Opps I thrown away my old receipts now umbrella company want
Discussion
Hi I wonder if someone could give me some advice..
Last year well up to the 30th Dec anyway anyway I was working for an umbrella company for 3 months which would pay me a wage and I could claim for tax relief for my meals due to me working long hours etc and kept receipts..
The problem I've got is when I was made unemployed I decided to have an early spring clean around the house and have thrown my receipts away and the dustman has already been and now the the umbrella company want a few receipts dated from early November for part of an Audit which I no longer have.
Also I have to find my petrol receipt for that week the only problem is I would fill my cars tank to the max and use it over a 3 week period so wouldn't of had that on the same date plus it was all stored in the same box.
Could someone give me some advice on what I should do.
Last year well up to the 30th Dec anyway anyway I was working for an umbrella company for 3 months which would pay me a wage and I could claim for tax relief for my meals due to me working long hours etc and kept receipts..
The problem I've got is when I was made unemployed I decided to have an early spring clean around the house and have thrown my receipts away and the dustman has already been and now the the umbrella company want a few receipts dated from early November for part of an Audit which I no longer have.
Also I have to find my petrol receipt for that week the only problem is I would fill my cars tank to the max and use it over a 3 week period so wouldn't of had that on the same date plus it was all stored in the same box.
Could someone give me some advice on what I should do.
What will the umbrella company do if you can't find the expense receipts.
Are you implying that this umbrella company pays expenses to its staff WITHOUT having sight of the receipts first?
What was your relationship with the umbrella company?
Were you an employee being paid a salary?
Were you making separate claims from the umbrella company for the reclaim of expenses?
Are you implying that this umbrella company pays expenses to its staff WITHOUT having sight of the receipts first?
What was your relationship with the umbrella company?
Were you an employee being paid a salary?
Were you making separate claims from the umbrella company for the reclaim of expenses?
Hi Eric.
Yes it does I had to fill in a claim form online weekly as the umbrella company would know the hours I worked for them as the contractor would send them a fax of my time sheet so the umbrella company could cross reference my claims for my hours worked via the time sheet.
I was being paid a salary plus expenses as I had to work through the umbrella company as the actual contractor I worked for wouldn't let me deal direct with them this year.
Yes it does I had to fill in a claim form online weekly as the umbrella company would know the hours I worked for them as the contractor would send them a fax of my time sheet so the umbrella company could cross reference my claims for my hours worked via the time sheet.
I was being paid a salary plus expenses as I had to work through the umbrella company as the actual contractor I worked for wouldn't let me deal direct with them this year.
Edited by Vince70 on Friday 10th January 08:04
Vince70 said:
Hi Eric.
Yes it does I had to fill in a claim form online weekly as the umbrella company would know the hours I worked for them as the contractor would send them a fax of my time sheet so the umbrella company could cross reference my claims for my hours worked via the time sheet.
I was being paid a salary plus expenses as I had to work through the umbrella company as the actual contractor I worked for wouldn't let me deal direct with them this year.
I would say "take a hike".Yes it does I had to fill in a claim form online weekly as the umbrella company would know the hours I worked for them as the contractor would send them a fax of my time sheet so the umbrella company could cross reference my claims for my hours worked via the time sheet.
I was being paid a salary plus expenses as I had to work through the umbrella company as the actual contractor I worked for wouldn't let me deal direct with them this year.
Edited by Vince70 on Friday 10th January 08:04
Was it part of the "contract" that expense claims had to be supported by underlying receipts?
If it was, why were they willing to pay out without sight of those receipts?
Did it state anywhere in the contract how long they would leave it before asking to see such receipts?
If they were paying out expenses based purely on what the employees were filling in on the claim forms they are idiots. A slack system like this is open to abuse.
This is a paragraph of the email sent.
However, in order to maintain our dispensation and remain compliant with HMRC, we are required to perform mandatory random checks. We need to ensure that our employees are keeping all supporting documentation for scale rate subsistence claims and still qualify for relief on such claims. You have been selected for a routine check of your subsistence
But apparently the company have a dispensation under HMRC P11D and I wouldn't want to get in trouble with the tax man
But I'm no longer an employee
However, in order to maintain our dispensation and remain compliant with HMRC, we are required to perform mandatory random checks. We need to ensure that our employees are keeping all supporting documentation for scale rate subsistence claims and still qualify for relief on such claims. You have been selected for a routine check of your subsistence
But apparently the company have a dispensation under HMRC P11D and I wouldn't want to get in trouble with the tax man
But I'm no longer an employee
Edited by Vince70 on Friday 10th January 08:25
Sounds like flannel to me. They are using the "HMRC big stick" to scare you into supplying something they should have asked for originally.
It sounds like "mileage" is the issue.
From a Corporation Tax and Income Tax point of view, as long as the payments to the employee are kept below the 45p (25p over 10,000 miles) rate AND the employee has decent records of the MILES undertaken on behalf of the employer, that should satisfy the record keeping rules for HMRC CT and IT purposes. Diary logs of journeys on behalf of the employer are usually adequate.
I presume you were claiming at the 45p per mile rate (or under)?
The only aspect of mileage claims where original fuel vouchers are required is where the business is reclaiming Input VAT on these fuel related element of the mileage claims of employees. If they don't have petrol vouchers supporting the Input VAT claim, that's their problem, not yours.
