Meanwhile, In Syria

[BlackLabel]

At least 18 members of the American-backed Syrian Democratic Forces (SDF) were killed in a US-led coalition air strike that mistakenly targeted them in Syria's Raqqa province. In a statement released on Thursday, US Central Command (CENTCOM) said 18 SDF fighters died in the air raid south of the city of Tabqa on April 11. The attack was believed to be hitting members of Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (ISIL, also known as ISIS).

[Zod]

Mr GrimNasty said:

Just watched the Assad interview and it is clear (I have a lifetime of experience spotting nutters and liars and he is neither) he is not responsible for any
chemical attack.

That leaves rogue elements or false flag/fabrication.

Given the overall situation at the time, considering who would benefit most, it is almost certainly the latter.

Well, that convinced me!

[Joey Ramone]

Mr GrimNasty said:

Just watched the Assad interview and it is clear (I have a lifetime of experience spotting nutters and liars and he is neither) he is not responsible for any
chemical attack.

That leaves rogue elements or false flag/fabrication.

Given the overall situation at the time, considering who would benefit most, it is almost certainly the latter.

Is that the same interview where he claims that the White Helmets are actually Al Qaeda fighters who have shaved off their beards?

[frankenstein12]

Joey Ramone said:

Mr GrimNasty said:

Just watched the Assad interview and it is clear (I have a lifetime of experience spotting nutters and liars and he is neither) he is not responsible for any
chemical attack.

That leaves rogue elements or false flag/fabrication.

Given the overall situation at the time, considering who would benefit most, it is almost certainly the latter.

Is that the same interview where he claims that the White Helmets are actually Al Qaeda fighters who have shaved off their beards?

Yes something that is well documented but little reported.

[eharding]

Mr GrimNasty said:

Just watched the Assad interview and it is clear (I have a lifetime of experience spotting nutters and liars and he is neither) he is not responsible for any
chemical attack.

The only thing this makes clear is quite what a waste of protein and oxygen your lifetime of experience has been.

[Efbe]

eharding said:

Mr GrimNasty said:

Just watched the Assad interview and it is clear (I have a lifetime of experience spotting nutters and liars and he is neither) he is not responsible for any
chemical attack.

The only thing this makes clear is quite what a waste of protein and oxygen your lifetime of experience has been.

I'm surprised you don't have such faith in his psychic abilities.

I think I can also spot nutjobs a mile away Mr GrimNasty...

[Transmitter Man]

Mr GrimNasty said:

Just watched the Assad interview and it is clear (I have a lifetime of experience spotting nutters and liars and he is neither) he is not responsible for any
chemical attack.

That leaves rogue elements or false flag/fabrication.

Given the overall situation at the time, considering who would benefit most, it is almost certainly the latter.

I disagree;

And he says these lies with a straight face. Must have attended the Lavrov school of lying.

Phil

[Transmitter Man]

QuantumTokoloshi said:

Can you point out the independent attribution of Sarin usage by the Syrian government in those attack ? I will save you the effort, there is none, the UN only confirmed Sarin was used. Sounds very familiar, does it not.

Why bother with actual evidence, it is overrated, when you are looking for an excuse to overthrow a sovereign government or as a convenient distraction from domestic political issues.

Who exactly do you consider independent and do they have the necessary experiemce?

Phil

[Joey Ramone]

frankenstein12 said:

Yes something that is well documented but little reported.

Well documented by what credible sources? (Pamela Geller, Infowars, and Russia Today don't count)

[frankenstein12]

Joey Ramone said:

frankenstein12 said:

Yes something that is well documented but little reported.

Well documented by what credible sources? (Pamela Geller, Infowars, and Russia Today don't count)

Actually they count in the same way MSM and government does. So yeah they make st up sometimes, you just have to learn to try read between the lines.

However there is lots of photographic footage of white helmets members associating with the "rebels". There is footage of one of them present at and celebrating the beheading of a 12 year old boy by the rebels.

There is evidence of the white helmets being funded by the US government and George Soros.

the list goes on. It takes time to find and unfortunately I don't tend to keep records of the information or where i found it as no one who is anti Assad cares about evidence anyway.

[pinchmeimdreamin]

frankenstein12 said:

Joey Ramone said:

frankenstein12 said:

Yes something that is well documented but little reported.

Well documented by what credible sources? (Pamela Geller, Infowars, and Russia Today don't count)

Actually they count in the same way MSM and government does. So yeah they make st up sometimes, you just have to learn to try read between the lines.

However there is lots of photographic footage of white helmets members associating with the "rebels". There is footage of one of them present at and celebrating the beheading of a 12 year old boy by the rebels.

There is evidence of the white helmets being funded by the US government and George Soros.

the list goes on. It takes time to find and unfortunately I don't tend to keep records of the information or where i found it as no one who is anti Assad cares about evidence anyway.

It's ok we will all take your word for it

[mickytruelove]

I watched videos of the white helmets at beheadings and the like on liveleak. Personally i do not trust their videos one bit. As for the US they are just as trust worthy.

https://www.geo.tv/latest/117069-US-spent-over-500...

Trump only lauched the missles because he had to look stronger than obama. Hence no more strikes will take place. Same thing with the bomb in afganistan, North korea are watching and take out some isis at the same time.

[nyxster]

Mr GrimNasty said:

Just watched the Assad interview and it is clear (I have a lifetime of experience spotting nutters and liars and he is neither) he is not responsible for any
chemical attack.

That leaves rogue elements or false flag/fabrication.

Given the overall situation at the time, considering who would benefit most, it is almost certainly the latter.

Here's the problem; Assad is neither a nutter or a liar.

Calling him a nutter would suggest he's mentally ill when clearly he is a highly educated man who knows exactly what he is doing. From his own words he considers his victims terrorists and any innocents killed are to be blamed on the terrorists since if they weren't fighting he wouldn't need to bomb them. It's exactly the same type of blame-shifting Putin has excelled at for years - he feels totally justified in his actions therefore his actions to be reasonable. Of course to other's that makes him a sociopath, but he is not lying (in his opinion) as he is blaming others for the consequences of his actions rather than denying them. The second aspect of assymetric warfare is deniability - his underlings could well be using chemical weapons and he simply avoids having any hand in it - the same. way Putin denied any involvement in the downing of the Malaysian jets - have no direct knowledge then you can truthfully speculate all sorts of explanations.

NK's leader is clearly a nutter - Assad is merely a ruthless dictator who places no value on human life, Those from his inner circle said neither he nor his wife show any kind of compassion and are utterly self-absorbed.

One man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist - if the remainers formed a militia and started a civil war, the brexiters would no doubt back a government who quashed them on the grounds they were 'terrorists', and collatoral damage would be the fault of said terrorists for starting the trouble.

The problem for Assad is that there are internationally agreed conventions. on things like chemical weapons, targeting of civillians, torture and so on - even if he feels he has done nothing wrong then the international community are free to judge otherwise.

The irony of Russia complaining that the US strike was illegal is that Russia repeatedly carried out illegal military actions in Georgia, Ukraine so has no moral card to play against the US taking unilateral action. In any case there is nothing they can do - just as they veto every action against Syria - France and the UK would veto every actuion against the US ensuring the UN is basically useless in any situation where one if the permenant members has a vested interest or is involved in a contratemps.

We can argue this until the cows come home but this will end as Chechyna did - Russia will continue to batter IS/AQ/Rebels into submission, at the end of it Assad will be the sacrificial lamb to placate the US and be exiled to Russia and replaced with a puppet regime willing to do Putin's bidding. Russia will continue to take apart the islamic groups, since ultimately one of the back room deals nobody talks about is how cosy Putin is with Israel and Russia is ultimately helping Israel remove syrian support for hezbollah and lebanon. Having Russia block the arms flow from Iran to Palestine via lebanon protects Israel, and despite the rhetoric Russia and the US are in a behind the scenes joint-enterprise to protect Israel from Iran. While all the focus was on the US missile strike no media attention was given at all to Israel carrying out airstrikes in palmyra against iran sponsored hezbollah, who are supposedly on Russia's side. Russia's principal involvement was nothing to do with protecting Assad - the cconcern was that if IS & friends got control over Syria they'd have a direct front over the golan into Israel. By putting Assad under the thumb they also stop him being Iran's proxy into Lebanon. Since Assad is ultimately secular, and Putin diesnt guve a st about things like human rights he's seen as a useful idiot to keep a lid on either side of the islam coin spreading from Saudi (via IS) or Iran (via hezbollah) onto Israel's doorstep.

tl;dr - you can be the best nutter/liar detector in the world but if you are basing your understanding of the underlying drivers of the situation based on press reports, interviews etc then you are going to come to the wrong conclusions - people like Putin, Assad and others don't stay in power by making binary decisions - like avery long game of chess global diplomacy is basec on wide varieties of interests and objectives that are rarely apparant to those outside the principal groups involved. Assad is a very effecttive manipulator who says mostly what he thinks has the best chance of casting doubt or changing public opinion, and he's got Putin's hand stuck right up his arse telling him what to say/do - and without doubt Putin is one of the most cunning and wily political operators on the planet.

[grumbledoak]

Has anyone yet come up with a plausible reason why Assad would use chemical weapons against his own people? Given the facts appear to be:
. Assad is popular at home, twice elected, and winning against IS.
. A chemical weapon attack would achieve nothing against IS and it would give the Americans the excuse they want to act.
. Assad knows this.
. Assad is neither dumb nor insane

What's his motivation for giving the US the exact excuse they need to do what they clearly already want to do?

Edited by grumbledoak on Friday 14th April 17:20

[Cobnapint]

grumbledoak said:

Has anyone yet come up with a plausible reason why Assad would use chemical weapons against his own people? Given the facts appear to be:
. Assad is popular at home, twice elected, and winning against IS.
. A chemical weapon attack would achieve nothing against IS and it would give the Americans the excuse they want to act.
. Assad knows this.
. Assad is neither dumb nor insane

What's his motivation for giving the US the exact excuse they need to do what they clearly already want to do?

He might be popular in Damascus, but not in some of the outlying areas such as this rebel held town.

If you are in a rebel held town, then you are a rebel fighting for democracy, and if you are a rebel fighting for democracy - you are a terrorist. 'Terrorists' in Syria get treated in the same manner that the lucky residents of Aleppo did. That is, getting the living st bombed out of you at any cost, with no come back - especially when you have a ruthless sidekick like Putin backing you all the way.

He may not be insane, but he made a bad judgement. A new sheriff is in town now, and the new sheriff kicked the garden gate down and took a dump on the lawn.

I don't think they'll be any more CW attacks.

[MrBrightSi]

Cobnapint said:

rebel fighting for democracy

Pull the other one mate, it's got bells on.

[Sylvaforever]

you are a rebel fighting for democracy, and if you are a rebel fighting for democracy -

Strange view of democracy pal.

[Cobnapint]

Sylvaforever said:

you are a rebel fighting for democracy, and if you are a rebel fighting for democracy -

Strange view of democracy pal.

Well that's how it all started off. Ok, many factions, warlords and other scum have entered the fray but the basic principle of wanting to oust their murderous dictator stands.

Not sure what'll replace it though, like you say.

[nyxster]

grumbledoak said:

Has anyone yet come up with a plausible reason why Assad would use chemical weapons against his own people? Given the facts appear to be:
. Assad is popular at home, twice elected, and winning against IS.
. A chemical weapon attack would achieve nothing against IS and it would give the Americans the excuse they want to act.
. Assad knows this.
. Assad is neither dumb nor insane

What's his motivation for giving the US the exact excuse they need to do what they clearly already want to do?

Edited by grumbledoak on Friday 14th April 17:20

There is a very good scene in 'the sum of all fears' where the fictional Russian president accepts blame for a chemical weapon attack on Chechnya by an over-zealous local commander - 'it is better to look guilty than people think you are not in control.' - Assad by all accounts is operating inside a tightly controlled bubble, reportedly either on board a Russian warship or at a location near to the coast. It's entirely possible a local commander under pressure to 'achieve results or face the consequences' authorisec the use of CW without authority - unlike nukes chemical weapons don't neec launch codes. Assad can't simply come out and say that it was an unauthorised action as it would undermine his authority that he is in control, so its better to try and cover it up or shift the blame - Assad likely has very little knowledge of what is happening day to day on the front line, only that through his chain of command he holds various people accountable for their failure to bend a knee or get the results he wants or needs - 'by all means possible' covers a multitude of sins for frontline commanders who are increasingly short of resources and for whom using such weapons is a means to get the job done and tick a report box.

Everyone is assuming everything that happens in Syria is under the direct order of Assad - the reality is more like 'you need to take this district by this date or you'll be answerable' - then when they use Sarin to get results and the brass say 'why did you use Sarin, look at what you've done!' they say 'we didn't, we bombed a rebel position that had a stockpile of it' - nobody from Assad's office is going to leave their bubble to order an investigation, they're just going to blame it on the rebels because to do anything else suggests thry don't have control of their military which would weaken their legitimacy and give any potential conspiritors intelligence that a coup d'etat was possible.

People are looking at these kind of things and expecting some sort of logical rationale behind the actions when in reality what you have is loosely orchestrated chaos.

Assad has the fictional president's dilemma - if he blames rogue elements he tells the west he's not in effective command and risks ambitious elements ousting him from power, better people think he is a monster than not in control.

[frankenstein12]

pinchmeimdreamin said:

frankenstein12 said:

Joey Ramone said:

frankenstein12 said:

Yes something that is well documented but little reported.

Well documented by what credible sources? (Pamela Geller, Infowars, and Russia Today don't count)

Actually they count in the same way MSM and government does. So yeah they make st up sometimes, you just have to learn to try read between the lines.

However there is lots of photographic footage of white helmets members associating with the "rebels". There is footage of one of them present at and celebrating the beheading of a 12 year old boy by the rebels.

There is evidence of the white helmets being funded by the US government and George Soros.

the list goes on. It takes time to find and unfortunately I don't tend to keep records of the information or where i found it as no one who is anti Assad cares about evidence anyway.

It's ok we will all take your word for it

I would prefer you didn't take my word for it and actually researched my comments/claims extensively for yourself but it will require looking at websites with questionable content such as graphic videos and images.