City Centre Flat developments knowingly Oversold
Discussion
NoelWatson said:
groan said:
(maybe the author hasn't noticed the teensy weensy expansion in the post-crunch number of people entering the rental market at all levels from agent to tenant - apart, of course, from the lenders who, as we all know, haven't much idea or appetite for profit-making). Crash? Things have never been better I'd say.
I certainly haven't .....Blib said:
Greed should be allowed to run riot. It's only by being affected by the consequences of their actions do individuals and society learn.
Hmm, not sure I agree with that. I think it is interesting that we have increasingly adopted the American theory of the free market and cut out laws and regulations on trade and banking we had for sometimes hundreds of years because of it. That everything should be unregulated as the market will find a level is naive thinking. and to adopt this theory from a country with an alarmingly short history is a case of not understanding the value of history at all.
america's institutions and cultural background has no history of a time when a completely unregulated market existed in the world, it sprang into a world regulated and rigid and wanted to fight against those injustices as it saw them. Prior to the 1700s most of the world just did what they wanted trade wise, much as some US politicians would like it now. The governments and guilds of the day gradually introduced regulation, not as protectionism in the way these politicians now want it to be seen but to regulate people's greed. Take copywrite. One of our oldest regulations on trade, for what was a relatively new tech. The law was introduced against much protest from printers and investors because authors were not being paid for work they did and yet were seeing their works published by different printers all over London and Europe. Can you imagine a world without it now, or JK Rowling living in a council flat while Hollywood made millions?
Or even something as simple as weights and measures. What if my 10kilos weighs less than yours and I am selling you flour. Thats ok as you won't buy from me again right? wrong, because you don't know I'm actually swindling you because no-one knows how much 10kilos is. That is free trade at its most basic and uncorrupted.
People sometimes need to be saved against themselves the art of government has always been how much so and for how long.
but this is all off subject. This housing market is not something that needs regualtion, just a snap out of this mindset that prices always rise. Mr King 10% rate rise please...(i'm joking)
Edited by Mikeyboy on Monday 7th March 14:37
OP - why not post up the postcode of the flat he bought. We can then checkout the property, sold prices, curretn prices.
How many did he buy? Were they all in the same block/area
I run a letting agency and am amazed at how much some agents overprice or the owners tell me how much they want it let for when in reality its a lot less. I do sadly have about 18 yrs worth of experience but we do look after over 400 properties so is that 7200 yrs worth of experience !! hahah ??
How many did he buy? Were they all in the same block/area
I run a letting agency and am amazed at how much some agents overprice or the owners tell me how much they want it let for when in reality its a lot less. I do sadly have about 18 yrs worth of experience but we do look after over 400 properties so is that 7200 yrs worth of experience !! hahah ??
Edited by superlightr on Monday 7th March 14:42
Mikeyboy said:
Blib said:
Greed should be allowed to run riot. It's only by being affected by the consequences of their actions do individuals and society learn.
Hmm, not sure I agree with that. I think it is interesting that we have increasingly adopted the American theory of the free market and cut out laws and regulations on trade and banking we had for sometimes hundreds of years because of it. That everything should be unregulated as the market will find a level is naive thinking. and to adopt this theory from a country with an alarmingly short history is a case of not understanding the value of history at all.
america's institutions and cultural background has no history of a time when a completely unregulated market existed in the world, it sprang into a world regulated and rigid and wanted to fight against those injustices as it saw them. Prior to the 1700s most of the world just did what they wanted trade wise, much as some US politicians would like it now. The governments and guilds of the day gradually introduced regulation, not as protectionism in the way these politicians now want it to be seen but to regulate people's greed. Take copywrite. One of our oldest regulations on trade, for what was a relatively new tech. The law was introduced against much protest from printers and investors because authors were not being paid for work they did and yet were seeing their works published by different printers all over London and Europe. Can you imagine a world without it now, or JK Rowling living in a council flat while Hollywood made millions?
Or even something as simple as weights and measures. What if my 10kilos weighs less than yours and I am selling you flour. Thats ok as you won't buy from me again right? wrong, because you don't know I'm actually swindling you because no-one knows how much 10kilos is. That is free trade at its most basic and uncorrupted.
