Meanwhile, In Syria
Discussion
hidetheelephants said:
Cobnapint said:
Firstly, where would the rebels have acquired these Sarin bombs from?
Secondly, why bother. They are of very, very limited use to them in battle, unless they intended driving up a high mountain road and lobbing one off the back of a Toyota pickup onto Assads forces below, then they are virtually useless.
And thirdly, why would they be storing them in a populated area where 'they' and their own people are?
They would have acquired them by looting SAA depots earlier in the war or by SAA personnel bringing the stuff with them when they deserted and joined the 'not at all fundamentalist and really moderate' rebels.Secondly, why bother. They are of very, very limited use to them in battle, unless they intended driving up a high mountain road and lobbing one off the back of a Toyota pickup onto Assads forces below, then they are virtually useless.
And thirdly, why would they be storing them in a populated area where 'they' and their own people are?
They are useless if you don't have a delivery system; in the absence of aircraft delivery via mortar or rocket fire is plausible, possibly even drone although I'd accept that's unlikely.
Hypothetically Johnny Rebel might store the stuff in populated areas because he's a fundamentalist loon who doesn't care for his own corporeal existence never mind anyone else's, because he's a member of a nutty death cult based on a warped interpretation of a book that tells people that the afterlife is much more important and cooler than actual life, also because he knows that if the US/the west get involved in the future they won't dare attack the storage site.
It's actually quite difficult to get a precursor-based warhead to give a decent agent yield and distribution unless it is detonated in the way it was designed - hence a secondary effect from a conventional Syrian government airstrike on a rebel cache of old stolen weapons is unlikely to have given rise to the level of casualties seen in the recent incident.
Hence the indicators are that the weapon responsible came off a Syrian government aircraft, and was in a reasonable state of serviceability when it detonated.
Whether it was actually directly authorised by the regime, or the work of some over-keen cadre within the military wanting to press their perceived advantage of having tacit approval by the Russians to do whatever they want, and - at the time - complete lack of US interest, is anyone's guess.
QuantumTokoloshi said:
A key question to ask is, who put the Assad dynasty into power? The answer may surprise.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/adamcurtis/entries/d392...
Thanks, nice link. I think I've read it before, but Curtis always gives a nice appreciation of what's has happened.http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/adamcurtis/entries/d392...
Edited by QuantumTokoloshi on Friday 7th April 15:35
Legend83 said:
Setting aside who dropped what and when, what is without doubt is that scenes like these are utterly heart-breaking
Yes, they are designed to be. That's why you are seeing them at the UK propaganda hub, the BBC.There are equally heartbreaking scenes in Yemen, Gaza, Mosul etc. but we don't see those.
The heartbreak in Syria is not due to Sarin however, the White Helmets are touching them with their bare hands and have sandals on - if it was Sarin they'd be dead.
In fact there is evidence that doctors have spotted that the children are being killed by the White Helmets, rather than any gas here:
http://www.veteranstoday.com/2017/04/06/swedish-me...
Swedish_Doctors said:
However, after broader investigation, our team ascertained that the boy was unconscious from an overdose of opiates. The video shows the child receiving injections in his chest, perhaps in the area of the heart and was eventually killed while a clearly fake adrenaline injection was administered.
This was a murder.
Worth remembering that if the US has 59 missiles already lined up and primed to go, if they don't wait for the evidence, if McCain, Lindsey Graham, Hillary, CNN etc all think it's a great idea to bomb Syria: you've been suckered.This was a murder.
Note how the media suddenly stopped attacking Trump when he turned neocon. It was within minutes. The neocons were rebuffed at the front door (Hillary losing) but they've made it in safely through the back door now (Bannon, Flynn, this).
Savage describes it best, worth a listen to what is really going on:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pO5BT7AZLqM
Sorry but savage comes across as a complete nutjob. That being said I did find this and it raises a lot of questions.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MnSAB4qeDug
Most important details for me were adound7-8 mins onwards.
The location of the attacks looks suspect possibly a white helmets base.
The white helmets had tweeted about three or four weeks earlier about receiving new gas masks in case of a sarin attack.
But most importantly hours before the attack took place a member of the media? sympathetic to the "rebel" cause tweeted about the attack and his plan to run a media campaign.
The argument made about the white helmets not using gloves is pointless as its a warzone and they may not have access to supplies.
Another valid point though is that sarin is apparently very fast acting and causes vomiting apparently immediate voiding of bowels etc.
If that's the case why were those helping the victims not suffering the effects since they were wearing very little protective gear.
Likewise how could people be taking photos?
And finally if true and it ties into the behaviour of these monsters aka rebels that apparently 250 people were recently kidnapped from areas nearby by al quaeda and the vehicles in the pictures are apparently the same ones used in the kidnapping and there are claims that some of the victims are from the kidnapping.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MnSAB4qeDug
Most important details for me were adound7-8 mins onwards.
