to pounds 5,000 a night to hold it all together."

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4161/is_19...

Are those in IT how did take the money imbeciles?

Nice article, but bks.

The vast majority of folk got paid little more than their usual terms.

I was working in IT outsourcing at the time.

Believe me, if there had been an opportunity to shaft clients, my employer at that time would have taken it; big time.

Mine certainly did (and it's was one of the very big consultancy firms doing outsourcing work for the very biggest companies).

The idea that no one took the piss in IT during Y2K is bullst. IT geeks are certainly as bad at taking the piss as tube drivers, go and speak to a contractor (at least the tube driver will pay tax, not try and use some dodgy umbrella company in bong-bong land to get out of it).

I thought you'd want the last word

I don't need to go and speak to a contractor, I employ loads of them so I know what they charge.

No-one said they there were no examples of folk taking the piss. However, the idea that every IT Geek, as you call them, could command massively inflated rates for Y2K work is crap.

Those that did have the opportunity took to it with gleeful open arms. My basic point is that if an employee thinks he's got the chance to load his pay packet he will leap at the chance. The idea that tube drivers would do something that the majority of the rest of the workforce would shun isn't correct IMHO.

[whoami]

CobolMan said:

So the consultancy firms took the pi55, no change there then. I remember the run-up to Y2K well, we were very prepared for it (FTSE 100 financial institution) and there were no massive payouts to the permies who supported the systems, certainly nothing like the figures in that article.

[AndrewW-G]

The big difference seems to be that the train drivers as employees of an organisation already have employment contracts that detail their pay rates for bank holidays and now their union want to renegotiate their previously agreed T&C’s and kick off the negotiations by publicly blackmailing their employers
The “IT Geeks” were being offered work in the case of contractors and consultants, or overtime in the case of the perm staff, in most cases it was outside the T&C’s of their employment contracts and the employers wanted to incentivise their employees or in the case of the consultants it was simply a matter of paying 3rd parties the going market rate.

The tube co. should simply hire the IT bods to automate the tubes, fire all the drivers and employ some of the millions of unemployed to act as train supervisors, in charge of ensuring that H&S policy is followed on the driverless trains. . . . . . . . The unions need to wise up and understand that for every driver performing an easily learned task, wanting triple pay and a day in lieu, there are tens of thousands who would be quite happy to retrain (excuse the pun) and do their job for far less

[XJSJohn]

Fittster said:

550Hep said:

Fittster said:

Hmm, how much were IT geeks asking for the work the millennium?

People will ask for what they can get away with, private or public sector.

Yes but they are not asking are they? They are demanding and then when they don't get their demands met refusing to work with no repercussions to their job for doing so, so hardly a fair comparison!

Hmm, as I remember it lots of IT geeks were going to be unavailable to work News Years eve unless they got huge amounts of cash.

Without details of what the tube drivers contract say about working on Bank Holidays it's difficult to judge the merits of their case.[/quote)

i was given tripple for new years eve night shift 1999 / 2000 to be on standby and not get drunk.

One of the few times i have been offered or given overtime pay working in IT as a consultant in 17 years.

[Zod]

I'd guessed it was Bob Crowe before opening the thread. Cameron needs to smash this union to show his mettle.

[thinfourth2]

AndrewW-G said:

The big difference seems to be that the train drivers as employees of an organisation already have employment contracts that detail their pay rates for bank holidays and now their union want to renegotiate their previously agreed T&C’s and kick off the negotiations by publicly blackmailing their employers
The “IT Geeks” were being offered work in the case of contractors and consultants, or overtime in the case of the perm staff, in most cases it was outside the T&C’s of their employment contracts and the employers wanted to incentivise their employees or in the case of the consultants it was simply a matter of paying 3rd parties the going market rate.

The tube co. should simply hire the IT bods to automate the tubes, fire all the drivers and employ some of the millions of unemployed to act as train supervisors, in charge of ensuring that H&S policy is followed on the driverless trains. . . . . . . . The unions need to wise up and understand that for every driver performing an easily learned task, wanting triple pay and a day in lieu, there are tens of thousands who would be quite happy to retrain (excuse the pun) and do their job for far less

No the big difference is that IT geeks work in offices so are good people where as anyone who doesn't work in an office is a thicky scum ball.

[GarryA]

On Network Rail you get time and a half or you have the day off.

[eccles]

thinfourth2 said:

No the big difference is that IT geeks work in offices so are good people where as anyone who doesn't work in an office is a thicky scum ball.

That sums up a lot of peoples attitudes on here!

[Fittster]

AndrewW-G said:

The “IT Geeks” were being offered work in the case of contractors and consultants, or overtime in the case of the perm staff, in most cases it was outside the T&C’s of their employment contracts and the employers wanted to incentivise their employees or in the case of the consultants it was simply a matter of paying 3rd parties the going market rate.

This is exactly the same tube drivers are asking for the cash as it's outside the T&C’s of their employment contracts.

Notice how taxi drivers charge more on banks holidays, plumbers call out fees over Christmas are increased. People maximise their earnings given the opportunity.

[AndrewW-G]

Fittster said:

AndrewW-G said:

The “IT Geeks” were being offered work in the case of contractors and consultants, or overtime in the case of the perm staff, in most cases it was outside the T&C’s of their employment contracts and the employers wanted to incentivise their employees or in the case of the consultants it was simply a matter of paying 3rd parties the going market rate.

This is exactly the same tube drivers are asking for the cash as it's outside the T&C’s of their employment contracts.

Do you have any evidence that bank holiday pay isnt mentioned in their employment contracts . . . . would be a rather odd thing to have missing dont you think

Oh and plumbers, taxi drivers etc. set the rates their company charges, you the consumer have the choice whether or not to pay for their service or find somebody else to provide the same service.
Are you suggesting that the Tube Co. should have the same sort of choice i.e. if they don’t like the service provided by their supplier, they should drop them and use another, all without penalty?

Edited by AndrewW-G on Tuesday 11th January 08:41

[Busa_Rush]

Fittster said:

This is exactly the same tube drivers are asking for the cash as it's outside the T&C’s of their employment contracts.

It was widely reported that bank holidays were covered under their existing arrangement and the Union didn't deny that . . . has this changed ?

[Fittster]

AndrewW-G said:

Fittster said:

AndrewW-G said:

The “IT Geeks” were being offered work in the case of contractors and consultants, or overtime in the case of the perm staff, in most cases it was outside the T&C’s of their employment contracts and the employers wanted to incentivise their employees or in the case of the consultants it was simply a matter of paying 3rd parties the going market rate.

This is exactly the same tube drivers are asking for the cash as it's outside the T&C’s of their employment contracts.

Do you have any evidence that bank holiday pay isnt mentioned in their employment contracts . . . . would be a rather odd thing to have missing dont you think

Read the whole thread? The extra bank holiday in 2011 isn't covered by the T&Cs.

[Engineer1]

GarryA said:

On Network Rail you get time and a half or you have the day off.

Nice to see policy is fixed for an extra note EXTRA bank holiday that the government decided to declare, if your contract says 38 days holiday a year including bank holidays you may be pissed off if the extra day comes out of your 38 days.