Discussion
People keep talking about the tax on petrol but the price seems to be going up every few days. No point blaming the government who puts the tax up by a few pence from time to time when Shell, BP, Texaco and the rest are the ones that are squeezing us dry.
Well that's how it seems to me.
Well that's how it seems to me.
It's a populist move, and will help election chances.
But politicians of all 3 major parties like spending the cash too much (and enjoy the control it gives them). It's easy money, and they'll put it up instead of bringing it down.
Hence we need a change in the political landscape in the UK.
But politicians of all 3 major parties like spending the cash too much (and enjoy the control it gives them). It's easy money, and they'll put it up instead of bringing it down.
Hence we need a change in the political landscape in the UK.
croyde said:
People keep talking about the tax on petrol but the price seems to be going up every few days. No point blaming the government who puts the tax up by a few pence from time to time when Shell, BP, Texaco and the rest are the ones that are squeezing us dry.
Well that's how it seems to me.
Well that's how it seems to me.
wiki said:
Using the UK average untaxed pump price for unleaded petrol of £0.4572 per litre (from the December 2010 average taxed price of £1.221 per litre,[4] the duty rate of £0.5819 per litre[3] and the then VAT rate of 17.5%) this would give a January 2011 taxed price of £1.256 per litre (£5.71 per imperial gallon or £4.75 per U.S. gallon) - that is equivalent to a tax rate of 175%.
So taxed at 175%, including tax on tax. Fuel is ~45p per litre untaxed and you think it's the oil companies that are squeezing you dry!!!Fair enough but why does fuel keep going up when the government have not announced tax rises and also I did realise that the tax was around 50/60p per litre.
Charging VAT is out of order as it can hardly be seen as a luxury these days.
Charging VAT is out of order as it can hardly be seen as a luxury these days.
Edited by croyde on Saturday 15th January 10:07
Edited by croyde on Saturday 15th January 10:08
Edited by croyde on Saturday 15th January 10:09
croyde said:
Fair enough but why does fuel keep going up when the government have not announced tax rises and also I think that the tax was around 50/60p per litre.
Fuel Escalator - it's automatic. No need to introduce separate legislation each time i.e. a budget.Edited by croyde on Saturday 15th January 10:07
Invidious law making has been going on in this country far too long. Some tax laws are akin to "Enabling Acts". Adolf would be proud. No parliamentary discussion, no debate and no voting is required.
Eric Mc said:
croyde said:
Fair enough but why does fuel keep going up when the government have not announced tax rises and also I think that the tax was around 50/60p per litre.
Fuel Escalator - it's automatic. No need to introduce separate legislation each time i.e. a budget.Edited by croyde on Saturday 15th January 10:07
Invidious law making has been going on in this country far too long. Some tax laws are akin to "Enabling Acts". Adolf would be proud. No parliamentary discussion, no debate and no voting is required.
croyde said:
People keep talking about the tax on petrol but the price seems to be going up every few days. No point blaming the government who puts the tax up by a few pence from time to time when Shell, BP, Texaco and the rest are the ones that are squeezing us dry.
Well that's how it seems to me.
I take it that you were being sarcastic.. oil companys find it pump and refine it put it in a tank in every town and a points along our roads for aprox 45 ppl.. the goverment does what??? apart from taxing it !!!Well that's how it seems to me.
Victor McDade said:
Eric Mc said:
croyde said:
Fair enough but why does fuel keep going up when the government have not announced tax rises and also I think that the tax was around 50/60p per litre.
Fuel Escalator - it's automatic. No need to introduce separate legislation each time i.e. a budget.Edited by croyde on Saturday 15th January 10:07
Invidious law making has been going on in this country far too long. Some tax laws are akin to "Enabling Acts". Adolf would be proud. No parliamentary discussion, no debate and no voting is required.
If CMD has genuinely ended the metropolitan middle class hand wringing (or the victimless tax raising presented as environmentalism) war on the motorist, then let's see it?! That is tax on fuel! If fuel was still priced in gallons rather than litres, the gormless lemmings that is the general public would hav been, all French about it, years ago!
I'd like us to tell the eu to f
k off, enviro ste, I like the idea of a fuel stabiliser except for the likely extra increases from the fuel suppliers ('wholesale price rises, on the open Market' my arse) would appear so they could trough up more cash and the gov would be obliged to take smaller tax take to no benefit.
And if this 'wholesale' bollix is to be believed then the speculators, should be barred from the markets, you buy something for delivery in 3 months time, the time, you have to take delivery not sell it on again. I ultimately see no benefit to the nation, any nation of the commodity speculators artificially rigging a Market. It just takes money out of peoples pockets and puts it in theirs. Unless someone cares to enlighten me?
