The duty of the common man
Discussion
Shay HTFC said:
RobDickinson said:
Manufacturing steadily fell for the whole of the 20th centuary. At the start the UK produced something like 85% of the worlds manufactured goods!
With globalisation ecconomies have to specialise. UK doesnt have cheap labour or materials so mass producing things is going to be more expensive than places like China.
Uks forte is in specialised manufacturing and services like IT, banking etc. If it cant get those right its time to close up shop.
Correct, but unfortunately there is no divine rule of the universe that states we should have the right to high wages and expensive labour. If the rest of the world can do whatever we can do, but for cheaper, then the only way we can continue to compete is my working for less.With globalisation ecconomies have to specialise. UK doesnt have cheap labour or materials so mass producing things is going to be more expensive than places like China.
Uks forte is in specialised manufacturing and services like IT, banking etc. If it cant get those right its time to close up shop.
The ultimate end point of globalisation is the equal purchasing power of every single nation on the planet. Good for those at the bottom, not so good for those of us accustomed to a higher standard of life than 90% of the rest of the world.
This Country has billions of tons of coal waiting to be extracted, we have clean coal technology and plenty of workforce looking for the jobs. I would imagine that mining technology has moved on since our mines were closed, so why the heck do these mines stay closed? I can't imagine that we can't compete with the use of mining tech' against China. But as a Nation we pay benefits money to these people!
crankedup said:
This Country has billions of tons of coal waiting to be extracted, we have clean coal technology and plenty of workforce looking for the jobs. I would imagine that mining technology has moved on since our mines were closed, so why the heck do these mines stay closed? I can't imagine that we can't compete with the use of mining tech' against China. But as a Nation we pay benefits money to these people!
This fascinates me. My limited understanding is that UK coal is typically "high sulphur" and cleaning the exhaust gases was uneconomic back in the 1970s so coal was abandoned. Since then technology has moved on and the oil price has risen dramatically. There is also the "strategic" attraction of having our own energy supply as North Sea oil/gas dwindles.Instead we seem to be committing to imported wind power and nuclear technologies.
Ozzie Osmond said:
crankedup said:
This Country has billions of tons of coal waiting to be extracted, we have clean coal technology and plenty of workforce looking for the jobs. I would imagine that mining technology has moved on since our mines were closed, so why the heck do these mines stay closed? I can't imagine that we can't compete with the use of mining tech' against China. But as a Nation we pay benefits money to these people!
This fascinates me. My limited understanding is that UK coal is typically "high sulphur" and cleaning the exhaust gases was uneconomic back in the 1970s so coal was abandoned. Since then technology has moved on and the oil price has risen dramatically. There is also the "strategic" attraction of having our own energy supply as North Sea oil/gas dwindles.Instead we seem to be committing to imported wind power and nuclear technologies.
The biggest problem with British Coal was the miners, and this is what killed it as an industry, they were badly advised to put it politely, mess about with energy supplies and it wasn't long before imported coal was being delivered direct by ship to coal fired power stations, completely bypassing pickets.
Nuclear has powerful allies and lets not forget that 'Global Warming' was pushed by Thatcher as a way of boosting the case for nuclear.
We are more likely to see gas being extracted from coalbeds by hydraulic fracturing, leaving the coal in situ.
That's if this damn Carbon thing gets shot down.
Nuclear has powerful allies and lets not forget that 'Global Warming' was pushed by Thatcher as a way of boosting the case for nuclear.
We are more likely to see gas being extracted from coalbeds by hydraulic fracturing, leaving the coal in situ.
That's if this damn Carbon thing gets shot down.
Tsippy said:
Ozzie Osmond said:
crankedup said:
This Country has billions of tons of coal waiting to be extracted, we have clean coal technology and plenty of workforce looking for the jobs. I would imagine that mining technology has moved on since our mines were closed, so why the heck do these mines stay closed? I can't imagine that we can't compete with the use of mining tech' against China. But as a Nation we pay benefits money to these people!
This fascinates me. My limited understanding is that UK coal is typically "high sulphur" and cleaning the exhaust gases was uneconomic back in the 1970s so coal was abandoned. Since then technology has moved on and the oil price has risen dramatically. There is also the "strategic" attraction of having our own energy supply as North Sea oil/gas dwindles.Instead we seem to be committing to imported wind power and nuclear technologies.
Mention 'coal' in any breath - clean or otherwise - to any of those who govern us (we are overrun by warmists and pc morons) and they'd be running to the loo (literally). Non starter.
Why do we import all these technologies? TAKE A LOOK AT WHO OWNS THEM!
Virtually everything we have or had is now in FOREIGN hands, and it's across the board.
We have been sold down the river. Our independence has virtually gone.
I've stood and watched all this for 60 years and I now despair.
To be frank, I also couldn't care less anymore. Why should I?
Only the younger generation can change it but I fear it's too late.
