City Centre Flat developments knowingly Oversold
Discussion
No sympathy from me either. I know people who rode the boom, built up a "property portfolio" and bought the Range Rover Sport all on credit. Now they can't pay it back, the crazy thing is they are still in denial trying to live the lifestyle, desperately trying to cling onto their 5 bedroom home and the image. All they have left is to look for someone else to blame.
Steffan said:
If a Valuation can fall without any liability to the valuer by 75% in a period of over 6 years where on average property values rose by in excess of 50% surely there MUST be some comeback on the valuer. If this is correct there is no sense in valuations for a borrower other than to give a professional fees. The service has no real value to the client.
Why should there be comeback? I could buy a property for a fair value then watch its value slump because the local economy slumped because the big local employer left, or a major factory went up nearby, or regulations change and that mineshaft / stream / large tree nearby is now flagged up as a liability on the survey. Also any protection would probably end up feeding some scam where property was overvalued then the compensation split.I have more sympathy for people who's conveyancers and surveyors didn't spot a potential issue that should have been obvious too them. Like poor building quality or short leases.
Steffan said:
If a Valuation can fall without any liability to the valuer by 75% in a period of over 6 years where on average property values rose by in excess of 50% surely there MUST be some comeback on the valuer. If this is correct there is no sense in valuations for a borrower other than to give a professional fees. The service has no real value to the client.
They compare against the market.Do you expect a surveyor/valuer to write a paper on why the property market was/is in a state of stupidity?
I agree with everything everyone has said with regard to the unwise nature of the investment, the inadequate care taken by the individual who made this investment and the market always tending to return to normality after a sudden rise in values.
NO ONE should invest pension funds in this way it was extremely unwise and he has paid the price.
I suppose my hackles rise in this case when I look at the ridiculous figures franked by the valuer, the commissions paid to the introducer and the general snouts in the trough approach to the market as it was when this occurred.
I just do not like the pure greed at any price attitude of the Housing market at that time that was generated largely by the lenders and their cohorts. These are the people I am seeking to pursue.
I see a clear link between these attitudes and the attitudes of the Mortgage Lenders who have been bailed out in their entirety by the taxpayer, kept their bonuses and their pensions and are now living offshore by courtesy of the taxpayer.
My client made fundamental mistakes in business and lost everything.
The Bankers made fundamental mistakes in business ON A FAR BIGGER SCALE and kept everything, pensions protected, status the same as before courtesy of the Taxpayer.
Is this fair? Is this actionable? Those are my questions.
NO ONE should invest pension funds in this way it was extremely unwise and he has paid the price.
I suppose my hackles rise in this case when I look at the ridiculous figures franked by the valuer, the commissions paid to the introducer and the general snouts in the trough approach to the market as it was when this occurred.
I just do not like the pure greed at any price attitude of the Housing market at that time that was generated largely by the lenders and their cohorts. These are the people I am seeking to pursue.
I see a clear link between these attitudes and the attitudes of the Mortgage Lenders who have been bailed out in their entirety by the taxpayer, kept their bonuses and their pensions and are now living offshore by courtesy of the taxpayer.
My client made fundamental mistakes in business and lost everything.
The Bankers made fundamental mistakes in business ON A FAR BIGGER SCALE and kept everything, pensions protected, status the same as before courtesy of the Taxpayer.
Is this fair? Is this actionable? Those are my questions.
scenario8 said:
AVeryNaughtyBoy said:
Stuff about how estate agents drive prices up and are largely unregulated / not professionalised.
I think you may have simplified the whole process a little too far. In my experience and honest opinion the number an agent sticks on a photo in his window has less significance on the number recorded on the TR1 than the opinion of the professionals and the sentitment of the broader economy.
Rightmove for sale price stats may be read by agents and used as part of the sales process to potential purchasers but are not that interesting to the "professionals".
However, Right Move release information to the press about house prices. This drives public opinion which then leads to people accepting higher prices and working out how to get the money together. This ultimately influences the opinion of the professionals. When times are good and credit is free and easy this happens more quickly.
When things get less good, over the last few years for example, the controlling forces become more dominant and prices do indeed fall, or at least stabilise. Cue loads of estate agents going under / merging. As soon as things pick up a bit the cycle begins again.
I have never understood why the most widely publicised house prices are from Right Move and not the Land Registry.