I'd like us to tell the eu to f
k off, enviro ste, I like the idea of a fuel stabiliser except for the likely extra increases from the fuel suppliers ('wholesale price rises, on the open Market' my arse) would appear so they could trough up more cash and the gov would be obliged to take smaller tax take to no benefit.And if this 'wholesale' bollix is to be believed then the speculators, should be barred from the markets, you buy something for delivery in 3 months time, the time, you have to take delivery not sell it on again. I ultimately see no benefit to the nation, any nation of the commodity speculators artificially rigging a Market. It just takes money out of peoples pockets and puts it in theirs. Unless someone cares to enlighten me?
Edited by Northern Munkee on Saturday 15th January 11:29
Sorry I am being fik here but it is announced when the government is adding tax to fuel yet between those times the pump prices appear to continue to rise on a week by week basis.
Or do I imagine it?
I'm not siding with the people in power just asking the question as I too think that the tax and tax on tax situation is pretty unbearable.
Or do I imagine it?
I'm not siding with the people in power just asking the question as I too think that the tax and tax on tax situation is pretty unbearable.
croyde said:
Sorry I am being fik here but it is announced when the government is adding tax to fuel yet between those times the pump prices appear to continue to rise on a week by week basis.
Or do I imagine it?
I'm not siding with the people in power just asking the question as I too think that the tax and tax on tax situation is pretty unbearable.
So there shouldn't be VAT on things that you buy out of your taxed wages then?Or do I imagine it?
I'm not siding with the people in power just asking the question as I too think that the tax and tax on tax situation is pretty unbearable.
And, come to that, supermarket staff should not pay income tax, as the profits that they are paid from were made with goods bought with money that had been taxed when it was earned?
Do answer the question. I not arguing about what tax we pay I just want to know how come petrol increasingly rises even when no tax has been added.
More puzzling considering that the actual price is around 45p.
Hang on I see that Eric MC has already answered. Cheers.
More puzzling considering that the actual price is around 45p.
Hang on I see that Eric MC has already answered. Cheers.
Edited by croyde on Saturday 15th January 12:05
it certainly will not be cut.
1. we need the money.
2. people are used to it.
3. diesel isn't even as high as it was in 2008 so inflation adjusted it could move up another 10p to match it in real terms.
4. the fuel duty is due to rise about 6 pence in april so they may only raise it a little or possibly even scrap it completely but they certainly won't cut it.
plus, more and more and more people are driving economical cars myself included so they are getting less petrol and diesel revenue from cars so for petrol etc i can't see it being cut.
october also has a fuel duty rise and so on.
its going up at the moment as the price of oil has gone up to around $99 from about $92 recently.
1. we need the money.
2. people are used to it.
3. diesel isn't even as high as it was in 2008 so inflation adjusted it could move up another 10p to match it in real terms.
4. the fuel duty is due to rise about 6 pence in april so they may only raise it a little or possibly even scrap it completely but they certainly won't cut it.
plus, more and more and more people are driving economical cars myself included so they are getting less petrol and diesel revenue from cars so for petrol etc i can't see it being cut.
october also has a fuel duty rise and so on.
its going up at the moment as the price of oil has gone up to around $99 from about $92 recently.
croyde said:
Sorry I am being fik here but it is announced when the government is adding tax to fuel yet between those times the pump prices appear to continue to rise on a week by week basis.
Or do I imagine it?
I'm not siding with the people in power just asking the question as I too think that the tax and tax on tax situation is pretty unbearable.
oil is going up croyde, no question about it mate. just google oil prices or look at the market data on the bbc website.Or do I imagine it?
I'm not siding with the people in power just asking the question as I too think that the tax and tax on tax situation is pretty unbearable.
roughly a $2 rise in oil prices means a penny increase at the pump - oil has been rising recently and it takes a bit of time to filter through.
IT IS NOT THE OIL COMPANIES MILKING US DRY MATE. IT IS NOT REALLY THE GOVERNMENT THAT MUCH EITHER. Fuel is just more expensive, look at the exchange rate and yes, ok they tax it but not that much more than other european countries and we do live in a small country.
we need the money, plain and simple. labour passed on a massive deficit.
the honest answer is we need to increase income tax,increase vat, increase national insurance, increase fuel duty, increase stealth taxes and cut spending.
find the figures on the net - we are STILL spending tens and tens of billions of pounds each year more than we get in revenue. We have not yet started cutting the deficit.
dave9 said:
it certainly will not be cut.
1. we need the money.
2. people are used to it.
3. diesel isn't even as high as it was in 2008 so inflation adjusted it could move up another 10p to match it in real terms.
4. the fuel duty is due to rise about 6 pence in april so they may only raise it a little or possibly even scrap it completely but they certainly won't cut it.
plus, more and more and more people are driving economical cars myself included so they are getting less petrol and diesel revenue from cars so for petrol etc i can't see it being cut.
october also has a fuel duty rise and so on.
its going up at the moment as the price of oil has gone up to around $99 from about $92 recently.
Your point about more economical cars is very valid. My old E36 averages around 17/19 around town so I could half my fuel costs with a newer car just like that yet it would mean an immediate outlay of thousands if not tens of thousands of pounds. Not economical considering that I only do about 4000 miles a year plus I love that old Beemer.1. we need the money.
2. people are used to it.
3. diesel isn't even as high as it was in 2008 so inflation adjusted it could move up another 10p to match it in real terms.
4. the fuel duty is due to rise about 6 pence in april so they may only raise it a little or possibly even scrap it completely but they certainly won't cut it.
plus, more and more and more people are driving economical cars myself included so they are getting less petrol and diesel revenue from cars so for petrol etc i can't see it being cut.
october also has a fuel duty rise and so on.
its going up at the moment as the price of oil has gone up to around $99 from about $92 recently.
Thanks for your answers.
croyde said:
dave9 said:
it certainly will not be cut.
1. we need the money.
2. people are used to it.
3. diesel isn't even as high as it was in 2008 so inflation adjusted it could move up another 10p to match it in real terms.
4. the fuel duty is due to rise about 6 pence in april so they may only raise it a little or possibly even scrap it completely but they certainly won't cut it.
plus, more and more and more people are driving economical cars myself included so they are getting less petrol and diesel revenue from cars so for petrol etc i can't see it being cut.
october also has a fuel duty rise and so on.
its going up at the moment as the price of oil has gone up to around $99 from about $92 recently.
Your point about more economical cars is very valid. My old E36 averages around 17/19 around town so I could half my fuel costs with a newer car just like that yet it would mean an immediate outlay of thousands if not tens of thousands of pounds. Not economical considering that I only do about 4000 miles a year plus I love that old Beemer.1. we need the money.
2. people are used to it.
3. diesel isn't even as high as it was in 2008 so inflation adjusted it could move up another 10p to match it in real terms.
4. the fuel duty is due to rise about 6 pence in april so they may only raise it a little or possibly even scrap it completely but they certainly won't cut it.
plus, more and more and more people are driving economical cars myself included so they are getting less petrol and diesel revenue from cars so for petrol etc i can't see it being cut.
october also has a fuel duty rise and so on.
its going up at the moment as the price of oil has gone up to around $99 from about $92 recently.
Thanks for your answers.
a lot of people lease new cars but that's still spending money. you can lease a citroen c1 for £59 plus vat per month.
but, most people now get a second hand hatchback when their new car goes bang. eg a citroen c2, fiesta, clio etc etc etc.
range rovers and bentleys are not as popular as they were - people opt for the bluemotions now as people are getting shrewd.
my car now does 60mpg and my old daily used to do 27 so I don't really care if fuel went to £2.50 per litre as i'd still be better off than before, so when the e36 goes bang, get a little diesel that can do 65 mpg and for every £100 you spend on your old car in petrol you will only have to spend about £25 so you will be far better off.
but yes, alas, sadly you will be in a diesel not a rear drive beemer but in day to day driving there is no difference whatsoever in my opinion. I just use it to go to the gym, supermarket, pub and all little driving trips and I don't really care what i drive.
one thing is for sure though, its only going up!
croyde said:
Fair enough but why does fuel keep going up when the government have not announced tax rises and also I did realise that the tax was around 50/60p per litre.
Charging VAT is out of order as it can hardly be seen as a luxury these days.
The last time oil prices were this high petrol was much cheaper as tax was lower. The tax went up several times in the past few years and now oil has started climbing again the added tax is pushing the total through the roof.Charging VAT is out of order as it can hardly be seen as a luxury these days.
Edited by croyde on Saturday 15th January 10:07
Edited by croyde on Saturday 15th January 10:08
Edited by croyde on Saturday 15th January 10:09
croyde said:
dave9 said:
it certainly will not be cut.
1. we need the money.
2. people are used to it.
3. diesel isn't even as high as it was in 2008 so inflation adjusted it could move up another 10p to match it in real terms.
4. the fuel duty is due to rise about 6 pence in april so they may only raise it a little or possibly even scrap it completely but they certainly won't cut it.
plus, more and more and more people are driving economical cars myself included so they are getting less petrol and diesel revenue from cars so for petrol etc i can't see it being cut.
october also has a fuel duty rise and so on.
its going up at the moment as the price of oil has gone up to around $99 from about $92 recently.
Your point about more economical cars is very valid. My old E36 averages around 17/19 around town so I could half my fuel costs with a newer car just like that yet it would mean an immediate outlay of thousands if not tens of thousands of pounds. Not economical considering that I only do about 4000 miles a year plus I love that old Beemer.1. we need the money.
2. people are used to it.
3. diesel isn't even as high as it was in 2008 so inflation adjusted it could move up another 10p to match it in real terms.
4. the fuel duty is due to rise about 6 pence in april so they may only raise it a little or possibly even scrap it completely but they certainly won't cut it.
plus, more and more and more people are driving economical cars myself included so they are getting less petrol and diesel revenue from cars so for petrol etc i can't see it being cut.
october also has a fuel duty rise and so on.
its going up at the moment as the price of oil has gone up to around $99 from about $92 recently.
Thanks for your answers.
Sure if you're looking for a new car anyway go for it but otherwise it's just silly.
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