Obama really doesn't like us does he?

[ErnestM]

Tadite said:

If you're going to try to be pedantic then at least do it on something that makes an actual point. Mentioning that the Senate ratifies treaties is irrelevant. START is Obama doing the correct thing by maintaining and building upon nearly 30 years of bilateral treaties and negotiations between the US and Russia. Starting with Reagan, signed by Bush H, and now rebuilt and signed by Obama. That's how the real world works. Decades of continuous policy. That's why the Senate ratified it just like they did the previous versions and this also brings up the point that these things are negociated by numerious departments within the government but on the biggest issues it's by the White House and the President. Not the Senate so I'm not sure why you think that because they ratified it that somehow takes away from the people who built it and the person who did the most is the President and yes it is actually important.

As for this whole wikileaks thing. It's a bilateral treaty so to a large extent the British don't matter. You're talking reducing more deployed nuclear weapons in the world by a greater amount then the combined totals of either the British or the French combined. When you're talking at about such amounts the handful either country has deployed at one time doesn't matter. Besides I'm surprised none of you have figured out why the Russians asked... The reason is that that Britain, or Europe in general, doesn't depend on domestic defense. Sure you have two nuclear armed nations but in reality actual defense is created via the US Military Umbrella with the most important aspect of it being the NATO treaty. Russia asked because they should worry that the US would be hiding additional weapons outside of the bilateral treaty in NATO member states or under control of states with a high level of treaty obligation. But at the end of the day they just seemed to move on. More important things to worry about.

I was just pointing out that the person's referenced comment made them sound like a know nothing Obama accolyte.

Personally, I don't like "New Start". It ignores an entire class of nuclear weapons; tactical, or battlefield nukes. This treaty leaves Russia with a 10 to 1 advantage.

Now this revelation that in order to get the Russians to sign, Obama gives out information about an ally?

As you said - the UK had no place in this treaty. With all due respect to Vlad and company, maybe they should have hammered out a treaty with the UK to get this information.

Or...

IIRC, wasn't Mr. Brown still in charge when this thing was being negotiated? Are we sure that Brown didn't sanction the release of information? Just asking.

[Willie Dee]

Martial Arts Man said:

Are you for real?

[Jimbeaux]

jains15 said:

Who cares what an American thinks of us? I don't have any respect for the country so couldn't give a monkeys whattheir so called leader thinks of ours. They can do and think what they like.

I love you too; well thought out post.....trash the whole country for our community organizer.

[Tadite]

ErnestM said:

Personally, I don't like "New Start". It ignores an entire class of nuclear weapons; tactical, or battlefield nukes. This treaty leaves Russia with a 10 to 1 advantage.

Good point. Think the reason this one, and the previous version didn't, is that tactical nukes aren't all that scary when you're all the way across the world. If we had a nuclear war it would be beyond academic as every single major population center of both countries would be hit so the short-range stuff isn't really relevant at that point.

This START is just one step among many. Even after this treaty the basic maths still valid which is, according to the DoD, a single Ohio Class has enough damage capacity to destroy every single major industrial center (by which we mean everything of importance) in Russia. Brings the numbers into context when we have 18 of them. Of course they also have similar capacity.

ErnestM said:

Now this revelation that in order to get the Russians to sign, Obama gives out information about an ally?

As you said - the UK had no place in this treaty. With all due respect to Vlad and company, maybe they should have hammered out a treaty with the UK to get this information.

Or...

IIRC, wasn't Mr. Brown still in charge when this thing was being negotiated? Are we sure that Brown didn't sanction the release of information? Just asking.

Very good point. Thing I dislike about this little news report is that we really have only one very limited piece of information. The START treaty was negotiated over an amazingly long period of time with a huge amount of communication. Just having a tinny piece of it doesn't really explain all that much. That and even though this article is designed to be very anti-American according to it we didn't actually turn over the "secret" information which was the total amount of weapons, something that we'd clearly know. The serial numbers for the Tridents isn't all that important. Everyone knows how many the British have as those are all nice and easy to count on the 4 current subs (I think one or two is broken?). If anything it's just a minor piece of information which I'm not all that sure why people would make a fuss.

