Did the Pope perform a miracle?

[Sticks.]

Rude-boy said:

I’m not a God follower and don’t know what Soovy’s views are, although I have an idea where he is coming from.

They way I look at it is that whilst I don’t for one second believe some bloke took out the modelling clay and thought “what can I do this week?” I’m not happy that when you take the Big Bang theory back to basics you still have to ask, “So what created the primeval atom?”

There’s a lot we don’t understand and most likely never will. In darker intellectual times the only way that people could explain something they didn’t understand was to create a myth to explain it – sea monsters, sun gods, history is littered with examples. The best one being a white haired old bloke with a nasty temper and a love of apples.

Just because I don’t think that that is the right explanation doesn’t mean there isn’t one that is right.

So all we really know is that we don’t know the answer and rather than adopt an image I personally believe is wrong it is better to adopt an all encompassing term which was designed in the first place to cover all beliefs, a grant architect.

Be most excellent to each other.

Far too reasonable and balanced a view for PH

I vaguely remember from school there was a philosophical argument along the lines that you had to first presume the existence of a great architect of the universe before you could begint argue against its existence. I think it was that reason and order cannot scome from big bang randomness or something. Long time ago, if it really existed at all

Btw Sundays for us iirc.

[crankedup]

If the Great Man has performed a miracle I hope he may have passed on the miracle making knowledge to Dave and Nick.

[Derek Smith]

erdnase said:

Without knowing too much about this other than what's in the article, it seems like we'd need to know what the remission rate for Parkinsons is - as well as how common mis-diagnosis are.

All information below is from a friend whose mother died of Parkinsons some 15 years ago so may have changed since.

Parkinsons hasn't just the once cause. It is really a collection of symptoms. Tick enough boxes and you have PD. However, one essential seems to be that it is progressive and you cannot get 'better'. Remission would include not getting any worse.

However, one of the main signals is tremors and these can be temporary. This can be caused through illness, an infection, or even an injury. It could be through a mental disorder or even as a side effect of medication. So you can be diagnosed as having PD but then get better. The out then is that you have been misdiagnosed by the doctor so you have not 'got better' from PD, only the blow to the head. Or the fact that you have got over not being able to drink a bottle of whisky a day, another comon cause of PD. (Delirium tremens.)

So in fact many people get better from having the symptoms of PD but not from PD itself as one of the essentials is that it is a progressive and permanent collapse of the nervous system.

The way of diagnosing if it was actually PD is to cut open the brain. I assume this nun's permission would be needed for this. However, if no damage was found then it would be a sign of intervention, whether demonic or pope related would be unknown.

By definition this nun hadn't got PD as she got better. I would suggest having a look at her off-licence visits. It is all rather farcical as you can't prove she had PD, only that she hadn't and the way of proving that is by her getting better.

[Zaxxon]

Did the pope perform a miracle?

Well he was complicit in the manslaughter of millions of Africans......and didn't get put away.

Pretty miraculous.

[Jim the Sunderer]

They done the same with Mother Teresa, travelling sales rep.

I am going to invent a new phrase and that phrase is 'saint inflation'.

[wolves_wanderer]

Zaxxon said:

Did the pope perform a miracle?

Well he was complicit in the manslaughter of millions of Africans......and didn't get put away.

How so?

[Mr E]

thread title said:

Did the Pope perform a miracle?

To paraphrase Mr Fry - no dear, I'm afraid not.

[Westy Pre-Lit]

I'll believe the Pope can perform miracles when he puts an end to Priests kiddy fiddling !

[Ayahuasca]

I understand the 'miracle' has to be corroborated by medical doctors - what a strange mix of science and non-science that particular conversation must have been.

So, Dotore - is was a miracle, yes?

Well, Monsignore, sometimes the human body can respond in unexpected ways to treatment.

So, a miracle, yes?

Well, Monsignore, it may have been a number of factors. You see the original diagnosis may have been..

So, a miracle, yes?

[zollburgers]

Soovy said:

Just someone or something which designed us/everything.

It's all too mathematically perfect.

