Happy you voted Tory?

[Globs]

KenBlocksPants said:

I am sadly mistaken and the Libs seem to be taking it up the Oxo on a regular basis and not having any affect on the harshness of the cuts (Dont get my wrong they are needed, but I think its too much too soon)

Bear in mind that the deficit is _still_ increasing, mainly down to interest charges on the loans created during NuLabour (about £4,000,000,000,000 worth now).

[RichB]

Globs said:

Bear in mind that the deficit is _still_ increasing, mainly down to interest charges on the loans created during NuLabour (about £4,000,000,000,000 worth now).

Never lose sight of the fact that left or right, or in between, Gordon Brown first as chancellor and then PM financially crippled the UK and whoever is in govenrment will be paying for his dogmatic stupidity for deacdes - "There is no money" as Liam Byrne said! - Be in no doubt Gordon Brown should be remembered as the worst British chancellor in living history.

[s2art]

KenBlocksPants said:

My key area of concern is education and I stumbled across this as a very specific (but seemingly representative) example of what is happening on the ground:

http://www.porchester.notts.sch.uk/files/newslette...

Mr Gove is making some terrible mistakes in my opinion.

So all in all I feel in a state of limbo with the whole situation really

From your link, £28,000 per year for capital projects and some IT kit. WTF. How does a primary school manage to spend 28K per year on that?

Edited by s2art on Friday 4th February 21:05

[The real Apache]

I'm encouraged by Camerons speech in Germany.
Labour failed dismally with their utopian idea of a 'Multicultural Society' and their open door immigration policy, I only hope his actions support his words

[grumbledoak]

It isn't really a Utopian idea. It's what happens naturally when you fk up your immigration policy. But, as in amateur pool, it's always easier to claim you meant to do it than admit you are fking useless.

[F93]

ARGH

I wish people would stop claiming immigration is a bad thing for the country!

Anyone with any sense of economics should at least acknowledge that it represents an increase in long-run aggregate supply and hence benefits the economy.

They don't steal any jobs, they simply take jobs that fat sleaze bags are too lazy to turn off Sky Sports for. On top of this it increases the quantity of labour which helps in the long term.

Labour's immigration system worked fine.
Tier 1= economic migrants and low-skilled workers. Since 2008 virtually none of these have come over here, from in or outside the Eu.
Tier 2= skilled workers (increase in quality of labour, pretty important) who are very much needed for any sound economy. Thank god that the tories CAPPED this number to 20,000! WHY DO WE NEED MORE FOREIGN MASTERS STUDENTS? oh wait, because they create economic output.

Of course, cue the xenophobes blithering on about 'oh but they're ALL terrorists and they ALL use the NHS and they ALL suck up benefits and they're ALL REALLY THICK.

SHUT UP! Who do you lot think you are? Some sort of statistical experts?! NO! Surprisingly, the UK is actually a very nice place to live compared to Africa or India/Pakistan, so don't think they have no reason to come here!

Of course, Labour's immigration policy was by 2008 fine. But no no, all immigrants have a hysterically negative effect on every possible part of life in the UK. Why, i'm sure ALL immigrants come here with pneumatic drills and dig up the roads! Then, they get injured and spend nine months on the NHS costing £4billion on healthcare and then leave and invite their 400 relatives to come here on full benefits!

This is the one thing that does annoy me about the tories. The right of the party has the above attitude. GROW A BRAIN

[The real Apache]

Dear god, how do you manage to pack in so much generalised assumption into one post? it has to be a record

[F93]

The real Apache said:

Dear god, how do you manage to pack in so much generalised assumption into one post? it has to be a record

It's not my whole-hearted opinion, but nearly everyone I talk to has that opinion... its a big assumption to say that everyone has a big assumption, but you only have to look on comments on any story about immigration to perhaps see why I feel like this...

[The real Apache]

F93 said:

The real Apache said:

Dear god, how do you manage to pack in so much generalised assumption into one post? it has to be a record

It's not my whole-hearted opinion, but nearly everyone I talk to has that opinion... its a big assumption to say that everyone has a big assumption, but you only have to look on comments on any story about immigration to perhaps see why I feel like this...

To be fair you make some very salient points but I feel you have assumed my views on immigration are a little basic if not somewhat racist. My point is more related to simple volume, but I'm a bit too knackered, worried and pissed to press this right now. later perhaps

[powerstroke]

F93 said:

ARGH

I wish people would stop claiming immigration is a bad thing for the country!

Anyone with any sense of economics should at least acknowledge that it represents an increase in long-run aggregate supply and hence benefits the economy.

They don't steal any jobs, they simply take jobs that fat sleaze bags are too lazy to turn off Sky Sports for. On top of this it increases the quantity of labour which helps in the long term.

Labour's immigration system worked fine.
Tier 1= economic migrants and low-skilled workers. Since 2008 virtually none of these have come over here, from in or outside the Eu.
Tier 2= skilled workers (increase in quality of labour, pretty important) who are very much needed for any sound economy. Thank god that the tories CAPPED this number to 20,000! WHY DO WE NEED MORE FOREIGN MASTERS STUDENTS? oh wait, because they create economic output.

Of course, cue the xenophobes blithering on about 'oh but they're ALL terrorists and they ALL use the NHS and they ALL suck up benefits and they're ALL REALLY THICK.

SHUT UP! Who do you lot think you are? Some sort of statistical experts?! NO! Surprisingly, the UK is actually a very nice place to live compared to Africa or India/Pakistan, so don't think they have no reason to come here!

Of course, Labour's immigration policy was by 2008 fine. But no no, all immigrants have a hysterically negative effect on every possible part of life in the UK. Why, i'm sure ALL immigrants come here with pneumatic drills and dig up the roads! Then, they get injured and spend nine months on the NHS costing £4billion on healthcare and then leave and invite their 400 relatives to come here on full benefits!