People sometimes need to be saved against themselves the art of government has always been how much so and for how long.
but this is all off subject. This housing market is not something that needs regualtion, just a snap out of this mindset that prices always rise. Mr King 10% rate rise please...(i'm joking)
Edited by Mikeyboy on Monday 7th March 14:37
I say again. If your greed overtakes your good sense and you decide to dive in then, on your head be it.
Caveat Emptor. Buyer beware.
scotal said:
...The Land Registery figures ought to be the most accurate, but they are skewed by the time it takes for sales to be reported to them, compiled onto their systems and analysed...
They exclude Repos, as well as a few other non-normal sales.http://www.landreg.gov.uk/kb/Default.asp?ToDo=view...
You can find the price including these transactions if you buy the proper report from the landreg for a few quid. I was happy to see my landlord bought my place as a repo at 60% of the last price shown on the open register from 18 months before.
Rightmove is indeed asking prices
http://www.rightmove.co.uk/news/house-price-index/...
Rightmove said:
The index differs from other house price indicators in that it reflects asking prices when properties first come onto the market, rather than those recorded by lenders during the mortgage application process or final sales prices reported to the Land Registry.
They do have a land reg section, but their index is asking prices.WhoseGeneration said:
Best you do some research about leasehold property.
Potential for lots of "issues".
Time was when leasehold, apart from very specific situations and areas, was, for the normal buyer, best avoided.
I like to consider myself as slight above average intelligence so I can imagine the pitfalls and the chances of these flats turning into the slums of the 21st century as the build quality looks poor compared to the flats of the 60s!Potential for lots of "issues".
Time was when leasehold, apart from very specific situations and areas, was, for the normal buyer, best avoided.
Won't say no at £40k though!
Right, I will freely admit to not having read the whole thread but here's a few points for the OP:
1. the housing market is a market like any other, subject to peaks and troughs;
2. the "value" of any property is only a valuation at that momemt in time and is no guarantee as to future value - future valuation can be affected by local issues (oversupply, local development, chavvy neighbours etc) or national ones (shrinkage of mortgage market, banking crisis, housing bust);
3. you don't have to pay the valuation, or indeed buy at all;
4. if your client bought in 2003 and sold in 2007, he would probably have made a profit;
5. if your client bought in 2003 and sold in 2016, he might still break even on his investment;
6. your client chose to sell in the market trough, thereby realising his loss;
7. the estate agent's job is to act for the developer, not your client;
8. the surveyor's job is to reach a then current market valuation, which may have been right at the point he made it;
9. the lawyer's job is to point out any defects in title or obligations such as service charges that should be brought to his client's attention; it's not his job to second guess the valuation;
10. the developer's job is to make as much money as he can.
11. your client's "job" was to take independent advice about the quality of his investments, and the wisdom of sinking his life savings in one asset class, and then to monitor his investments to ensure they remained "sensible";
12. your client appears not to have done his "job";
13. I can't see any action here unless you can prove the 2003 valuation was negligent;
14. even if you could do that, your client had plenty of opportunity to minimise his loss by selling before the market crashed;
15. there's no conspiracy here that I can see; it seems your client made a bad investment; end of.
1. the housing market is a market like any other, subject to peaks and troughs;
2. the "value" of any property is only a valuation at that momemt in time and is no guarantee as to future value - future valuation can be affected by local issues (oversupply, local development, chavvy neighbours etc) or national ones (shrinkage of mortgage market, banking crisis, housing bust);
3. you don't have to pay the valuation, or indeed buy at all;
4. if your client bought in 2003 and sold in 2007, he would probably have made a profit;
5. if your client bought in 2003 and sold in 2016, he might still break even on his investment;
6. your client chose to sell in the market trough, thereby realising his loss;
7. the estate agent's job is to act for the developer, not your client;
8. the surveyor's job is to reach a then current market valuation, which may have been right at the point he made it;
9. the lawyer's job is to point out any defects in title or obligations such as service charges that should be brought to his client's attention; it's not his job to second guess the valuation;
10. the developer's job is to make as much money as he can.
11. your client's "job" was to take independent advice about the quality of his investments, and the wisdom of sinking his life savings in one asset class, and then to monitor his investments to ensure they remained "sensible";
12. your client appears not to have done his "job";
13. I can't see any action here unless you can prove the 2003 valuation was negligent;
14. even if you could do that, your client had plenty of opportunity to minimise his loss by selling before the market crashed;
15. there's no conspiracy here that I can see; it seems your client made a bad investment; end of.
