Woodford anyone?

[DonkeyApple]

Do you reckon they are going to have to resort to setting up a bond to buy the illiquid assets? Could be quite a good investment.

[Skyedriver]

Yes, I just threw the Q in to see what responses were.
I realised that he had over shot the illiquidity (is that a word) percentage. It was really considering a last ditch fire sale really, Depends upon exactly what he'd get for the investments he's bought on our behalf were sold, may just be 10p / £1.
The Bond suggestion, DonkeyApple, may be a good long term option depending not so much on what his purchases do but upon the rest of the market(s) I presume.

[BoRED S2upid]

Any indication of what percentage of the fund he’s having to turn into cash? Not everyone will sell especially when it reopens and plummets in value.

[Skyedriver]

And before the freeze, whilst the fund was not doing well, people were still in it hoping/expecting a turnaround.
So if it were reopened, would everyone jump or wait and see if Mr W was in fact right in the long term....

[DoubleSix]

BoRED S2upid said:

Any indication of what percentage of the fund he’s having to turn into cash? Not everyone will sell especially when it reopens and plummets in value.

I've attended two meetings with Woodford since the suspension, I recall a figure of 9% (but I could recall incorrectly)....

[DonkeyApple]

DoubleSix said:

BoRED S2upid said:

Any indication of what percentage of the fund he’s having to turn into cash? Not everyone will sell especially when it reopens and plummets in value.

I've attended two meetings with Woodford since the suspension, I recall a figure of 9% (but I could recall incorrectly)....

I might be wrong but I think the 9% relates to the investments which are unlisted as opposed to the percentage that is completely illiquid. He, and therefor I assume loads of others, have been getting illiquid assets listed on bucket exchanges so as to get around the listings rules.

[DonkeyApple]

Skyedriver said:

Yes, I just threw the Q in to see what responses were.
I realised that he had over shot the illiquidity (is that a word) percentage. It was really considering a last ditch fire sale really, Depends upon exactly what he'd get for the investments he's bought on our behalf were sold, may just be 10p / £1.
The Bond suggestion, DonkeyApple, may be a good long term option depending not so much on what his purchases do but upon the rest of the market(s) I presume.

I’m working on the assumption that Woodford is not an idiot or a crook and so his illiquid investments are top quality investments. As such, if third parties are offering utterly offensive sums to ‘help him out’ then moving these quality but unsellable investments into a bond that will pay a fair enough value for them but with a very generous discount may be the only way to get a reasonable price for them in the short time he has available.

To be frank, if Woodford was to offer a bond that was going to get his equity investments at a chunky discount then I would consider that an exciting proposition despite his tarnished name.

[DonkeyApple]

Skyedriver said:

Yes, I just threw the Q in to see what responses were.
I realised that he had over shot the illiquidity (is that a word) percentage. It was really considering a last ditch fire sale really, Depends upon exactly what he'd get for the investments he's bought on our behalf were sold, may just be 10p / £1.
The Bond suggestion, DonkeyApple, may be a good long term option depending not so much on what his purchases do but upon the rest of the market(s) I presume.

I’m working on the assumption that Woodford is not an idiot or a crook and so his illiquid investments are top quality investments. As such, if third parties are offering utterly offensive sums to ‘help him out’ then moving these quality but unsellable investments into a bond that will pay a fair enough value for them but with a very generous discount may be the only way to get a reasonable price for them in the short time he has available.

To be frank, if Woodford was to offer a bond that was going to get his equity investments at a chunky discount then I would consider that an exciting proposition despite his tarnished name.

[DoubleSix]

Skyedriver said:

And before the freeze, whilst the fund was not doing well, people were still in it hoping/expecting a turnaround.
So if it were reopened, would everyone jump or wait and see if Mr W was in fact right in the long term....

You certainly have to question the point in sticking with it if it’s no longer actually the Woodford fund.

If an imposed mandate restricts Woodford to liquid (sets traded) FTSE securities then it no longer represents his preferred strategy... despite that strategy not yielding returns in recent years. He still believes he is right and the market is wrong, but his hand is being forced.

There are many vanilla UK focused funds that come without the baggage. The point in investing in Woodford is exposure to Woodford...

Edited by DoubleSix on Monday 29th July 22:42

[GT03ROB]

rockin said:

Closing the fund isn't a scam or a sign of absolute disaster - it's to help contain/recover the situation for all investors.

Whilst I get where you are coming from, I'd see this as an unmitigated disaster. Individuals unable to liquidate their savings, individuals unable even to value their savings, Woodford finished.

[Condi]

GT03ROB said:

Whilst I get where you are coming from, I'd see this as an unmitigated disaster. Individuals unable to liquidate their savings, individuals unable even to value their savings, Woodford finished.

The market has a short memory. Next time he achieves double the benchmark return people will forget about the time his fund was closed for a few months.

[BoRED S2upid]

Skyedriver said:

And before the freeze, whilst the fund was not doing well, people were still in it hoping/expecting a turnaround.
So if it were reopened, would everyone jump or wait and see if Mr W was in fact right in the long term....

I will be sticking as I imagine it will plummet and I’m not a fan of having a race to the bottom with those keen to cash out.

[anonymous-user]

I held on too long,, but sold up about a week before the freeze.
Switched to Fundsmith Equity, which is about 9% up since then ..

[R8Steve]

Jimboka said:

I held on too long,, but sold up about a week before the freeze.
Switched to Fundsmith Equity, which is about 9% up since then ..

Exactly the same thing i did!

[Mattt]

There’s some concerns around about Fundsmith though, not surrounding liquidity but ability to continue to perform as it continues to grow in size massively.

[R8Steve]

Mattt said:

There’s some concerns around about Fundsmith though, not surrounding liquidity but ability to continue to perform as it continues to grow in size massively.

I don't see how portfolio size would affect the performance of the fund though?

[Mr Pointy]

R8Steve said:

Mattt said:

There’s some concerns around about Fundsmith though, not surrounding liquidity but ability to continue to perform as it continues to grow in size massively.

I don't see how portfolio size would affect the performance of the fund though?

As the fund grows the size of each holding becomes larger & therefore a larger percentage of the share capital of the companies held. Either more companies are added to the portfolio or the fund has to stop taking in money.

[darreni]

Looks like more bad news - Burford capital down 80+% in the last couple of days.

Woodford Eq income 2nd largest holding & 3rd largest holding in the Invesco Income & high Income funds.


https://www.hl.co.uk/shares/shares-search-results/...

[London424]

R8Steve said:

Jimboka said:

I held on too long,, but sold up about a week before the freeze.
Switched to Fundsmith Equity, which is about 9% up since then ..

Exactly the same thing i did!

Exactly the same for me!

[Zoon]

darreni said:

Looks like more bad news - Burford capital down 80+% in the last couple of days.

Woodford Eq income 2nd largest holding & 3rd largest holding in the Invesco Income & high Income funds.


https://www.hl.co.uk/shares/shares-search-results/...

Sounds like a little foul play
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/aug/08/b...