Colin McRae Fatal accident enquiry - Errr why ??

[weyland yutani]

Victor McDade said:

If only he'd taken his own advice:

'you've got to abide by the rules and know the limitations of the helicopter'

Indeed. Sad that such a talented rally driver died but even more tragic that two young boys will never get to be doctors, firemen, football players or whatever they dreamed of becoming one day.

[Mojocvh]

Soovy said:

HoHoHo said:

There are some machines and hobbies in this life that deserve utmost respect. Boxes with blades turning around on top are probably at the top of that list, and to fly without a license and insurance isn't silly, it's absolutely mental.

A good point well made. I am a very keen clay shooter, been shooting for 20 years. And you will never ever see me take a gun out of a sling before I have broken it open and checked it is safe.

The number of "experienced" and "good" shooters who flout this fundamental rule still shocks me.

O/T thing in title sorry.

Oh yes soov, one of my fav bugbears.
With wildfowling, an supposed solitary sport, the requirement to use "non" toxic shot has lead to extremely heavy metals being used as the basis for large shotgun pellets. Puts a new meaning to both "solitary" and "take your head off"!

Edited by Mojocvh on Wednesday 7th September 00:57

[julian64]

wendyg said:

With deep regret, I have lost all respect for the man.
Such recklessness and arrogance, coupled with a 'can't be bothered' attitude.

Couldn't be bothered to renew his licence.
Couldn't be bothered to make sure he was insured.
Couldn't be bothered to ask his friends if he could take their child for a helicopter 'thrill flight'

What else couldn't he be bothered to do?
Basic pre-flight inspection?
Safety assessment?

Oh come on, I didn't know him for adam, I'm just arguing against the basic hypocracy on this thread.


Do you really think the parents didn't know where there children were. Imagine you are the parent of a child that age. Do you think you'd really lose your child and not know it was in a helicopter somewhere. Would you lose sight of a child that age for more than a few minutes before you started to panic?

You have to be so careful with both the crash investigation and the further claims after the fact as reported by the newspaper because the people that could provide any counterpoint are gone.

If an illegal immigrant (the most stupid point raised on this thread) hit a child, I would prosecute the adult for not having a licence. But I wouldn't be stupid enough to see it as causal to the accident, or even contributary.

Imagine a time in this country before there were driving licences. Does that mean everyone driving was incapable?

The CAA is a buracratic nightmare in this country and the very picture of a nanny organisation even compared to teh American equivalent, which is why so many British pilots have their airplanes on the American register in this country. Does that mean they are using a loophole to avoid an organisation which is flawed compared to its american counterpart, or because they are all just incapable.

Its a tragic event but I think you will have to decide here whether you see it as a tragic event from someone you previously had respect for, or whether you want to join the lynchmob because doing so gives you a deep down warm feeling of belonging.

Every so often I just watch this process of a forming lynch mob forming on pistonheads egged on by the same old faces, and every so often I think the subject matter is important enough to look like the odd one out.

[heebeegeetee]

wendyg said:

With deep regret, I have lost all respect for the man.
Such recklessness and arrogance, coupled with a 'can't be bothered' attitude.

Couldn't be bothered to renew his licence.
Couldn't be bothered to make sure he was insured.
Couldn't be bothered to ask his friends if he could take their child for a helicopter 'thrill flight'

What else couldn't he be bothered to do?
Basic pre-flight inspection?
Safety assessment?

I'm afraid I completely agree.

Tbh, I was never that great a fan of his anyway, having being disappointed too many times with all the crashes. Essentially I think Colin was a very selfish person who really didn't give much thought for anyone else, including the very people who should have been dearest to him.

He could drive a car well, but that's all. He shouldn't really be a PH hero, imo.

[Eric Mc]

julian64 said:

wendyg said:

With deep regret, I have lost all respect for the man.
Such recklessness and arrogance, coupled with a 'can't be bothered' attitude.

Couldn't be bothered to renew his licence.
Couldn't be bothered to make sure he was insured.
Couldn't be bothered to ask his friends if he could take their child for a helicopter 'thrill flight'

What else couldn't he be bothered to do?
Basic pre-flight inspection?
Safety assessment?