The value of any item or property that is widely enough advertised to the relevant set of purchasers will tend to be the price bid by the immediate underbidder.
By definition the purchaser pays "over the odds" (because nobody else is willing to pay that amount - or it would have sold for more). The underbidder has shown what he is willing to pay for the asses and this price is the price that the purchaser could expect to get. On the day!
The correct value will vary depending on the number of items for sale, the supply of money/mortgages and the general sentiment of the relevant set of purchasers, fashion plays a part.
Russ
By definition the purchaser pays "over the odds" (because nobody else is willing to pay that amount - or it would have sold for more). The underbidder has shown what he is willing to pay for the asses and this price is the price that the purchaser could expect to get. On the day!
The correct value will vary depending on the number of items for sale, the supply of money/mortgages and the general sentiment of the relevant set of purchasers, fashion plays a part.
Russ
E Ponym said:
The value of any item or property that is widely enough advertised to the relevant set of purchasers will tend to be the price bid by the immediate underbidder.
By definition the purchaser pays "over the odds" (because nobody else is willing to pay that amount - or it would have sold for more). The underbidder has shown what he is willing to pay for the asset and this is the price that the purchaser could expect to get. On the day!
The correct value will vary depending on the number of items for sale, the supply of money/mortgages and the general sentiment of the relevant set of purchasers; fashion plays a part.
Russ
By definition the purchaser pays "over the odds" (because nobody else is willing to pay that amount - or it would have sold for more). The underbidder has shown what he is willing to pay for the asset and this is the price that the purchaser could expect to get. On the day!
The correct value will vary depending on the number of items for sale, the supply of money/mortgages and the general sentiment of the relevant set of purchasers; fashion plays a part.
Russ
Those wishing to deal professionally in the property market should download the above and learn it off by heart.
superlightr said:
OP - why not post up the postcode of the flat he bought. We can then checkout the property, sold prices, curretn prices.
How many did he buy? Were they all in the same block/area
Original Postcode B1 Central Birmingham. Buyer bought two flats here six others in and around.How many did he buy? Were they all in the same block/area
Edited by superlightr on Monday 7th March 14:42
Steffan said:
superlightr said:
OP - why not post up the postcode of the flat he bought. We can then checkout the property, sold prices, curretn prices.
How many did he buy? Were they all in the same block/area
Original Postcode B1 Central Birmingham. Buyer bought two flats here six others in and around.How many did he buy? Were they all in the same block/area
Edited by superlightr on Monday 7th March 14:42
The person bought 8 flats so probably 500k of leveraged investment? Would you have any sympathy if they has invested the same in spread bets and lost? Did they even consider the possibilty that the investment could go down?
Unfortunately speculators with no business sense were driving the bubble as much as easy finance.
Digga said:
I know some very wierd s
t went on in the height of the boom.
I remember enquiring about some flats somewhere in/around docklands which were newly advertised in the previous day's Sun Times. Got hold of the EA - can't remeber who it was now - to be told "they're all sold to "an investment company". Oh really?
Well why go to the cost of advertising then? I smelled bullst and backed away from the whole thing immediately, but what was all that about?
This is how Grant Boveys dream homes worked.t went on in the height of the boom.I remember enquiring about some flats somewhere in/around docklands which were newly advertised in the previous day's Sun Times. Got hold of the EA - can't remeber who it was now - to be told "they're all sold to "an investment company". Oh really?
Well why go to the cost of advertising then? I smelled bulls
t and backed away from the whole thing immediately, but what was all that about?Essentially, the investment company negotiates a substantial discount from the developer to buy the whole lot.
The investment company then takes out a glossy advert in the Porperty Supplements of national newspapers offering "guaranteed rental returns" to investors over a period of 2-3 years.
The investment company profit = (sales price to mug investor - 2-3 rental payments net of any actual income received)- discounted bulk purchase price paid to developer.
In reality, the rental demand was never there.
jdw1234 said:
This is how Grant Boveys dream homes worked.
Essentially, the investment company negotiates a substantial discount from the developer to buy the whole lot.
Well, as it transpires, they were welcome to them. Essentially, the investment company negotiates a substantial discount from the developer to buy the whole lot.
Although I reckon the ones I'd looked at were (from memory and been to sleep a few times since then) rentable and still would be.
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