Mathematics is something invented by humans to try and describe why st naturally happens. It's in no way proof of anything.

Given infinite time and billions upon billions upon billions of worlds where conditions are such that life can start, then it's probable that consciousness will evolve on at least one of them to such a state (since it has already happened) that equations can be created by the lifeforms to describe some bits of how st happens.

Oh, and who designed the 'something'?

[anonymous-user]

where was the hand of god in protecting millions of children abused by the religious systemm, that was there to protect them..

Where was he then, probably saving some old bid from dieing giving her an extra couple of years.. Oh that is o.k then..

religion what a farce..

[anonymous-user]

zollburgers said:

Soovy said:

Just someone or something which designed us/everything.

It's all too mathematically perfect.

Mathematics is something invented by humans to try and describe why st naturally happens. It's in no way proof of anything.

Given infinite time and billions upon billions upon billions of worlds where conditions are such that life can start, then it's probable that consciousness will evolve on at least one of them to such a state (since it has already happened) that equations can be created by the lifeforms to describe some bits of how st happens.

Oh, and who designed the 'something'?

And why does a system have to fall into human understanding of how everything came about. Maybe the explainable is not explainable in human thought terms..

[Spiritual_Beggar]

The Spruce Goose said:

And why does a system have to fall into human understanding of how everything came about. Maybe the explainable is not explainable in human thought terms..

Exactly...


Clearly, if we capable of understanding more, the Vulcans would have made first contact already



And why would you want to send the dead body of a pope to a Beautician......oh...wait...

Edited by Spiritual_Beggar on Friday 14th January 19:30

[Marf]

Spiritual_Beggar said:

Clearly, if we capable of understanding more, the Vulcans would have made first contact already

Soon enough, my warp powered garden shed is nearly ready.

[zollburgers]

The Spruce Goose said:

zollburgers said:

Soovy said:

Just someone or something which designed us/everything.

It's all too mathematically perfect.

Mathematics is something invented by humans to try and describe why st naturally happens. It's in no way proof of anything.

Given infinite time and billions upon billions upon billions of worlds where conditions are such that life can start, then it's probable that consciousness will evolve on at least one of them to such a state (since it has already happened) that equations can be created by the lifeforms to describe some bits of how st happens.

Oh, and who designed the 'something'?

And why does a system have to fall into human understanding of how everything came about. Maybe the explainable is not explainable in human thought terms..

I know, that's kind of my point. Maths is our stab at trying to understand things and we probably never will.

It's similar to somebody winning the lottery, wrongly concluding that they were designed to win and then trying to make logic out of why they were 'chosen'. They weren't, there are simply so many people playing that it's almost a given that somebody will win.

Same with the infinite combination of 'things' in the universe (and probably beyond). Out of all the unimagineable outcomes that do not end in life, there are combinations that do. Doesn't point to a designer though.

[Zad]

It's a church thing, he won't be a "saint" outside the church, they judge him by their own standards so it is entirely up to them. It is only when they start messing in things like contraception, war, choirboys etc that I have a problem with them.

[Mr_B]

You do have to wonder just how many so-called normal people believe this stuff and think it's great. The power of religion over the mind is just amazing, how the hell do they do it so well ? I try not to get caught up in religion of any kind, but this PR stunt is really quite sick in the extreme.
After a long period of bad press with ever more people claiming to have been arse raped by Catholic priests, now they tell us that a 'mircale' was performed.
Now I can understand that some people may not be secure enough not to believe in a god, but even these can really believe this, can they ? Do they ????

[Tunku]

Soovy said:

theboyfold said:

Soovy said:

theboyfold said:

Soovy said:

I believe in a divine architect.

I don't believe in an organisation called the Church.

That's not something I would expect to see you write.

This is a genuine question, what do you believe this 'divine architect' to be?

It'd take all week.

Damn I'm honestly interested.

Just someone or something which designed us/everything.

It's all too mathematically perfect.

Something like Spinoza?

[HOGEPH]

Did the Pope perform a miracle?

That would be an ecumenical matter

[otolith]

Seems that praying to dead priests is similar to the ancestor worship of some cultures.