Guy giving Bob Diamond a hard time on SKY now
Discussion
crankedup said:
I was surprised at how many off shore Companies Barclays has and is still building. Good tax avoidance.
Which surely explains at least partly how a lower tax rate often leads to a greater tax take. Corp, Income and CGT not to mention VAT might benefit, and then the country would benefit - as long as Labour aren't around to waste the tax take at their own uniquely profligate rate.
steve singh said:
Board of directors who conduct tax avoidance would be prosecuted - there's a big difference between tax efficiency (which is the duty of a board to it's shareholders) and tax avoidance (wholly illegal).
Close but no cigar!Tax avoidance is absolutely, definitely, positively OK. Any person or company is allowed to arrange their affairs to minimise tax. (The only exception to this occurs if you start doing otherwise unnecessary things purely to dodge the tax. Like circular transactions or adding steps with no commercial purpose).
Tax evasion is the illegal one. At the simplest, theft from the state by telling porky pies on your tax return.
Ozzie Osmond said:
steve singh said:
Board of directors who conduct tax avoidance would be prosecuted - there's a big difference between tax efficiency (which is the duty of a board to it's shareholders) and tax avoidance (wholly illegal).
Close but no cigar!Tax avoidance is absolutely, definitely, positively OK. Any person or company is allowed to arrange their affairs to minimise tax. (The only exception to this occurs if you start doing otherwise unnecessary things purely to dodge the tax. Like circular transactions or adding steps with no commercial purpose).
Tax evasion is the illegal one. At the simplest, theft from the state by telling porky pies on your tax return.
cardigankid said:
No you have got it right. This is how top bankers create these fantastic 'profits' for which we should all be so grateful and pay them their bonusses. They are such clever people after all and where would we be without them?
No it's not. Most of us make them by selling services to companies.Edited by cardigankid on Wednesday 12th January 12:27
As to the "we", you don't pay my bonus, it's taken from the money I made for the company. It's actually a pretty small percent, too.
tonym911 said:
The crucial difference is that those at the top of the greed pile will always ensure they have enough reserves to come out smelling of roses. Ordinary Joes don't have that luxury.
How do you work that out, then? Most of the people I work with in banking are "ordinary". The only difference between them and you is that they chose to go and work in an investment bank, and you didn't.Edited by tonym911 on Wednesday 12th January 14:56
cardigankid said:
I entirely agree. But of course they don't just want all the money, they want the best houses the best education the best cars the best jobs the best everything and they want to exclude everyone else. I don't mind competition, but there is an established elite in the UK who just freeze out everyone else using cash and influence.
By the way, I see the balance of trade slipped to -£8.7bn. That's a recovery for you.
So join it. If you have the intelligence and work ethic, and think that the bankers are better off than you, become one.By the way, I see the balance of trade slipped to -£8.7bn. That's a recovery for you.
Edited by cardigankid on Wednesday 12th January 18:14
I can promise you, application forms don't ask you how big your parents' house is, whether you know anyone called Tarquin, or if your brother works for the company.
Regarding banks moving abroad, how would that work in a practical sense?
Would the rainmakers and senior management all move abroad and the operations / IT / Finance (read: support staff) be left out in the cold?
In the case of Barclays, would Churchill Place become little more than a satellite office?
Would the rainmakers and senior management all move abroad and the operations / IT / Finance (read: support staff) be left out in the cold?
In the case of Barclays, would Churchill Place become little more than a satellite office?
CobolMan said:
Barclays, for example, already has several sites offshore, in a number of countries, for their IT & operations.
Presumably so they can "follow the sun" and support local operations.NorthernBoy (and other ex or current Traders on here) would you consider moving halfway across the world with a team of traders or indeed with a whole bank to save your Bonus pot?
As far as banker bashing, has there been another sector of society that has received so much flak in recent times, other than MPs?
Sebo, I work in Ops for a large bank (not a UK one, and not one that took money from the gubbernment). Bank operations are becoming increasingly global in their location, with a lot of stuff being off shored. I have IT guys in Sydney, Singapore, Moscow and North Carolina, as well as India. A lot of processing is now done in either Manilla, Mumbai or Jacksonville.
I don't want to speak on the front office guys behalf, but there is a steady stream of ops people leaving the UK for lower tax places, so I can't see why FO wouldn't. I'm at the level where saving 20% tax on my bonus makes a big difference to my quality of life, so I've no doubt that when you start looking at the big boys, some would consider it. It's also why a lot of places in the Middle East and Asia are trying to Market themselves at the West.
I don't want to speak on the front office guys behalf, but there is a steady stream of ops people leaving the UK for lower tax places, so I can't see why FO wouldn't. I'm at the level where saving 20% tax on my bonus makes a big difference to my quality of life, so I've no doubt that when you start looking at the big boys, some would consider it. It's also why a lot of places in the Middle East and Asia are trying to Market themselves at the West.
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