"Why is there no looting in Japan" - interesting comments!!
Discussion
groan said:
I have a very good friend whose father was tortured by the Japanese in one of their concentration camps during WW2. He weighed 60lbs when he was liberated. I don't think he shared the views on this thread regarding either the honour or the civilisation of the Japanese.
Yeah, but we're staying away from that as it rather vindicates all the people on Facebook that weren't exactly supportive of Japan's current predicament.groan said:
I have a very good friend whose father was tortured by the Japanese in one of their concentration camps during WW2. He weighed 60lbs when he was liberated. I don't think he shared the views on this thread regarding either the honour or the civilisation of the Japanese.
Whilst I don't want this to turn into a thread which goes way off course, you have to consider what "surrender" means to the Japanese - Dishonour - and those without honour are to be held in contempt, less than human if you will. If you think of it this way, hundreds of civilians killed themselves rather than surrender to the Americans, and thousands of soldiers fought to the death rather than surrender. It is simply a different mentality to those of us in Europe.Jasandjules said:
groan said:
I have a very good friend whose father was tortured by the Japanese in one of their concentration camps during WW2. He weighed 60lbs when he was liberated. I don't think he shared the views on this thread regarding either the honour or the civilisation of the Japanese.
Whilst I don't want this to turn into a thread which goes way off course, you have to consider what "surrender" means to the Japanese - Dishonour - and those without honour are to be held in contempt, less than human if you will. If you think of it this way, hundreds of civilians killed themselves rather than surrender to the Americans, and thousands of soldiers fought to the death rather than surrender. It is simply a different mentality to those of us in Europe.groan said:
I have a very good friend whose father was tortured by the Japanese in one of their concentration camps during WW2. He weighed 60lbs when he was liberated. I don't think he shared the views on this thread regarding either the honour or the civilisation of the Japanese.
My wife's father was a prisoner of war. He was captured by the Japanese but the guards in his camp were Korean.My son married a Japanese girl. Her nationality was never a factor.
My father lost five brothers in the two world wars, and a greater number of brothers-in-law. He worked with a German national and was great friends with him. They met around 1955.
Let it go. Every country has bits in its past that would, if it really meant anything, be worrying but the sins of the fathers should not be visited on the sons. We don't want the Northern Ireland scenario of keep mentioning Drogheda just as if someone should be punished for it hundreds of years later.
Jasandjules said:
If you think of it this way, hundreds of civilians killed themselves rather than surrender to the Americans, and thousands of soldiers fought to the death rather than surrender. It is simply a different mentality to those of us in Europe.
Hundreds? Thousands? Clearly not a mentality shared by the tens of millions of Japanese who DID surrender to the Americans. Obviously they preferred surrender (the European mentality?) either to suicide or to death-by-nuke, either of which were available options.Anyway what honour or civilisation is there in torturing an unarmed and defenceless captured soldier? And this wasn't an isolated incident. This was commonplace conduct. And not how Europeans behave, other than in isolated incidents.
Derek Smith said:
My wife's father was a prisoner of war. He was captured by the Japanese but the guards in his camp were Korean.
My son married a Japanese girl. Her nationality was never a factor.
My father lost five brothers in the two world wars, and a greater number of brothers-in-law. He worked with a German national and was great friends with him. They met around 1955.
Let it go. Every country has bits in its past that would, if it really meant anything, be worrying but the sins of the fathers should not be visited on the sons. We don't want the Northern Ireland scenario of keep mentioning Drogheda just as if someone should be punished for it hundreds of years later.
So do you think The Holocaust is something we should just forget as well? Well, I won't disagree, but there's something you obviously don't understand about these things. It's the thing that keeps Jews hunting for old concentration camp staff regardless of their age or the elapse of time. My son married a Japanese girl. Her nationality was never a factor.
My father lost five brothers in the two world wars, and a greater number of brothers-in-law. He worked with a German national and was great friends with him. They met around 1955.
Let it go. Every country has bits in its past that would, if it really meant anything, be worrying but the sins of the fathers should not be visited on the sons. We don't want the Northern Ireland scenario of keep mentioning Drogheda just as if someone should be punished for it hundreds of years later.
Streps said:
For some people to use this event as an act of revenge against these poor people is just sad.
Especially the children who have sadly died in this horrendous event.
It's not 1945 it's 2011.
Of FFS, think about the children, ohh the children...since when are children more fEspecially the children who have sadly died in this horrendous event.
It's not 1945 it's 2011.
king important? The adults are just as much victims.Finlandia said:
groan said:
And not how Europeans behave, other than in isolated incidents.