Mattt said:
Steffan said:
If a Valuation can fall without any liability to the valuer by 75% in a period of over 6 years where on average property values rose by in excess of 50% surely there MUST be some comeback on the valuer. If this is correct there is no sense in valuations for a borrower other than to give a professional fees. The service has no real value to the client.
They compare against the market.Do you expect a surveyor/valuer to write a paper on why the property market was/is in a state of stupidity?
AVeryNaughtyBoy said:
I have never understood why the most widely publicised house prices are from Right Move and not the Land Registry.
Do RightMove not get their values from the Land Registry? There seems to be little point in gathering data on what people are asking, as it often bears no resemblance to the figure paid.It's not been mentioned yet but a lot of these overvalued apartments owners were given 10% cash back which they were then encouraged to buy another one or ten as effectivlry they were given 100% mortgages just to flog them, then to comply with planning agreements the last 15% were given over to social housing, prams in hallways generally leads to a further fall in value....surely these now crying speculators should have worked out that a 2 bedroom leasehold flat with stick on convector radiators should not be worth more than a freehold 3 bedroom house in the same area...but no greed and simplicity took over.
Ozzie Osmond said:
I think the Bolsheviks and some revolting Frenchmen might disagree, at least as regards the former!
Fine if we can stick a few estate agents head on the Tower then we also need a few speculators - now who was the 'speculator' in this particular case? Definition of Speculator on the Web:-
•someone who risks losses for the possibility of considerable gains
anonymous said:
[redacted]
That's the beauty of "gurus" is it not?The ability to make others believe their message.
Same old, always has been, always will be.
Rationality, logic, the preserve of few.
Anyway, gotta admire good salesmanship.
Although, sometimes, it appeared the salesmen believed their own hype and didn't know when to jump ship and move on.
A lot of the 'professionals' (esp. lawyers and estate agents) who used to earn from sales have now turned their hand to letting. If you look, you'll see they've all got websites which talk about '20 years experience' (20 seems to be some sort of benchmark). Ok, this is the UK, and everyone's a crook, but I used to wonder why so many of them - esp. the ones with more righteous brand images - were stating this particular outright lie. I found out last week. This is how it works. If you opened the doors last year, and have been managing 20 flats for a year, that means you've got 20 years letting experience!! Lol!! I think that's flippin' hilarious!!!!
PS: For OP. Here's one way to advise your type of client to safeguard against being fooled by sharp letting practitioners:
If they've been attracted to a letting agent by the (20 years) experience the agent boasts, and if they meet the agent who turns out to be 25 years old, they should ask themselves how likely it is that this person began managing property at 5 years of age?
PPS: In the UK, professionals et al aren't crooked, they're 'flexible'. MPs, judges, QCs, solicitors, brokers, accountants, bankers, property agents, surveyors, you, and especially me. Not 'crooked'. 'FLEXIBLE'. Some are less flexible than others, but that's the only difference.
PS: For OP. Here's one way to advise your type of client to safeguard against being fooled by sharp letting practitioners:
If they've been attracted to a letting agent by the (20 years) experience the agent boasts, and if they meet the agent who turns out to be 25 years old, they should ask themselves how likely it is that this person began managing property at 5 years of age?
PPS: In the UK, professionals et al aren't crooked, they're 'flexible'. MPs, judges, QCs, solicitors, brokers, accountants, bankers, property agents, surveyors, you, and especially me. Not 'crooked'. 'FLEXIBLE'. Some are less flexible than others, but that's the only difference.
Im sitting in a flat that has sunk in value by about £30k since i bought it in 2006. I accept that i paid alot more out of convenience that it was brand new and had a deposit contribution and that subsequently flats have been hit hard in this area due to over-supply but i guess i just sit on it and it'll right itself.
The service charge on the other hand; now that has been a con! The residents are in the process of sacking the present company and going with a reasonable local rental agent.
The service charge on the other hand; now that has been a con! The residents are in the process of sacking the present company and going with a reasonable local rental agent.
Steffan said:
Interesting.
If a Valuation can fall without any liability to the valuer by 75% in a period of over 6 years where on average property values rose by in excess of 50% surely there MUST be some comeback on the valuer. If this is correct there is no sense in valuations for a borrower other than to give a professional fees. The service has no real value to the client.
So how muck is Gordon Brown going to give us for selling gold at the wrong point.If a Valuation can fall without any liability to the valuer by 75% in a period of over 6 years where on average property values rose by in excess of 50% surely there MUST be some comeback on the valuer. If this is correct there is no sense in valuations for a borrower other than to give a professional fees. The service has no real value to the client.
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