Victim of a Bitcoin and Paypal scam :(

[eliot]

northwest monkey said:

Ebay & Paypal Buyer / Seller protection only covers for tangible things* and I'm guessing that the Bitcoin was "delivered" digitally.

If you read the T's and C's for Ebay/Paypal it will tell you what you need to do to be covered. I've had something very similar happen to me earlier this year, but because I could prove delivery I was covered and didn't lose out. In fact, I gained as for some reason, Ebay gave me my seller fees back as well.

Nothing wrong with selling on Ebay as long as you play by their rules & are careful.

Whether your "buyer" has had their account hacked or not, I very much doubt the Police will be interested.

• with some exceptions.

Ebay force you to use Paypal for everything, so you cant even protect yourself by not accepting paypal. I'm assuming that a bitcoin comes under not allowed section, under "sending cash" in the accepted payments policy:
http://pages.ebay.co.uk/help/policies/accepted-pay...

Therefore surely all the bitcoin auctions shouldn't be allowed to be listed in the first place?

[northwest monkey]

eliot said:

Ebay force you to use Paypal for everything, so you cant even protect yourself by not accepting paypal. I'm assuming that a bitcoin comes under not allowed section, under "sending cash" in the accepted payments policy:
http://pages.ebay.co.uk/help/policies/accepted-pay...

Therefore surely all the bitcoin auctions shouldn't be allowed to be listed in the first place?

Ebay force you to offer Paypal - not to use it.

Basically, you're correct - the offering of intangibles or "digitally delivered" products is on the "not allowed" list but people will always try to get round the rules. Unfortunately, the OP didn't get away with it.

I'm assuming the fees for potentially selling on Ebay are a lot less than selling on a proper exchange?

[crosseyedlion]

I did not try and get around anything. As over 5k a week of bitcoin are sold this way via eBay, there is sections for currency and many others seem to be doing it without issue, I (mistakenly) assumed it must be fine.

I find it quite offensive that keyboard warriors are now painting me to look like some dodgy wheeler dealer.

I made a mistake selling via PayPal, but had the best intentions, the scammer however...

It's pretty disgraceful that paypal seem to openly act as an accessory to charge back fraud and ironically has made me see the value of bitcoin even more.

[crosseyedlion]

[crosseyedlion]

[eliot]

northwest monkey said:

Ebay force you to offer Paypal - not to use it.

What's the difference? - its the buyer who decides the method of payment and your scammer is going to use paypal.

[northwest monkey]

eliot said:

northwest monkey said:

Ebay force you to offer Paypal - not to use it.

What's the difference? - its the buyer who decides the method of payment and your scammer is going to use paypal.

When it's something Ebay tell you not to sell, and Paypal tell you that you wont be covered if you do & if it goes tits up then that's the difference.

I take Paypal for 99.9% of all our transactions (10k+ in 2013) because it's pretty safe. If I was selling something high-value and that had no cover whatsoever, I'd sell it elsewhere.

There may well have been £5k of Bitcoin transactions in the last 15 minutes on Ebay for all I know, but what I don't know, and nor does anybody else on here is how many went ahead smoothly.

On the Bitcoin thread, there are suggestions there on where to sell them - none of which was Ebay.

[jogon]

I sold a Quad HiFi system recently, slightly vintage but still well recognised company, advert clearly stated cash on collection only but the winning bidder by quite some margin after receiving my invoice, which also stated cash on collection only, payed immediately via PayPal. When I questioned this they claimed they were short on cash but desperate for the hifi which led to suspicions.. Upon researching the address it revealed some sink hole council estate in Esssex.

We agreed to cancel the transaction as i refunded his PayPal payment but if not then I imagine a similar outcome to the OP would have occurred.

It provides you with great coverage but unfortunately is worthless with the current protection from using their preferred payment method, PayPal.

[hornet]

crosseyedlion said:

I did not try and get around anything. As over 5k a week of bitcoin are sold this way via eBay, there is sections for currency and many others seem to be doing it without issue, I (mistakenly) assumed it must be fine.

Plenty of people have unprotected casual sex without consequence, but that's not justification for taking risks yourself. Given the numerous warnings and PayPal's specific exclusion for digital items, selling Bitcoin on Ebay is always going to be a risk, as you are relying on someone else. Given you can't control the actions of other people (i.e. potential scammers), your only option is to reduce your own exposure to that risk. Whilst it's unfortunate you were scammed, it seems as though you were either ignorant of Ebay's exclusion for digital items, hadn't fully considered the possible outcomes or decided to take the risk anyway. Either way, you've increased rather than decreased your chances of being conned. Doesn't make it fair, but then that's the nature of scams sadly. They will prey on the unprepared, which sadly in this instance was you. The best way to avoid being caught in a Paypal chargeback scam is to avoid using Paypal, regardless of how many other people don't get scammed. You're increasing your risk by even being in that space.

[crosseyedlion]

hornet said:

crosseyedlion said:

I did not try and get around anything. As over 5k a week of bitcoin are sold this way via eBay, there is sections for currency and many others seem to be doing it without issue, I (mistakenly) assumed it must be fine.

Plenty of people have unprotected casual sex without consequence, but that's not justification for taking risks yourself. Given the numerous warnings and PayPal's specific exclusion for digital items, selling Bitcoin on Ebay is always going to be a risk, as you are relying on someone else. Given you can't control the actions of other people (i.e. potential scammers), your only option is to reduce your own exposure to that risk. Whilst it's unfortunate you were scammed, it seems as though you were either ignorant of Ebay's exclusion for digital items, hadn't fully considered the possible outcomes or decided to take the risk anyway. Either way, you've increased rather than decreased your chances of being conned. Doesn't make it fair, but then that's the nature of scams sadly. They will prey on the unprepared, which sadly in this instance was you. The best way to avoid being caught in a Paypal chargeback scam is to avoid using Paypal, regardless of how many other people don't get scammed. You're increasing your risk by even being in that space.

Yet again another comment completely missing the point of this thread.

I know I made a mistake, thats clear. It doesn't need repeating constantly.

Thanks.