This is the one thing that does annoy me about the tories. The right of the party has the above attitude. GROW A BRAIN

My guess is the above assumes we we have the luxury of being able to support our own economicly inactive which IMHO we dont so if we dont want to go bankrupt or alleast maintain some standard of living, we need to get our own in work its the same as borrowing money to keep the economy going, the figures have to ballance someday , not the fairyland view the left has....

[Globs]

F93 said:

t's not my whole-hearted opinion, but nearly everyone I talk to has that opinion... its a big assumption to say that everyone has a big assumption, but you only have to look on comments on any story about immigration to perhaps see why I feel like this...

Well the fact is there are too many immigrants. The UK is so easy to get into - try settling in Australia or America, they have strict controls that we need. Having those controls does not make the UK racist unless you already think the US is racist.

The pressure for housing, land, road space, food etc is too great for the UK, it's overpopulated compared to the rest of europe.

Trying to pretend every immigrant is an earnest doctor or engineer doesn't cut it because many are benefit tourists from the EU that cost us a fortune and take good housing stock away from working people.

A block on immigration needs to be accompanied by a block on benefits, I don't want immigrants picking fruit in Norfolk because the benefit system supports our own unemployed in luxurious idleness, I want to force the lazy unemployed into the fields to work.

[RichB]

Globs said:

A block on immigration needs to be accompanied by a block on benefits, I don't want immigrants picking fruit in Norfolk because the benefit system supports our own unemployed in luxurious idleness, I want to force the lazy unemployed into the fields to work.

Exactly... it is typical of the left that they dish out benefits to get their votes...

[AstonZagato]

I am happy to see immigrants coming to this country as long as they are net contributors. My maternal grandparents were penniless immigrants here in the 30's and worked hard to achieve a standard of living that was unthinkable in Cyprus at the time. They certainly never expected handouts. Immigrants who work and don't claim (could we put a block on benefits in their first 5 years, say?) should be welcomed by everyone.

As for the weight on the NHS and teaching system, this should not be underestimated. My wife is a consultant paediatrician and she sees many parents from Eastern Europe with handicapped children. They appear on the first day of their residency on which they are entitled to care. They make no bones about it - they have come to the UK because they cannot get the care for their severely handicapped children in their own country. The parents are mostly in gainful employment here in the UK rather than on benefits. My wife's patient workload has expanded considerably but the resources have, by and large, not kept up. She now refuses to have translators as her budget does not stretch to that but rather tells them to bring a friend to translate (which they do happily).

[ukwill]

CiF would have a collective heartattack if they saw this thread...

[mercGLowner]

AstonZagato said:

(could we put a block on benefits in their first 5 years, say?)

This, yes. Anyone who comes here as an economic migrant should probably contribute to the Country, via taxation, before benefiting from the Welfare State, and probably the NHS. This would help sorting the chaff and benefit tourists.

Coupled with this the Welfare State should be radically reformed to support those in genuine need and not those who make the choice to do fk all but claim. Reform should be go a lot further than that already proposed.

[grumbledoak]

mercGLowner said:

This, yes. Anyone who comes here as an economic migrant should probably contribute to the Country, via taxation, before benefiting from the Welfare State, and probably the NHS.

Agree. But what would you do about A&E? It's not uncommon for a 'visiting African tourist' to go to A&E and keel over. Everyone knows to go get the gloves.

I needed A&E in Australia once. Working for five years first wasn't really an option.

[powerstroke]

grumbledoak said:

Agree. But what would you do about A&E? It's not uncommon for a 'visiting African tourist' to go to A&E and keel over. Everyone knows to go get the gloves.

I needed A&E in Australia once. Working for five years first wasn't really an option.

Health insurance??????

[grumbledoak]

powerstroke said:

Health insurance??????

Yes, I had plenty. And we're on a reciprocal in Australia anyway.


But what do you suggest for the Africans 'visiting relatives'?

[powerstroke]

grumbledoak said:

Yes, I had plenty. And we're on a reciprocal in Australia anyway.


But what do you suggest for the Africans 'visiting relatives'?

Quick patch up and onto the next flight??? or how are you going to pay for your
friend.... yes we take visa that will do nicely thank you... maybe if the sweetie jar is empty it wont get visited

Edited by powerstroke on Sunday 6th February 18:14

Edited by powerstroke on Sunday 6th February 18:15

[mercGLowner]

grumbledoak said:

Agree. But what would you do about A&E? It's not uncommon for a 'visiting African tourist' to go to A&E and keel over. Everyone knows to go get the gloves.

I needed A&E in Australia once. Working for five years first wasn't really an option.

Anyone who comes here and doesn't qualify for free NHS treatment should have travel insurance and/or health insurance for the duration of their visit. Would you travel to the US or anywhere else abroad without travel insurance? I wouldn't. They may give you emergency treatment without proving you can pay, beyond that you need to have cover or a credit card with a very high limit.

I did a Freedom of Information request to the Department of Health a couple of months back, researching this very issue. My questions surrrounded how much the NHS recovers from non-entitled NHS users - ie. non EU residents and those not domiciled in the UK. The figures proved that the NHS does not persue non entitled users with the vigour that they should do and most of the costs, running into ten of millions is written off. This isn't right, they should be persued and made to pay. The UK needs to develop a corporate backbone in this regard. That message needs to be loud and clear to those who try and come here who cannot support themselves.

My wife worked in a hospital where some US citizens who had to go to A&E were asked if they had health insurance, they flew off the handle and were exceptionally abusive to staff. I suspect they beleived that they were in the UK and were therefore entitled to free healthcare. I don't know what happened next, but I can guess.