My viewpoint is that I am now standing where you will be in 20 years time.
In a third world country.
PS
As I mentioned in another thread while on the subject of importing.
Remember the floods in Cockermouth?
The Gov paid £4.5million for a new bridge to cross the river in Workington.
We 'built' (assembled!!) it. It took nearly half a year.
Why?
While it was shipped to us from HOLLAND!
Brunel must be doing 10,000 rpm in his grave!
Edited by dandarez on Wednesday 12th January 12:54
Shay HTFC said:
The ultimate end point of globalisation is the equal purchasing power of every single nation on the planet. Good for those at the bottom, not so good for those of us accustomed to a higher standard of life than 90% of the rest of the world.
This is it for me, and also why the world is screwed. Not because we have to face up to the fact that we're going to get poorer, but because I don't think there are enough resources on the planet to allow for a comfortable existence for even a fraction of our first & second world population.dandarez said:
Tsippy said:
Ozzie Osmond said:
crankedup said:
This Country has billions of tons of coal waiting to be extracted, we have clean coal technology and plenty of workforce looking for the jobs. I would imagine that mining technology has moved on since our mines were closed, so why the heck do these mines stay closed? I can't imagine that we can't compete with the use of mining tech' against China. But as a Nation we pay benefits money to these people!
This fascinates me. My limited understanding is that UK coal is typically "high sulphur" and cleaning the exhaust gases was uneconomic back in the 1970s so coal was abandoned. Since then technology has moved on and the oil price has risen dramatically. There is also the "strategic" attraction of having our own energy supply as North Sea oil/gas dwindles.Instead we seem to be committing to imported wind power and nuclear technologies.
Mention 'coal' in any breath - clean or otherwise - to any of those who govern us (we are overrun by warmists and pc morons) and they'd be running to the loo (literally). Non starter.
Why do we import all these technologies? TAKE A LOOK AT WHO OWNS THEM!
Virtually everything we have or had is now in FOREIGN hands, and it's across the board.
We have been sold down the river. Our independence has virtually gone.
I've stood and watched all this for 60 years and I now despair.
To be frank, I also couldn't care less anymore. Why should I?
Only the younger generation can change it but I fear it's too late.
My viewpoint is that I am now standing where you will be in 20 years time.
In a third world country.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ijvO5DqUkOc
Edited by Tsippy on Wednesday 12th January 12:29
glazbagun said:
Shay HTFC said:
The ultimate end point of globalisation is the equal purchasing power of every single nation on the planet. Good for those at the bottom, not so good for those of us accustomed to a higher standard of life than 90% of the rest of the world.
This is it for me, and also why the world is screwed. Not because we have to face up to the fact that we're going to get poorer, but because I don't think there are enough resources on the planet to allow for a comfortable existence for even a fraction of our first & second world population.The world has always been screwed.
When I was born half the world was starving the other half had the wealth (or were fighting wars!).
It still is. Nothing changes.
The difference is it's this island that is now heading towards the bottom of the pile.
The proof is there!
Edited by dandarez on Wednesday 12th January 12:40
Tsippy said:
dandarez said:
Tsippy said:
Ozzie Osmond said:
crankedup said:
This Country has billions of tons of coal waiting to be extracted, we have clean coal technology and plenty of workforce looking for the jobs. I would imagine that mining technology has moved on since our mines were closed, so why the heck do these mines stay closed? I can't imagine that we can't compete with the use of mining tech' against China. But as a Nation we pay benefits money to these people!
This fascinates me. My limited understanding is that UK coal is typically "high sulphur" and cleaning the exhaust gases was uneconomic back in the 1970s so coal was abandoned. Since then technology has moved on and the oil price has risen dramatically. There is also the "strategic" attraction of having our own energy supply as North Sea oil/gas dwindles.Instead we seem to be committing to imported wind power and nuclear technologies.
Mention 'coal' in any breath - clean or otherwise - to any of those who govern us (we are overrun by warmists and pc morons) and they'd be running to the loo (literally). Non starter.
Why do we import all these technologies? TAKE A LOOK AT WHO OWNS THEM!
Virtually everything we have or had is now in FOREIGN hands, and it's across the board.
We have been sold down the river. Our independence has virtually gone.
I've stood and watched all this for 60 years and I now despair.
To be frank, I also couldn't care less anymore. Why should I?
Only the younger generation can change it but I fear it's too late.
My viewpoint is that I am now standing where you will be in 20 years time.
In a third world country.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ijvO5DqUkOc
Re China and others, yes, he's spot on.
For example, we like fools give millions in aid 'free' to South Africa and India.
In return we get bugger all. We're a begging bowl for them.
China gives aid too ...in return for for deals and equity in business for themselves.
Only a fool gives to beggars.
glazbagun said:
Shay HTFC said:
The ultimate end point of globalisation is the equal purchasing power of every single nation on the planet. Good for those at the bottom, not so good for those of us accustomed to a higher standard of life than 90% of the rest of the world.