Oh come on, I didn't know him for adam, I'm just arguing against the basic hypocracy on this thread.


Do you really think the parents didn't know where there children were. Imagine you are the parent of a child that age. Do you think you'd really lose your child and not know it was in a helicopter somewhere. Would you lose sight of a child that age for more than a few minutes before you started to panic?

You have to be so careful with both the crash investigation and the further claims after the fact as reported by the newspaper because the people that could provide any counterpoint are gone.

If an illegal immigrant (the most stupid point raised on this thread) hit a child, I would prosecute the adult for not having a licence. But I wouldn't be stupid enough to see it as causal to the accident, or even contributary.

Imagine a time in this country before there were driving licences. Does that mean everyone driving was incapable?

The CAA is a buracratic nightmare in this country and the very picture of a nanny organisation even compared to teh American equivalent, which is why so many British pilots have their airplanes on the American register in this country. Does that mean they are using a loophole to avoid an organisation which is flawed compared to its american counterpart, or because they are all just incapable.

Its a tragic event but I think you will have to decide here whether you see it as a tragic event from someone you previously had respect for, or whether you want to join the lynchmob because doing so gives you a deep down warm feeling of belonging.

Every so often I just watch this process of a forming lynch mob forming on pistonheads egged on by the same old faces, and every so often I think the subject matter is important enough to look like the odd one out.

McRae has no need of a lynch-mob - he effectively lynched himself.

I am pretty sure that the number of motor racers who have died in air accidents is disproprtionate to the number of ordinary pilots who die in air accidents. It would be an interesting study to carry out because I think the competitive, "press-on" mentality of competitive racers may be a factor in getting them into scrapes that they find impossible to recover from.

And we all know that one of the key aspects of the motor racing mindset is how best to circumvent the rules and regulations.

[bicycleshorts]

Eric Mc said:

I am pretty sure that the number of motor racers who have died in air accidents is disproprtionate to the number of ordinary pilots who die in air accidents. It would be an interesting study to carry out because I think the competitive, "press-on" mentality of competitive racers may be a factor in getting them into scrapes that they find impossible to recover from..

Hill, McRae...?

[julian64]

Eric Mc said:

McRae has no need of a lynch-mob - he effectively lynched himself.

I am pretty sure that the number of motor racers who have died in air accidents is disproprtionate to the number of ordinary pilots who die in air accidents. It would be an interesting study to carry out because I think the competitive, "press-on" mentality of competitive racers may be a factor in getting them into scrapes that they find impossible to recover from.

And we all know that one of the key aspects of the motor racing mindset is how best to circumvent the rules and regulations.

You quite rightly state the stereotypical. Racing driver, good at taking risks when others would step back, pushing the envelope.

The stereotype would then be to consider that they don't make good pilots. Piloting is very organised structured disciplined emotionless. Probably ideal for an accountant.

Colin McCrae is falling foul of your stereotype, and that is having some bearing on the lynch mob.

But the logic is flawed because the stereotype of the pilot being structured disciplined and emotionless is a relatively recent one from the 'Top Gun' TV era. The old stereotype of pilots, you know, the ones that won the last war and before, were larger than life characters, sort of barnstormers who were anything but, and probably fitted the Colin McCrae personallity better than curent pilots.

The idea of an ICEMAN type is its own stereotype. It convinces you that not owning a licence makes you a bad pilot, being a racing driver doesn't fit your stereotype so you are prepared to make judgements, flying a jolley throuhg some countryside makes you a bad pilot compared to following a GPS line makes you a bad pilot.

None of this is true in my book. Its possible he was a pretty good pilot wh opushed the envolope, or a pretty poor pilot with more confidence than ability.

I don't know, but for you lot to have made a decision seems unreasonable

[heebeegeetee]

It's his wife I truly feel sorry for. Lost her husband and her child, no doubt lost friends and is likely to lose her home.

[Eric Mc]

julian64 said:

Eric Mc said:

McRae has no need of a lynch-mob - he effectively lynched himself.

