Bi election result
Discussion
Fittster said:
cazzer said:
Labour nailed the two areas together, guess which bit the lib dem and tory voters come from?
Please explain how the Labour party created the constituency?I see two problems with your argument:
1. It was first fought 1997, which means it was created under John Majors conservative government.,
2. The boundary commission defines constituencies.
The point still stands...one consituency has been demographically swamped by an ethnically seperate and much larger one and no longer has a voice.
Interesting how an accident of geography causes this.
If boudaries were arbitrary it would be a bit like attaching Henly on Thames to Tower Hamlets.
Halb said:
Derek, you mentioned in another thread aboot how this coalition are not doing the right things to boost the economy/bring in money, not sure which thread it was. What do you think they should be doing?
Has anyone details of what they have done so far? Haven't heard much, maybe it's the media, maybe there isn't much.anonymous said:
[redacted]
My lot (MRL) really did quite well and achieved the usual aim (lost the deposit) so technically we won. Beating the pesky pirates and those bus pass geriatrics was a bit disappointing, and the healthy gap between us and the English democrats really needs to be addressed as well. At this rate we'll be ahead of the Green men soon, although the tories still seem a bit out of reach. We look forward to the general election of the year 3011 when a MRL victory is hotly tipped, and we don't believe by elections truly reflect how low a vote we really could achieve if we tried a bit less harder. Fittster said:
rs1952 said:
Governments become unpopular mid-term. That's what governments do, virtually without exception (and not only in this country). No ruling party wants an election when they are unpopular, and this applies as much to the LDs as it does to anybody else.
Do you believe we have reached mid-term in the governments life?
Or thats how it used to be.
Now we are told we have a fixed term parliament that will run until June 2015. So, if this happens, "mid-term" in a political context will in future mean the period between when the ruling parties' poll ratings start going down, to the time they chuck us a few tax cut morsels or similar so that their poll ratings will turn up sufficiently to make winning an election look like a probability
All said and done i do find it utterly shocking that people vote labour, i mean i really do.
For the people who are out there now bleating about the nasty tories is just beggars belief.
Gobsmacked in general.
You know i dont know why the government doesn't do a simple tv advert explaining things in plain English.
Its as simple as saying
'As a country we bring in x amount through taxation etc, as a country we are spending xx so therefore we must balance things or we are f
ked and all your tv's and sky packages will be turned off never to come back again'.
Of course though they only help the rich.
Thick bds.
For the people who are out there now bleating about the nasty tories is just beggars belief.
Gobsmacked in general.
You know i dont know why the government doesn't do a simple tv advert explaining things in plain English.
Its as simple as saying
'As a country we bring in x amount through taxation etc, as a country we are spending xx so therefore we must balance things or we are f
ked and all your tv's and sky packages will be turned off never to come back again'.Of course though they only help the rich.
Thick b
ds.
m3jappa said:
You know i dont know why the government doesn't do a simple tv advert explaining things in plain English.
Its as simple as saying
'As a country we bring in x amount through taxation etc, as a country we are spending xx so therefore we must balance things or we are fked and all your tv's and sky packages will be turned off never to come back again'.
Of course though they only help the rich.
Thick bds.
Because Liebour would then say "Don't listen to them. We'll tax the rich so much it will make their heads spin. Of course, when we say "rich" what we actually mean is "anyone who is not on benefits". Don't worry, your plasma TV's and Sky packages will be safe with us in charge. Oh, and have a free laptop that you can flog on eBay as well. Meanwhile, we'll just stick our heads in the sand and pretend the deficit doesn't exist, while blaming Thatcher for everything."Its as simple as saying
'As a country we bring in x amount through taxation etc, as a country we are spending xx so therefore we must balance things or we are f
ked and all your tv's and sky packages will be turned off never to come back again'.Of course though they only help the rich.
Thick b
ds.Whoever is in power, Labour, Lib Dem, Tory, Coalition, the country has had it.
Do you honestly think Cameron and Osborne have the backbone to get us out of this mess? I don't. Then again Labour haven't either.
The Coalition IMHO have made some very big blundering errors.
Look at the botched SDSR, cancelling "paid for" capabilities (Nimrod) just to bury a name, and use it as an example of Labour waste, when in fact it only became a waste when Cameron cancelled it.
The culling of our armed forces (Nimrod, Harrier, Ark Royal)putting the country at risk, whilst increasing the foreign aid budget for countries that have larger and better equipped forces than us. The increase in contributions to Europe, hailed as a victory when in fact nothing had been agreed. Then we had the cutting of the sports budget, then after an outcry a partial U-Turn. Then there was a recent book service for Children that was to be cut, after an outcry that was "U-turned" aswell. What about the promised Fuel tax escalator, and was there a promise at one stage VAT would not go up?
The whole idea of the the Child credits where a person on £45k wouldn't get it but a couple on £80k would seems like it wasn't thought out at all. A school child could have worked that out.