[fathomfive]

FourWheelDrift said:

US Gov - "This Trident missile is 55ft long is painted white and goes bang"
Russian - "oooooooh"
US Gov - "This is another Trident missile it is also 55ft long is painted white and goes bang"
Russian - "oooooooh"
US Gov - "This is also another Trident missile it is also 55ft long is also painted white and also goes bang"
Russian - "oooooooh"
Russian - "What about that one?"
US Gov - "That is a fridge"
Russian - "oooooooh"

[Oldred_V8S]

spikeyhead said:

+1

The article said
but the US agreed to hand over the serial numbers of Trident missiles it transfers to Britain.

Let's face it, that's about as much use as knowing the serial number of the gun that the mugger is pointing at you.

Surely despite whether the knowledge is useful or not, the issue is that Barry asked if we would pass on the information, we said no, so he did it anyway. Utter Ct

[tank slapper]

Oldred_V8S said:

Surely despite whether the knowledge is useful or not, the issue is that Barry asked if we would pass on the information, we said no, so he did it anyway. Utter Ct

No he didn't. He was asked for technical specifications of missiles supplied to the UK, which was refused.

[Jimbeaux]

A a general response to the OP's thread topic.....He doesn't like us here either; he spends everyday trying to undo the nation our forefathers bled and died building.

[MOTORVATOR]

Jimbeaux said:

A a general response to the OP's thread topic.....He doesn't like us here either; he spends everyday trying to undo the nation our forefathers bled and died building.

History biting you in the arse Jim, them bloody Egyptians selling us all that cotton wot done it. I got those supplies, you found a tree yet?

[escargot]

Getting a bit fking sick of the merkins right now.

[Puggit]

article said:

Although the treaty was not supposed to have any impact on Britain, the leaked cables show that Russia used the talks to demand more information about the UK’s Trident missiles, which are manufactured and maintained in the US.

So what exactly happens at AWE and Burghfield?

[MOTORVATOR]

Puggit said:

So what exactly happens at AWE and Burghfield?

What where we make our own designed and manufactured nuclear warheads that we put onto a conventional ballistic missile that we partnered the states in at the deferrence of our v bombers / bluestreak / skybolt / polaris. The agreement being that it would not be publicised precisely how many missiles were deployed at any one time and our own business as to how many or what size of warheads are carried on each missile in order to maintain our threat level.

Is that where you mean?

[anonymous-user]

Lesson learned - if you want to develop something of such significance keep it in-house, no partner nations.

[eharding]

Puggit said:

So what exactly happens at AWE and Burghfield?

Lots of earthworks, but not a lot of new stuff being built, last time I had a look.

I did once fly the Air Attache of a non-aligned nuclear power - and therefore a bone-fide spook - a quick orbit of Burghfield, as part of the "Call me Moose" gig in the Yak, and pointed out that was our bomb factory. His response was along the lines of "I know, can we go and fly some aerobatics now please?"

[Brighton Derly]

Puggit said:

So what exactly happens at AWE and Burghfield?

AWE is where our warheads are refurbished.

[Jimbeaux]

MOTORVATOR said:

Jimbeaux said:

A a general response to the OP's thread topic.....He doesn't like us here either; he spends everyday trying to undo the nation our forefathers bled and died building.

History biting you in the arse Jim, them bloody Egyptians selling us all that cotton wot done it. I got those supplies, you found a tree yet?

Not quite that dramatic; simply pointing out that our leader and his wealth redistribution campaign is about to string himself up. As to your windup, try elsewhere.

[Jimbeaux]

escargot said:

Getting a bit fking sick of the merkins right now.

You are breaking my heart. Call up Barry O and explain your distaste for his actions. While you're at it, tell him I don't like his ass either.....tha'll fix'em.

Edited by Jimbeaux on Tuesday 8th February 01:56