This is it for me, and also why the world is screwed. Not because we have to face up to the fact that we're going to get poorer, but because I don't think there are enough resources on the planet to allow for a comfortable existence for even a fraction of our first & second world population.I think that in the long term globalisation will balance things out, once wage inflation in the likes of Chindia reach a certain level. It'll become cheaper and more efficient to make things locally again, transportation costs will surely rise when issues like peak oil kick in...
There are people who just don't seem to be naturally for white collar type work, the former labours, miners, etc. of this world. I think that as humans it's a natural condition to be practical in a physical sence, we've evolved that way for survival, for a "real life" situation. Many of the benefits class are would be working class, if we had the manual jobs that suited them.
There are people who just don't seem to be naturally for white collar type work, the former labours, miners, etc. of this world. I think that as humans it's a natural condition to be practical in a physical sence, we've evolved that way for survival, for a "real life" situation. Many of the benefits class are would be working class, if we had the manual jobs that suited them.
"In 2007, the top manufacturing countries besides the United States were China ($1,106 billion USD), Japan ($926 billion USD), Germany ($670 billion USD), the Russian Federation ($362 billion USD), Italy ($345 billion USD), the United Kingdom ($342 billion USD), France ($296 billion USD), South Korea ($241 billion USD), Canada ($218 billion USD), Spain ($208 billion USD), and Brazil ($206 billion USD)."
Could only find the old data but I think in the years that followed France narrowly overtook the UK as 7th or 8th in the world for manufacturing. Also not sure whether that's turnover or profit but fairly confident the latter.
In terms of a specialised industry and pharmaceuticals we're amongst the best performers in the world. Not bad for a little island with hardly any natural resources, a crap education system that is allegedly inhabited by "vegatables".
End of manufacturing? No. We have specialised industry. It's just an end of the swathes of people going into god awful mineshafts and factories.
It just so happens that as mechanisation increases, the number of workers required decreases so there are fewer roles left and these are specialised.
If you don't like it feel free to p
s off to China. See how good the quality of life is.
Could only find the old data but I think in the years that followed France narrowly overtook the UK as 7th or 8th in the world for manufacturing. Also not sure whether that's turnover or profit but fairly confident the latter.
In terms of a specialised industry and pharmaceuticals we're amongst the best performers in the world. Not bad for a little island with hardly any natural resources, a crap education system that is allegedly inhabited by "vegatables".
End of manufacturing? No. We have specialised industry. It's just an end of the swathes of people going into god awful mineshafts and factories.
It just so happens that as mechanisation increases, the number of workers required decreases so there are fewer roles left and these are specialised.
If you don't like it feel free to p
s off to China. See how good the quality of life is.ringram said:
Prof Prolapse said:
If you don't like it feel free to ps off to China. See how good the quality of life is.
Yeah it looks bad to me in comparison.s off to China. See how good the quality of life is.
Fittster said:
I can do that too http://www.google.co.uk/images?um=1&hl=en&...But it depends where you go surely. Anyway who suggested China. Plenty of other places including Germany, Australia, Canada etc.
On the coal mining issue Open Cast was popular for a while but a lot of sites became uneconomic and were closed. Re-opening would not be popular with the locals and so there are few 'old' sites. However if you apply for planning consent to carry out reclamation of a site you can as part of that extract coal but of course you aren't running a nasty dusty Open Cast site you are a green hero reclaiming land.
Whereas the Asians just do it.
Whereas the Asians just do it.
Tsippy said:
Ozzie Osmond said:
crankedup said:
This Country has billions of tons of coal waiting to be extracted, we have clean coal technology and plenty of workforce looking for the jobs. I would imagine that mining technology has moved on since our mines were closed, so why the heck do these mines stay closed? I can't imagine that we can't compete with the use of mining tech' against China. But as a Nation we pay benefits money to these people!
This fascinates me. My limited understanding is that UK coal is typically "high sulphur" and cleaning the exhaust gases was uneconomic back in the 1970s so coal was abandoned. Since then technology has moved on and the oil price has risen dramatically. There is also the "strategic" attraction of having our own energy supply as North Sea oil/gas dwindles.Instead we seem to be committing to imported wind power and nuclear technologies.
Scrubbing the flue gasses on a coal plant and then installing the compression equipment to pump that gas into a well puts the cost of the construction of a coal plant up to level of a nuclear plant.
When you operate the C02 extraction and compression systems these use a substantial amount of power which you then have to burn more coal to supply the energy to, this adds greatly to your fuel costs. The fuel costs of a regular coal plant are already very much higher than an nuclear plant.
Also you have added a whole bunch of additional equipment, which require maintenance adding to your ops cost.
In short coal with CSS is a technology for people who are politically scared of going with nuclear.
Edited by Talksteer on Wednesday 12th January 23:26
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