Nazi Germany, DDR and the entire Soviet block, ex Yugoslavia, etc, etc. I wouldn't call that "isolated incidents".
Anyway back on track, a time and place, and all that.
groan said:
Hundreds? Thousands? Clearly not a mentality shared by the tens of millions of Japanese who DID surrender to the Americans. Obviously they preferred surrender (the European mentality?) either to suicide or to death-by-nuke, either of which were available options.
They followed the Order of their Emperor who didn't want to see his nation wiped out. Oh, and even them, some killed themselves rather than surrender to the Americans......And if you want to talk about Europeans, look up the crusades and what we did to people (including thousands of women and children who surrendered), then consider what the Romans did to prisoners, then you can move on to the Conquistadors and I could go on, and on, with more examples from history about how Europeans are not all that Civilised in the main....
SplatSpeed said:
lack of burbury
keeps crime to a minimum!
who'd have thought... burberry-shares-fall-on-japan-worrieskeeps crime to a minimum!
groan said:
So do you think The Holocaust is something we should just forget as well? Well, I won't disagree, but there's something you obviously don't understand about these things. It's the thing that keeps Jews hunting for old concentration camp staff regardless of their age or the elapse of time.
I, and I assume the Jews as well, should not blame the descendents of those who committed the atrocities. They are innocent of the offences.My father was ashamed of the bombing of Dresden. It had nothing to do with me and there is no chance that any German can make me feel guilty about it. My father, a lowly RSM, wasn't asked to give the final go-ahead.
Should we blame all Russians for the horror of the pogram that was Russia under Stalin?
I don't think we should forget the Holocaust, not the slaughter on the Somme nor the various battles of Ypres, but I don't think we should blame Vettel or criticise him for not apologising for it.
I understand the desire for retribution but I feel it harms the person, and quite severely.
I'm half catholic Irish and some of those in my family used to hate the English for what they did under Cromwell. Absolutely nonsensical. They were nutters and the hate they had in them made them lonely and rather ridiculous. The hail mary brigade we called them.
And the same goes for all those who harbour hatred and enjoy it. Let it go is my feeling. It harms you more than any other person.
Remember by all means, and we should I believe, but don't keep up the pretence that the Japanese of today have anything to do with the Burma railway or the road that my father-in-law worked on. Some of the really nasty Japanese and Germans got away with their horrific crimes. But that's life.
tinman0 said:
Mr Dave said:
(Hmm, what floats in black sacks? Must be all those tins of food he found).
groan said:
I have a very good friend whose father was tortured by the Japanese in one of their concentration camps during WW2. He weighed 60lbs when he was liberated. I don't think he shared the views on this thread regarding either the honour or the civilisation of the Japanese.
You have to remember that many many Japanese soldiers were treated extremely brutally while in the army, treatment which would easily amount to torture, remembering also that in many places they were starved so severely that they had to resort to eating other Japanese soldiers to survive and that in many cases the Japanese soldiers that were the cruelest in the camps were Koreans. Japanese soldiers were used mostly to fight, Koreans were often used for rear echelon postings such as camps and so on.Doesnt make it right at all, accounts from POW camps, the hell ships, the research facilities in Manchuria and so all, are in many cases more horrific than what happened in Germany. Very hard to read about and thankfully almost impossible to fathom. However stories of how normal Japanese soldiers were treated were also harrowing.
Jasandjules said:
They followed the Order of their Emperor who didn't want to see his nation wiped out. Oh, and even them, some killed themselves rather than surrender to the Americans......
And if you want to talk about Europeans, look up the crusades and what we did to people (including thousands of women and children who surrendered), then consider what the Romans did to prisoners, then you can move on to the Conquistadors and I could go on, and on, with more examples from history about how Europeans are not all that Civilised in the main....
Well excuse my lack of understanding here, but if the Emperor didn't have this 'death before dishonour' mentality and if those who did, and killed themselves over it amounted to 'some', and the vast majority (10's of millions?) shared the Emperor's mentality, then, apart from a very small minority (and what nation DOESN'T have them) what's so different, never mind superior, about the Japanese mentality?And if you want to talk about Europeans, look up the crusades and what we did to people (including thousands of women and children who surrendered), then consider what the Romans did to prisoners, then you can move on to the Conquistadors and I could go on, and on, with more examples from history about how Europeans are not all that Civilised in the main....
Is your reference to European atrocities (in the context of the well-documented barbarism of the Japanese) yet another reinforcement of the same thing? Why not accept that in terms of concepts like 'civilisation' and 'honour' (and, I suspect, every other aspect of humanity) there is really very little or no difference between humans on a racial basis?
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