The location of the attacks looks suspect possibly a white helmets base.
The white helmets had tweeted about three or four weeks earlier about receiving new gas masks in case of a sarin attack.
But most importantly hours before the attack took place a member of the media? sympathetic to the "rebel" cause tweeted about the attack and his plan to run a media campaign.
The argument made about the white helmets not using gloves is pointless as its a warzone and they may not have access to supplies.
Another valid point though is that sarin is apparently very fast acting and causes vomiting apparently immediate voiding of bowels etc.
If that's the case why were those helping the victims not suffering the effects since they were wearing very little protective gear.
Likewise how could people be taking photos?
And finally if true and it ties into the behaviour of these monsters aka rebels that apparently 250 people were recently kidnapped from areas nearby by al quaeda and the vehicles in the pictures are apparently the same ones used in the kidnapping and there are claims that some of the victims are from the kidnapping.
Edited by frankenstein12 on Sunday 9th April 13:08
Scotty2 said:
Very interesting.
This does raise valid questions. Will there be an investigation going on behind the scenes?
Why would there be and how could there be?This does raise valid questions. Will there be an investigation going on behind the scenes?
The US has passed judgement that it was Assad they need no investigation. Even if people wanted to investigate they couldn't as its in rebel territory which is incredibly unsafe for westerners.
My guess is Trump has been hoodwinked and sold a dummy by his Intel services who are still loyal to Clinton/Obama/Democrats and by the gulf states.
Zod said:
MrBrightSi said:
Zod said:
Aren't you the one with a YouTube channel of EDL videos?
What kind of point is that? Bit of a pathetic LOOK AT THE RAYYYCISSSS!!! post mate.Guess i'll deport those shady foreigners another day.
5ohmustang said:
rscott said:
People didn't laugh at you just because you're a prepper .. there's so many other reasons too!
I think there are a lot more people laughing at your liberal Russian conspiracy theories, these strikes totally debunk your narrative. Be sure to send me a postcard to let us know how you're getting along during Red Dawn.
I've simply said this, and the behaviour of Nunes, needs further investigation.
Trump lobbing a few missiles at a seemingly empty airbase doesn't really change this.
dudleybloke said:
The brave doctor who swears it was a sarin attack is connected with the group that has kidnapped John Cantlie.
And as mentioned here before, if it was a real gas attack then the helpers would have died too.
Whilst I'm not a chemical weapons expert I'd assume there is a time window during which the effectiveness is at some kind of maximum before trailing off.And as mentioned here before, if it was a real gas attack then the helpers would have died too.
Sarin (I've no idea of "grades") was used in a Tokyo attack and I'm fairly sure it was nothing like as clear cut as "the helpers died" (mostly because they didn't).
Seems an appropriate time to remind all of the previous sarin attack in Syria: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghouta_chemical_atta...
Phil
Phil
Transmitter Man said:
Seems an appropriate time to remind all of the previous sarin attack in Syria: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghouta_chemical_atta...
Phil
Can you point out the independent attribution of Sarin usage by the Syrian government in those attack ? I will save you the effort, there is none, the UN only confirmed Sarin was used. Sounds very familiar, does it not. Phil
Why bother with actual evidence, it is overrated, when you are looking for an excuse to overthrow a sovereign government or as a convenient distraction from domestic political issues.
SilverSixer said:
Goaty Bill 2 said:
SilverSixer said:
QuantumTokoloshi said:
SilverSixer said:
QuantumTokoloshi said:
Hayek said:
He has some odd views on drugs and religion, but on the EU and Russia, he is very knowledgeable and insightful. Some of his talks about Russia on youtube I have posted before. Well worth watching.Edited by QuantumTokoloshi on Friday 7th April 10:38
ker who, last week, asserted that we need to return to the Imperial system of weights and measures because Metric was the product of Napoleonic hegemony and was therefore an ideologically unsound system to use, not only that it's unpoetic. Yes, poetry must be deployed in weighing and measuring things in an ideologically sound manner. Missing completely the meaning of the word 'Imperial'.He has nothing useful to say on anything.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UeO44STvnJw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3CNeDtZmpjU
He can be a real old fuddy duddy, but he does so in impeccable English!
I suspect the metric 'essay' (I admit to simply scanning rather than reading in depth) may have been as much for fun as in any seriousness.
However, as his brother, in the 1960s he declared himself a Trotskyist and probably still to this day feels some shame in that, though he freely and honestly admits his own guilt and error.
I'm sure you are quite aware of his ten years as a Moscow correspondent...