The not sacking of Cable when he made those blunderous comments to some giggly girl reporters. If I had done that in my job I would be out on my Ar5e, yet because he is a major Lib Dem man (and his sacking would rock the coalition) he got away with it.
Then the employing of a Photographer (35k??) to follow Cameron around showed how much spin and image is to the man, and perhaps how out of touch he is.
It was bound to happen that "Wallace & co" would begin to pick up votes, the Lib Dems were seen as the alternative to Labour by those who didn't want a Tory government. The Lib Dems going in to coalition have sold out I would imagine in many Lib Dem voter's eyes, have become unelectable.
If Cameron was a strong leader and able to make reasoned decisions (like on our armed forces), and not make rushed decisions and making himself look a tt by making u-turns, then he may have gained some respect. Instead he is not endearing himself to many who I believe see him as rather weak. The Foreign Aid/Bribe money to other countries is annoying a lot of people I know.
When faced with questions you get the usual "it's fair" and "it was the right thing to do" answers.
The big problem with this country does rest with 14 years of Labour, however successive governments have let our heavy industries go overseas, go to the wall or be bought by foreign companies. The result of this was Labour creating thousands of unaffordable public sector jobs. Now with these facing the axe, where do these people go?
IMHO the North is going to become bleak, the only areas that will be relatively unaffected is the South/city, where banks will not be allowed to fail. The North seeing increasing unemployment will inevitably turn to labour.
IMHO No matter who is in power we have had it. Cameron's boasts we will be great in 5 years is rubbish, we won't be, we will still be in trouble. I don't share his optimism of the private sector picking up the pieces either.
I voted for Cameron, but so far I am very disappointed in him, and his ability to make reasoned decisions and back them up with a valid argument/reason. I hope he can turn things around, but you can see why some up in these bleaker areas that have lost their industries, and now their jobs are turning to Labour.
It will be interesting to see what happens with the Alternative Voting system this year aswell, could it be the final straw for Clegg and the Lib Dems in the Coalition?
Do you honestly think Cameron and Osborne have the backbone to get us out of this mess? I don't. Then again Labour haven't either.
The Coalition IMHO have made some very big blundering errors.
Look at the botched SDSR, cancelling "paid for" capabilities (Nimrod) just to bury a name, and use it as an example of Labour waste, when in fact it only became a waste when Cameron cancelled it.
The culling of our armed forces (Nimrod, Harrier, Ark Royal)putting the country at risk, whilst increasing the foreign aid budget for countries that have larger and better equipped forces than us. The increase in contributions to Europe, hailed as a victory when in fact nothing had been agreed. Then we had the cutting of the sports budget, then after an outcry a partial U-Turn. Then there was a recent book service for Children that was to be cut, after an outcry that was "U-turned" aswell. What about the promised Fuel tax escalator, and was there a promise at one stage VAT would not go up?
The whole idea of the the Child credits where a person on £45k wouldn't get it but a couple on £80k would seems like it wasn't thought out at all. A school child could have worked that out.
The not sacking of Cable when he made those blunderous comments to some giggly girl reporters. If I had done that in my job I would be out on my Ar5e, yet because he is a major Lib Dem man (and his sacking would rock the coalition) he got away with it.
Then the employing of a Photographer (35k??) to follow Cameron around showed how much spin and image is to the man, and perhaps how out of touch he is.
It was bound to happen that "Wallace & co" would begin to pick up votes, the Lib Dems were seen as the alternative to Labour by those who didn't want a Tory government. The Lib Dems going in to coalition have sold out I would imagine in many Lib Dem voter's eyes, have become unelectable.
If Cameron was a strong leader and able to make reasoned decisions (like on our armed forces), and not make rushed decisions and making himself look a t
t by making u-turns, then he may have gained some respect. Instead he is not endearing himself to many who I believe see him as rather weak. The Foreign Aid/Bribe money to other countries is annoying a lot of people I know.When faced with questions you get the usual "it's fair" and "it was the right thing to do" answers.
The big problem with this country does rest with 14 years of Labour, however successive governments have let our heavy industries go overseas, go to the wall or be bought by foreign companies. The result of this was Labour creating thousands of unaffordable public sector jobs. Now with these facing the axe, where do these people go?
IMHO the North is going to become bleak, the only areas that will be relatively unaffected is the South/city, where banks will not be allowed to fail. The North seeing increasing unemployment will inevitably turn to labour.
IMHO No matter who is in power we have had it. Cameron's boasts we will be great in 5 years is rubbish, we won't be, we will still be in trouble. I don't share his optimism of the private sector picking up the pieces either.
I voted for Cameron, but so far I am very disappointed in him, and his ability to make reasoned decisions and back them up with a valid argument/reason. I hope he can turn things around, but you can see why some up in these bleaker areas that have lost their industries, and now their jobs are turning to Labour.