Were there other expense claims involved additional to mileage claims?
It sounds like "mileage" is the issue.
From a Corporation Tax and Income Tax point of view, as long as the payments to the employee are kept below the 45p (25p over 10,000 miles) rate AND the employee has decent records of the MILES undertaken on behalf of the employer, that should satisfy the record keeping rules for HMRC CT and IT purposes. Diary logs of journeys on behalf of the employer are usually adequate.
I presume you were claiming at the 45p per mile rate (or under)?
The only aspect of mileage claims where original fuel vouchers are required is where the business is reclaiming Input VAT on these fuel related element of the mileage claims of employees. If they don't have petrol vouchers supporting the Input VAT claim, that's their problem, not yours.
Were there other expense claims involved additional to mileage claims?
Edited by Eric Mc on Friday 10th January 08:37
Thanks for all the help Eric..
Yes I was claiming the 45p a mile for petrol plus I claimed for Breakfast, Lunch and evening meal depending on which shift and the amount of hours I worked etc
Also I made sure that when I put the claims in separately online that I only claimed for the allowed rate so I know that everything on my part was above board.
As for my mileage I never went over my amount as I only claimed 9.5 miles a day return which was door to door
Yes I was claiming the 45p a mile for petrol plus I claimed for Breakfast, Lunch and evening meal depending on which shift and the amount of hours I worked etc
Also I made sure that when I put the claims in separately online that I only claimed for the allowed rate so I know that everything on my part was above board.
As for my mileage I never went over my amount as I only claimed 9.5 miles a day return which was door to door
Edited by Vince70 on Friday 10th January 08:54
As far as the 45p per mile is concerned, they can go take a jump. The mileage claim sheets are the "evidence" required for those claims - which they obviously have had already from you.
As far as the hotels bills are concerned - I would say "tough titties". They should have asked for those at the time - especially if they were reclaiming VAT on those costs.
And, as you no longer working for them, I would not worry about it too much.
As far as the hotels bills are concerned - I would say "tough titties". They should have asked for those at the time - especially if they were reclaiming VAT on those costs.
And, as you no longer working for them, I would not worry about it too much.
Eric
Is the January madness effecting you?
Surely the issue is whether the OP had a contractual obligation to keep the receipts to back-up his expenses? Secondly, did the end of his contract expressly mean that he was allowed to dispose of such evidence?
Surely, the answer to these is fundamental to giving him advice on his position now?
David
Is the January madness effecting you?
Surely the issue is whether the OP had a contractual obligation to keep the receipts to back-up his expenses? Secondly, did the end of his contract expressly mean that he was allowed to dispose of such evidence?
Surely, the answer to these is fundamental to giving him advice on his position now?
David
Thanks for all the advice..
I phoned up the umbrella company and told them that I had thrown the paperwork out once the contract had finished as I didn't think it would be relevant after the contract.
I was told it would mean that it would have a fail ? by my name and if I get another contract that the HMRC would need to take a look at my records.
I phoned up the umbrella company and told them that I had thrown the paperwork out once the contract had finished as I didn't think it would be relevant after the contract.
I was told it would mean that it would have a fail ? by my name and if I get another contract that the HMRC would need to take a look at my records.
Do you use these vouchers to make claims for tax relief purposes?
Are you required by the terms of your employment contract to supply these fuel receipts to your employer so that THEY can justify tax/VAT relief claims THEY are making to HMRC
If the answer to either of the above questions is "No", then you have no obligation to either HMRC or your employer to keep them.
If you are claiming motoring costs from your employer or directly from HMRC using the 45p/10p per mile system, you have no obligation either to keep vouchers for fuel or any other motoring expenses. The only evidence required for mileage claims are mileage records (evidence of specific business related journeys etc).
Are you required by the terms of your employment contract to supply these fuel receipts to your employer so that THEY can justify tax/VAT relief claims THEY are making to HMRC
If the answer to either of the above questions is "No", then you have no obligation to either HMRC or your employer to keep them.
If you are claiming motoring costs from your employer or directly from HMRC using the 45p/10p per mile system, you have no obligation either to keep vouchers for fuel or any other motoring expenses. The only evidence required for mileage claims are mileage records (evidence of specific business related journeys etc).
Cheers Eric
Without your insight I wouldn't of called their bluff.
I think your right as first of all I was told I still work for them and had to supply details...and as soon as I told them that you have it on record that my contract had finished was when it went from I had to supply details to a fail?
So hopefully I won't get the tax man knocking at my door thanks for the info.
Without your insight I wouldn't of called their bluff.
I think your right as first of all I was told I still work for them and had to supply details...and as soon as I told them that you have it on record that my contract had finished was when it went from I had to supply details to a fail?
So hopefully I won't get the tax man knocking at my door thanks for the info.
Going forward, I would highly recommend electronic copies of the reciepts as well stored in a drop box so if the filing system utilised becomes compromised (OH throws out pack of papers, etc) then at least you have something.
I thought it was standard to keep all paper copies for 6 years anyway, or at least my accounant states that but Im not under the control of an umbrella company.
I thought it was standard to keep all paper copies for 6 years anyway, or at least my accounant states that but Im not under the control of an umbrella company.
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