Meanwhile, In Syria
Discussion
Russians are flatly denying that either they or the Syrians bombed any aid convoy in the area:
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-09-20/moscow-de...
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-09-20/moscow-de...
said:
"No airstrikes were carried out against a humanitarian aid convoy in a southwestern suburb of Aleppo by Russian or Syrian aviation. Seeing as the convoy’s route lied through the territories controlled by militants, the Russian reconciliation center monitored its passage yesterday via drones," Russian Defense Ministry spokesman Maj. Gen. Igor Konashenkov said Tuesday.
According to the general, the monitoring finished when all humanitarian aid was delivered at around 10:40 GMT.
"Further movements of the convoy were not monitored by the Russian side. Only the militants controlling this area know details of the convoy’s location," Konashenkov added. The examination of video footage reveals no signs of an ammunition strikes on the convoy, he said.
"We have carefully studied videos by so-called activists from the site and found no signs of any ammunition striking the convoy. There are no shell holes, cars' bodies are not damaged and there are no construction faults from the bust wave. All shown on the footage is a direct consequence of the cargo being set on fire. The fire strangely coincided with a major offensive by militants in Aleppo."
Should be interesting to see where this goes - if it suddenly disappears off the news without explanation, it will be a good indication that all was not as claimed originally.According to the general, the monitoring finished when all humanitarian aid was delivered at around 10:40 GMT.
"Further movements of the convoy were not monitored by the Russian side. Only the militants controlling this area know details of the convoy’s location," Konashenkov added. The examination of video footage reveals no signs of an ammunition strikes on the convoy, he said.
"We have carefully studied videos by so-called activists from the site and found no signs of any ammunition striking the convoy. There are no shell holes, cars' bodies are not damaged and there are no construction faults from the bust wave. All shown on the footage is a direct consequence of the cargo being set on fire. The fire strangely coincided with a major offensive by militants in Aleppo."
Government has no strategy, no plan and only ‘phantom’ allies in Syria, scathing Commons report reveals
article said:
The Government is failing to implement its policy of making war on Isis in Syria which it was supposed to have launched nine months ago after rancorous debate.
A report by the House of Commons Defence Committee published on Wednesday says that there have been only 65 UK air raids in Syria during this period, compared to 550 in Iraq. Some 31 of these were in the first two months of the air campaign, since when the number has fallen to between three and seven air strikes a month
A report by the House of Commons Defence Committee published on Wednesday says that there have been only 65 UK air raids in Syria during this period, compared to 550 in Iraq. Some 31 of these were in the first two months of the air campaign, since when the number has fallen to between three and seven air strikes a month
BlackLabel said:
Government has no strategy, no plan and only ‘phantom’ allies in Syria, scathing Commons report reveals
"Having ruled out acting in concert with the Assad government, whose displacement is a centrepiece of British policy, British military action in theory presupposes the existence of a powerful “third force” on the ground in Syria. The report says that “despite extensive correspondence with the Ministry of Defence, the committee was unable to obtain the Government’s list of which groups the UK was supporting in Syria.” It concludes that the real reason why the UK air operation in Syria is so small, despite rhetorical comparisons with resisting Hitler during last year’s Commons debate, is “mainly the lack of partners on the ground, other than Kurdish forces."article said:
The Government is failing to implement its policy of making war on Isis in Syria which it was supposed to have launched nine months ago after rancorous debate.
A report by the House of Commons Defence Committee published on Wednesday says that there have been only 65 UK air raids in Syria during this period, compared to 550 in Iraq. Some 31 of these were in the first two months of the air campaign, since when the number has fallen to between three and seven air strikes a month
A report by the House of Commons Defence Committee published on Wednesday says that there have been only 65 UK air raids in Syria during this period, compared to 550 in Iraq. Some 31 of these were in the first two months of the air campaign, since when the number has fallen to between three and seven air strikes a month
Who would have thought, the "moderate Islamist fundamentalists" are simply a PR fabrication! That cannot be, remember Cameron and Hague extolling the need to bomb everything flat in Syria as the moderates were going to create utopia on Earth in Syria?
No, that cannot be, we were told on this very forum, how the "moderately fundamentalists" were such democratic, freedom loving people, and only shot, hung, threw people off buildings, burnt alive and turned woman into sexual slaves for the very best of reasons. What wonderful allies to provide weapons and air support to, perhaps we can arrange to train some of them to fly, oh right, Al Nusra / Al Qaeda already knows how, landing training not required.