I am pretty sure that the number of motor racers who have died in air accidents is disproprtionate to the number of ordinary pilots who die in air accidents. It would be an interesting study to carry out because I think the competitive, "press-on" mentality of competitive racers may be a factor in getting them into scrapes that they find impossible to recover from.

And we all know that one of the key aspects of the motor racing mindset is how best to circumvent the rules and regulations.

You quite rightly state the stereotypical. Racing driver, good at taking risks when others would step back, pushing the envelope.

The stereotype would then be to consider that they don't make good pilots. Piloting is very organised structured disciplined emotionless. Probably ideal for an accountant.

Colin McCrae is falling foul of your stereotype, and that is having some bearing on the lynch mob.

But the logic is flawed because the stereotype of the pilot being structured disciplined and emotionless is a relatively recent one from the 'Top Gun' TV era. The old stereotype of pilots, you know, the ones that won the last war and before, were larger than life characters, sort of barnstormers who were anything but, and probably fitted the Colin McCrae personallity better than curent pilots.

The idea of an ICEMAN type is its own stereotype. It convinces you that not owning a licence makes you a bad pilot, being a racing driver doesn't fit your stereotype so you are prepared to make judgements, flying a jolley throuhg some countryside makes you a bad pilot compared to following a GPS line makes you a bad pilot.

None of this is true in my book. Its possible he was a pretty good pilot wh opushed the envolope, or a pretty poor pilot with more confidence than ability.

I don't know, but for you lot to have made a decision seems unreasonable

There are old pilots and bold pilots - but there are very few old, bold pilots.

Pilots come in all shapes and sizes. The individual who makes a good combat pilot is probably the last person you want ferrying you on your hols to Ibiza.
Pushing the envelope is all well and good if that is what you are paid to do - but pushing it with children on board is unforgiveable.

Racing drivers are more like combat pilot in their mind set.

Other motor racing individuals killed in air crashes include -

Wilbur Shaw
Davy Allison
Bertie and Mark Fisher
Steve Hislop
David Leslie (as a passenger, of course)

[Get Karter]

David Coulthard was in a plane crash too.

Like Leslie, was a passenger....but it is quite amazing how many have been in air crashes.

The moral is - never get in a plane with a racing driver!

[Eric Mc]

They do probably spend a larger amount of time in the air compared to most of us - but no more than celebs from other less fast paced walks of life.

[Jerry Can]

Wurls said:

This has destroyed the legend of McRae and will almost certainly nobble his estate.

Absolutely no winners.

Very very sad.

I've been looking the compensation amounts up.

assuming he is negligent or his actions could be possibly criminal, then compensation would be paid to relatives of the deceased. But not McRaes wife for obviousy reasons.

I don't know the marital status of Graeme Duncan, but assuming he was married with 1 child, and earning about £40k pa then a typical compo award would be about £1m - not insigificant but more than covered by the sale of the home. this would certainly be consistent with the compensation my SIL received after her husband was killed by a sleeping lorry driver.

As for the child, I am not certain that there are any guidelines beyond compensation for loss of parental duties and some such emotional loss, so I wouldn't necessarily expect a 6 figure sum, and possibly far less.

they will of course have to pay the legal fees which won't be cheap. In summary I'd expect somewhere between 1-2m.

The difference with Graham Hills accident is that 6 people were killed and they were all economically active with dependents, bar Tony Brise. And it was his parents who wanted the balance of his retainer as compensation. Approx £3m in today's money.

[vetrof]

Victor McDade said:

If only he'd taken his own advice:

'you've got to abide by the rules and know the limitations of the helicopter'

That's quite a telling quote. I would suggest the limitations of the pilot are reached before those of the aircraft in most cases.

It takes a lot of hours before you should even consider yourself a decent pilot.

[Hugo a Gogo]

flying a helicopter fast at low altitude - any mistake or mechanical failure is a fatal crash

far too much of a risk for passengers, especially kids, especially someone else's kids

I only hope they didn't suffer

[Rude-boy]

Get Karter said:

The moral is - never get in a plane with a racing driver!

I have been driven 1,000's of miles by racing drivers of all levels from F1 down.

I have not got, and never will, knowingly get into any contraption designed to leave the ground which is under the control of a professional racing driver.