It will be interesting to see what happens with the Alternative Voting system this year aswell, could it be the final straw for Clegg and the Lib Dems in the Coalition?
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Agree with alot of that, would say the main thing that has FUBAR'ED this country is the EU and the mad invro stuff like the large combustion plant directive so we will never make much with heatIE cement, steel, bricks etc and just sit on our coal reseves importing russian gas and french electicity instead
Coalitions never work.
I am still going to win my money on an incredible 2012, disastrous Olympics, and a General Election! Before you say fool I won money on Ed Millipede becoming leader, placing my bet the day after the General Election.
The LibDems will disintigrate, their supporters will want to vent their anger on the Tories but at the last minute won't have the guts so will vote UKIP and half the Tory disillusioned vote will go UKIP.
Like said, this country has had it.
We need to regain our independence and with ex Tory donor Wheeler now the new Treasurer of UKIP you can see why God saved Farage in the plane crash.
It's all fate. Sod off EU, we don't want your energy saving lightbulbs, we just want our independence back!
Oh, and we might get back an education system where people can spell!
Bi election
Stay behind Jones!
It's By-election - do it 10,000 times.
I am still going to win my money on an incredible 2012, disastrous Olympics, and a General Election! Before you say fool I won money on Ed Millipede becoming leader, placing my bet the day after the General Election.
The LibDems will disintigrate, their supporters will want to vent their anger on the Tories but at the last minute won't have the guts so will vote UKIP and half the Tory disillusioned vote will go UKIP.
Like said, this country has had it.
We need to regain our independence and with ex Tory donor Wheeler now the new Treasurer of UKIP you can see why God saved Farage in the plane crash.
It's all fate. Sod off EU, we don't want your energy saving lightbulbs, we just want our independence back!
Oh, and we might get back an education system where people can spell!
Bi election
Stay behind Jones!
It's By-election - do it 10,000 times.
Edited by dandarez on Friday 14th January 23:31
rs1952 said:
Derek Smith said:
The biggest risk to the coalition is the Liberal party. If the vote on AV goes down the tubes then they will have to try and salvage their party from the pit it is in at present or it will disappear. It might even collapse before that. It is all very well Cameron saying that he will run full term but circumstances dictate.
If the vote goes against the LibDems then there will probably be an internal coup. Clegg will be kicked out, ostensibly because he backtracked on solemn pre-election promises, such as not raising tuition fees and not raising VAT. Oh, hold on, only one of those. Then there will be a renegotiation of terms.
If the referendum goes against the LDs then they will have to live with the result. Unless criticisms of how the campaign was handled could be made to stick, I can't see a leadership coupe coming, if for no other reason that there is no obvious candidate at the moment who is likely to resurrect the party's electability sufficiently to make it worthwhile.If the vote goes against the LibDems then there will probably be an internal coup. Clegg will be kicked out, ostensibly because he backtracked on solemn pre-election promises, such as not raising tuition fees and not raising VAT. Oh, hold on, only one of those. Then there will be a renegotiation of terms.
I don't see any political party, of whatever colour or belief, having to live with a result. It has never happened before.
The LibDems have risked a considerable amount on this coalition and at the moment it doesn't seem to be paying off. Indeed, the only payoff is the AV. But the LD have effectively campaigned against a positive vote. The thought that will cross many people's minds is that the LDs were unable to influence the tories to any significant degree. In fact it would appear to have been all one way. The only concession the tories have made is for the AV referendum, and that was an essential after their last coalition.
But they gave up the one certain, sure and binding promise they made before the election. One could, perhaps, have understood it if it was a massive saving in the short or medium term, or it could have been presented as such, but it wasn’t on either account. The LibDems rolled over and allowed the tories to walk all over them.
My feeling is that they will not come back from that because it was the basis of their election campaign. No one believe Cameron when he said they would not put up VAT. He’s as transparent as make-believe glass.
If I was an LD I would feel that my party had missed a great opportunity. We had one of the most unpopular parties in government ever and still Cameron couldn’t squeeze a simple majority. There is a massive opportunity for a real solid leader to come forward and take control yet here they are, actually loosing masses of support.
The rank and file of the LD must see this. If AV goes down the tubes they will have lost half their vote. And deservedly.
The bye-election was remarkable. Every leader was relieved yet there was nothing positive in it for any of them. Just not too bad.
I cannot see the coalition lasting. The LD has too much to lose by sticking with the tories, who will become more and more disliked as time goes on. If there was a strong, imaginative and shrewd leader then it might be worth risking but all they have is Cameron. His policies seem to me to be peaking in four or five years. There is no investment. He will, I am certain, have to pull a few U turns as time goes by and this always upsets the populace.
There will be more demonstrations, the fuel depots will be surrounded as businesses and individuals struggle to cope. Prices will rocket. TheLD will see an opportunity for their party to be seen as the sensible option and then pull the plug on a point of principle. In other words at what they see as the most opportune time. And it won’t be at the end of 5 years.
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