Trotsky may well have appealed more to those who had a somewhat jaded view of Stalinist Russia, which in all fairness had been seen for what it was by some (Orwell and others) for many years, but still felt the need to cling to their fundamental Marxist ideology. Of course the general release of Solzhenitsyn's first novel to the west in '63 would be putting the final nails in Stalin's coffin, and for those that read his later works 'correctly', into Lenin's coffin as well.
I really would, to stay more on topic, pay some attention to Hitchens. I generally find that being in full agreement with him can be difficult, but I don't think the man has an agenda based upon lies or the spreading of misinformation.
I believe he draws a lot of his views/information on Syria from Patrick Cockburn.
If you want to read an excellent and thoroughly amusing account of life as a correspondent in Moscow, have a go at the book "Moscow, Moscow" by Christopher Hope. He was one of my favourites until he went all Billy Brexit recently................but his writing about Moscow has me in stitches.
bhstewie said:
hstewie said:dudleybloke said:
The brave doctor who swears it was a sarin attack is connected with the group that has kidnapped John Cantlie.
And as mentioned here before, if it was a real gas attack then the helpers would have died too.
Whilst I'm not a chemical weapons expert I'd assume there is a time window during which the effectiveness is at some kind of maximum before trailing off.And as mentioned here before, if it was a real gas attack then the helpers would have died too.
Sarin (I've no idea of "grades") was used in a Tokyo attack and I'm fairly sure it was nothing like as clear cut as "the helpers died" (mostly because they didn't).
SilverSixer said:
Right. Sigh. I tried the Hitchens videos as promised. Within 10 minutes of the first one starting I was shouting at my computer and tearing my hair out at his ability to describe the Soviet Union so well (seems he and I were there at exactly the same time, he does say he was there for 2.5 years though, not the 10 years claimed on here - any other evidence to back up the 10 year claim?), but then move on to make so many errors of judgement about things and so obviously base his views about Russia and Putin on his own biases about such things as religion and he British-Traditionalist/Jacob Rees-Mogg style views of what he thinks makes people "respectable" that I simply couldn't take any more. Sorry, but he's a red rag to a bull and I had to switch him off. He just can't seem to speak about anything objectively without shooting it through the prism of his traditionalist views and that makes much of what he has to say unlistenable. It's all a Party Political Broadcast for the Victorian Values Party.
I seem to have got the length of his time in Moscow wrong, my apologies. I don't know where I got the 'ten years' from, perhaps it was incorrectly stated during an introduction somewhere.Well, I did say "I generally find that being in full agreement with him can be difficult...", yes his 'Victorianism' is a bit excessive at times.
Perhaps I simply enjoy the way he stirs up the mantra chanting progressives.
Credit where credit is due for making the attempt.
Interestingly though, Solzhenitsyn also stated, "Men have forgotten God; that's why all this has happened."
I make no argument either way, there are plenty of foolish Christians along with plenty of foolish people that believe that all evils may be dissolved by the abolition of religion. Each extreme seems to fail to recognise that mankind is the common denominator, and true evil arises from fanatical adherence to ideologies, with or without a God or gods.
Goaty Bill 2 said:
SilverSixer said:
Right. Sigh. I tried the Hitchens videos as promised. Within 10 minutes of the first one starting I was shouting at my computer and tearing my hair out at his ability to describe the Soviet Union so well (seems he and I were there at exactly the same time, he does say he was there for 2.5 years though, not the 10 years claimed on here - any other evidence to back up the 10 year claim?), but then move on to make so many errors of judgement about things and so obviously base his views about Russia and Putin on his own biases about such things as religion and he British-Traditionalist/Jacob Rees-Mogg style views of what he thinks makes people "respectable" that I simply couldn't take any more. Sorry, but he's a red rag to a bull and I had to switch him off. He just can't seem to speak about anything objectively without shooting it through the prism of his traditionalist views and that makes much of what he has to say unlistenable. It's all a Party Political Broadcast for the Victorian Values Party.
I seem to have got the length of his time in Moscow wrong, my apologies. I don't know where I got the 'ten years' from, perhaps it was incorrectly stated during an introduction somewhere.Well, I did say "I generally find that being in full agreement with him can be difficult...", yes his 'Victorianism' is a bit excessive at times.
Perhaps I simply enjoy the way he stirs up the mantra chanting progressives.
Credit where credit is due for making the attempt.
Interestingly though, Solzhenitsyn also stated, "Men have forgotten God; that's why all this has happened."
I make no argument either way, there are plenty of foolish Christians along with plenty of foolish people that believe that all evils may be dissolved by the abolition of religion. Each extreme seems to fail to recognise that mankind is the common denominator, and true evil arises from fanatical adherence to ideologies, with or without a God or gods.
I'd be quite happy with that. Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff