Listed building develeopment, where to start
Discussion
I love the location of this house
http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/prope...
Not sure if i'm dreaming though as i have no development experience or desire to learn.
Anyone any rough estimate about the kind of money to sort this into something reasonable. Id like the main building sorting and leave the rest. I understand its a how longs a piece of string type question but i'm not sure if its £100k/£250k/£500k so just looking for ballpark figures
If it is somewhere in the middle of my estimate i would deem it worth pursuing but much more and its out of my reach.
I would need a project manager. Would you normally approach one first, or would you get an architect first or maybe even a builder first?
http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/prope...
Not sure if i'm dreaming though as i have no development experience or desire to learn.
Anyone any rough estimate about the kind of money to sort this into something reasonable. Id like the main building sorting and leave the rest. I understand its a how longs a piece of string type question but i'm not sure if its £100k/£250k/£500k so just looking for ballpark figures
If it is somewhere in the middle of my estimate i would deem it worth pursuing but much more and its out of my reach.
I would need a project manager. Would you normally approach one first, or would you get an architect first or maybe even a builder first?
At south east Rates, I'd be allowing £50-70/sq ft to renovate a dilapidated but structurally sound listed property, more if you want specialist bathrooms or kitchens. Extensions and structural alterations are imponderable without more detail.
Note that with a listed property, you cAn be compelled to do maintenance work to the fabric to prevent deterioration in the condition.
Note that with a listed property, you cAn be compelled to do maintenance work to the fabric to prevent deterioration in the condition.
Lovely property but I don't think I would ever buy a listed building unless I didn't have a job(i.e lots of spare time) and I was happy to spend years renovating it.
It will take twice as long and cost twice as much as you think. All the details will need agreeing 1:10 section drawings of window design approving etc. etc.
Conservation officers are usually a right pain in the arse and will show no mercy because your house is in fact a public asset to be protected that you are merely a temporary custodian of. I don't necessarily disagree, but you have to accept that is how they approach it.
Having said that, it is stunning! Just expect it to be twice as tricky and expensive as you think.
It will take twice as long and cost twice as much as you think. All the details will need agreeing 1:10 section drawings of window design approving etc. etc.
Conservation officers are usually a right pain in the arse and will show no mercy because your house is in fact a public asset to be protected that you are merely a temporary custodian of. I don't necessarily disagree, but you have to accept that is how they approach it.
Having said that, it is stunning! Just expect it to be twice as tricky and expensive as you think.
I read though the current planning and it raised issues both you did about being compelled to preserve scale drawings and making sure windows match exactly.
I have a very flexible job but very little spare time. I could devote time to it but only a couple hours a day. I would prefer to get someone to do all that for me, obviously i'll need to pay for that
I have a very flexible job but very little spare time. I could devote time to it but only a couple hours a day. I would prefer to get someone to do all that for me, obviously i'll need to pay for that
Elderly said:
I can't help with the costs but as somebody who has bought and renovated, and still live in a listed property, I would not advise anybody to get involved with the restrictions, bureaucracy, stubbornness and stupidity of the listed buildings' system.
Ditto. You put that rather politely I though.I bought my second Grade 2 listed property in a conversation area, gutted it and extended it, all under the watchful eye of the conservation officer, with no major problems. The extension is oakframed (the house is not) and includes double aspect bifold sliding glass doors.
The first property we had was also Grade 2/Conservation area but we only did a loft conversion and full renovation, no extension.
The first was harder because it fell under North Dorset planning, and the Conservation office insisted we cover the existing woodchip wall paper rather than re-plaster, and also leave the gloss black pub paint on the beams rather than go back to the bare oak.
The second house is 8 miles away but in Wiltshire. The conservation officer came around, took one look at the stud partitioning throughout and told us we could bin the lot because it was of no remote historical interest whatsoever. She also said we should chop the windows down to the floor along one wall, (to create french windows) to let more light in. I was surprised by this.
The solution to an easy application was using a good architect who phrased the application very carefully (vaguely) and put in a whole load of things the Cons. officer could object to but that we were happy to lose anyway. The oak & glass extension was harder to get through planning because of the Parish rather than the Conservation officer. This was dealt with slightly more ingeniously and relied upon the architect's knowledge of Planing Office procedures. Suffice to say we got what we wanted, and when the Chair od the PC (who had objected) saw the finished article he said "oooh that's turned out nice". To55er.
This project already has PP; talk it over with the Conservation Officer and sound out what you can and can't change, it should be a standard system but it isn't and if the local Conservation Officer is more of an "Officer" than a "Conservationist" you might want to think twice. Also ask local agents and builders for the name of a good project manager/architect and see some evidence of what they've done before.
In short - it's not scary, it's just a different game, learn the rules and exploit them.
The first property we had was also Grade 2/Conservation area but we only did a loft conversion and full renovation, no extension.
The first was harder because it fell under North Dorset planning, and the Conservation office insisted we cover the existing woodchip wall paper rather than re-plaster, and also leave the gloss black pub paint on the beams rather than go back to the bare oak.
The second house is 8 miles away but in Wiltshire. The conservation officer came around, took one look at the stud partitioning throughout and told us we could bin the lot because it was of no remote historical interest whatsoever. She also said we should chop the windows down to the floor along one wall, (to create french windows) to let more light in. I was surprised by this.
The solution to an easy application was using a good architect who phrased the application very carefully (vaguely) and put in a whole load of things the Cons. officer could object to but that we were happy to lose anyway. The oak & glass extension was harder to get through planning because of the Parish rather than the Conservation officer. This was dealt with slightly more ingeniously and relied upon the architect's knowledge of Planing Office procedures. Suffice to say we got what we wanted, and when the Chair od the PC (who had objected) saw the finished article he said "oooh that's turned out nice". To55er.
This project already has PP; talk it over with the Conservation Officer and sound out what you can and can't change, it should be a standard system but it isn't and if the local Conservation Officer is more of an "Officer" than a "Conservationist" you might want to think twice. Also ask local agents and builders for the name of a good project manager/architect and see some evidence of what they've done before.
In short - it's not scary, it's just a different game, learn the rules and exploit them.
pacoryan said:
........ the Conservation office insisted we cover the existing woodchip wall paper rather than re-plaster, and also leave the gloss black pub paint on the beams rather than go back to the bare oak.
I'm on our Parish Council and so I see or hear about a lot of this kind of thing 
.One of the best, was a conservation officer who insisted that the paneling in a room that was proposed to become the kitchen could not be disturbed in any way as it was part of the history of the house (so scuppering the kitchen idea).
It turned out that the paneling was asbestos.
Another absurdity was a house that suffered a severe fire and the conservation officer wouldn't let the owners replace some fairly badly burned oak beams.
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