Edited by QuantumTokoloshi on Wednesday 21st September 08:56
skyrover said:
It's sad that there is not a single stable, moderate Islamic country on the planet with a strong representative democracy, equality and human rights.
There is only one country in the middle east that is anywhere close and that's Israel.
Malaysia, Indonesia might disagree with the first statement, it is a pity Turkey has regressed dramatically in the last 5 years.There is only one country in the middle east that is anywhere close and that's Israel.
This just gets murkier and murkier ... even looking at the latest BBC report:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-374248...
Basically, the Americans are saying that there were two Russian SU24s in the air in the area at the time of the alleged attack and implying that they were directly responsible.
The 'Syrian Activists' are saying that they were barrel bombed from helicopters.
The Russians have produced drone footage of the convoy which appears to show the rebels (not clear if they are the 'good' Islamic militants or the 'bad' Islamic militants) using the cover of the convoy to tow a heavy mortar.
The BBC point out that one of the pictures of the aftermath of the attack appears to show a crater, contradicting Russian claims that there was no evidence of munitions dropped but the way that apparently unburned boxes of aid are stacked around the crater and then seem to have fallen in sure doesn't make it look like a bomb landed in the middle of the boxes.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-374248...
Basically, the Americans are saying that there were two Russian SU24s in the air in the area at the time of the alleged attack and implying that they were directly responsible.
The 'Syrian Activists' are saying that they were barrel bombed from helicopters.
The Russians have produced drone footage of the convoy which appears to show the rebels (not clear if they are the 'good' Islamic militants or the 'bad' Islamic militants) using the cover of the convoy to tow a heavy mortar.
The BBC point out that one of the pictures of the aftermath of the attack appears to show a crater, contradicting Russian claims that there was no evidence of munitions dropped but the way that apparently unburned boxes of aid are stacked around the crater and then seem to have fallen in sure doesn't make it look like a bomb landed in the middle of the boxes.
skyrover said:
It's sad that there is not a single stable, moderate Islamic country on the planet with a strong representative democracy, equality and human rights.
There is only one country in the middle east that is anywhere close and that's Israel.
Not so great on respecting the human rights of all the Palestinians pushed into the West Bank and Gaza and denied the right of return to their lands, with their borders tightly controlled by Israel. Gaza is practically the textbook definition of a (huge) concentration camp.There is only one country in the middle east that is anywhere close and that's Israel.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internment
[quote=skyrover]It's sad that there is not a single stable, moderate Islamic country on the planet with a strong representative democracy, equality and human rights.
There is only one country in the middle east that is anywhere close and that's Israel.[/quote
Kuwait is halfway there although I think al - Sabbath the ruler has the final say. Government made up of both sunnier & Shia. Don't think the bedouin have a say as they don't hold citizenship.
Phil
There is only one country in the middle east that is anywhere close and that's Israel.[/quote
Kuwait is halfway there although I think al - Sabbath the ruler has the final say. Government made up of both sunnier & Shia. Don't think the bedouin have a say as they don't hold citizenship.
Phil
QuantumTokoloshi said:
skyrover said:
It's sad that there is not a single stable, moderate Islamic country on the planet with a strong representative democracy, equality and human rights.
There is only one country in the middle east that is anywhere close and that's Israel.
Malaysia, Indonesia might disagree with the first statement, it is a pity Turkey has regressed dramatically in the last 5 years.There is only one country in the middle east that is anywhere close and that's Israel.
When i was last in KL some Filipinos were leaving because they were fed up with the situation
Indonesia has massive problems with fundamentalist Islamic rebels and terrorist groups
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism_in_Indones...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism_in_Indones...
Why would it be sad ?
They function exactly as they want to, often in accordance with their religious teachings/ beliefs.
you can't compare our western democracies - that don't really work, with the written word of God.
Apologies if it has been said before during this thread;
Syria are one of many Arab countries that did not sign up to he in refugee convention in 1951 and 67, so UN / international l pressure for us to accept more refugees seems a little unfair.
Would they have done the same for us ?
They function exactly as they want to, often in accordance with their religious teachings/ beliefs.
you can't compare our western democracies - that don't really work, with the written word of God.
Apologies if it has been said before during this thread;
Syria are one of many Arab countries that did not sign up to he in refugee convention in 1951 and 67, so UN / international l pressure for us to accept more refugees seems a little unfair.
Would they have done the same for us ?
Lucas Ayde said:
This just gets murkier and murkier ... even looking at the latest BBC report:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-374248...
Basically, the Americans are saying that there were two Russian SU24s in the air in the area at the time of the alleged attack and implying that they were directly responsible.
The 'Syrian Activists' are saying that they were barrel bombed from helicopters.
The Russians have produced drone footage of the convoy which appears to show the rebels (not clear if they are the 'good' Islamic militants or the 'bad' Islamic militants) using the cover of the convoy to tow a heavy mortar.
The BBC point out that one of the pictures of the aftermath of the attack appears to show a crater, contradicting Russian claims that there was no evidence of munitions dropped but the way that apparently unburned boxes of aid are stacked around the crater and then seem to have fallen in sure doesn't make it look like a bomb landed in the middle of the boxes.
There is certainly is more to this incident than meets the eye, but it must all be Russian propaganda, trying to besmirch the good name of our "moderately Islamic fundamentalist" allies.http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-374248...
Basically, the Americans are saying that there were two Russian SU24s in the air in the area at the time of the alleged attack and implying that they were directly responsible.
The 'Syrian Activists' are saying that they were barrel bombed from helicopters.
The Russians have produced drone footage of the convoy which appears to show the rebels (not clear if they are the 'good' Islamic militants or the 'bad' Islamic militants) using the cover of the convoy to tow a heavy mortar.
The BBC point out that one of the pictures of the aftermath of the attack appears to show a crater, contradicting Russian claims that there was no evidence of munitions dropped but the way that apparently unburned boxes of aid are stacked around the crater and then seem to have fallen in sure doesn't make it look like a bomb landed in the middle of the boxes.
They would never, ever use, a manufactured incident to elicit a response from Western powers, like a chemical weapon attack perhaps?
Nope, never.
Meanwhile, the great Western democratic allies, the house of Saud, has been introducing MSF doctors and hospitals in Yemen, to the joys of white phosphorus happiness. Nothing to see here. Move along.
del mar said:
Why would it be sad ?
They function exactly as they want to, often in accordance with their religious teachings/ beliefs.
you can't compare our western democracies - that don't really work, with the written word of God.
Apologies if it has been said before during this thread;
Syria are one of many Arab countries that did not sign up to he in refugee convention in 1951 and 67, so UN / international l pressure for us to accept more refugees seems a little unfair.
Would they have done the same for us ?
Worth noting that the Saudis - the main financial backers of both the 'good' and 'bad' Islamic fundamentalist militants in Syria - haven't taken any of their Syrian refugee 'brothers' in.They function exactly as they want to, often in accordance with their religious teachings/ beliefs.
you can't compare our western democracies - that don't really work, with the written word of God.
Apologies if it has been said before during this thread;
Syria are one of many Arab countries that did not sign up to he in refugee convention in 1951 and 67, so UN / international l pressure for us to accept more refugees seems a little unfair.
Would they have done the same for us ?
Still, why should they when flooding through Turkey into generous European states is a much easier option all round, eh?
del mar said:
...Syria are one of many Arab countries that did not sign up to he in refugee convention in 1951 and 67, so UN / international l pressure for us to accept more refugees seems a little unfair.
Would they have done the same for us ?
Interesting point.Would they have done the same for us ?
I'm getting too old and very, very cynical about the World. In my humble opinion, little old Blighty would do well to sit out the next 15 - 20 years of ME crap-fest unless under direct and overt national threat. Not nebulous aggregated terrorism threats that can encompass everywhere and nowhere simultaneously.
Not saying we should do nothing - just not commit our (expensively trained) personnel on the ground, where they will inevitably come under scrutiny from rent-seeking human rights' lawyers for every perceived infringement of past, present and future legislation.
Syria is another model for us to wonder at (with all the other Arab Spring successes). Watch and learn - let the big boys slug it out. Perhaps we'll understand more about the mindset and potential for helping or harming by getting up close and personal.
Whilst sitting back and watching we continue to train and perfect our military to do what's necessary for the UK - border control if needs be - and have a long hard look at our own society, where we'll be dealing with a lot of the fallout from these adventures for years to come.
/thoughtfortheday
BlackLabel said:
"Russia supports the Syrian government, while the US backs the opposition""The opposition"
Sickening stuff.
scherzkeks said:
BlackLabel said:
"Russia supports the Syrian government, while the US backs the opposition""The opposition"
Sickening stuff.
kers for daring to protest against his regime, that is.Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff