Funds that mirror pension funds?

[Mattt]

Well that's news to me, all of the schemes I've seen are just with the usual Standard Life/Aegon type platforms - and people just use the standard lifestyle fund options. Yes you can then change your funds but the interfaces aren't exactly user friendly or aid making changes easily.

[walm]

Ozzie Osmond said:

Couple of things,

1. Some pension investment funds have performed very well over time, for instance the Managed Funds from household names Prudential and Equitable Life.

Equitable Life?
You mean the guys who ripped off their customers to the tune of £4-4.8bn?
Are they still in business?

[sidicks]

walm said:

Equitable Life?
You mean the guys who ripped off their customers to the tune of £4-4.8bn?
Are they still in business?

Plenty of mistakes were made at Equitable Life, not least their policy of high annual bonus distributions keeping them high in the performance tables but with little margin for error when the economy changed significantly, leaving them with high guarantees relative to achievsble returns.

There were significant governance issues too, but what hit the fund hardest (and a subset of their policyholders) was a perverse legal judgement from the Courts!!

[jeff m2]

walm said:

sidicks said:

jeff m2 said:

Pensions will buy the institutional version of a fund, with little of no upfront charge which puts you behind the eight ball.
Pnsions usually have a much larger bond component than most individuals, probably low at present because of politicians trying to control markets, but that will tend to moderate swings that a cyclic index like the FTSE100 has.
2011 was a very good year for bonds, so that may have also moved your pension ahead of your own choices.

Individual pension funds invest in whatever the individual chooses to invest in!

Or are you referring to the default managed / lifestyle fund allocation?

Sounds like Jeff is talking about old-school pensions where some moron provider would come along and offer to "look after your money" while giving you the choice of 3 different funds depending on your risk levels - all of which would underperform and charge huge fees.

Fortunately the market has moved on from the 80s and now you can put whatever you want in a pension (well ALMOST anything you want).
That's the whole point of the "S" in SIPP.

Well the first P might be Pension but IMHO it isn't.
A SIPP gives an individual the opportunity to save for an annuity or similar.

A pension like a DB not only pulls in money from the employer, the employees but is also supported by contributions from the company and employees after the individual retires. Actuaries would provide the managers with long term forecasts of their obligations, they would buy suitable long gilts. Then came the writing on the wall, not sustainable. Obligation moved from employer to the individual for fear of crown guarantees.

What does an individual need to save for a UK annuity providing 2K/month at 60?
Is it index linked?

PS

I do agree there were too many charges, morons, yes actuaries can appear to be less than interesting people, but whether it was a move forward I'm not sure.

[walm]

AFAIK no one offers DB these days. The schemes are all shut.
Well almost no one.

And clearly the OP wasn't talking about that since with DB you don't care about performance!!

[sidicks]

jeff m2 said:

Well the first P might be Pension but IMHO it isn't.
A SIPP gives an individual the opportunity to save for an annuity or similar.

Which is exactly what a pension does.

Jeff m2 said:

A pension like a DB not only pulls in money from the employer, the employees but is also supported by contributions from the company and employees after the individual retires.

The OP is NOT talking about DB schemes.

Employees do NOT pay into DB schemes after they have retired.

Jeff m2 said:

Actuaries would provide the managers with long term forecasts of their obligations, they would buy suitable long gilts. Then came the writing on the wall, not sustainable. Obligation moved from employer to the individual for fear of crown guarantees.

DB schemes do NOT hold a significant proportion of gilts to match liabilities during the accumulation phase.

Jeff m2 said:

What does an individual need to save for a UK annuity providing 2K/month at 60?
Is it index linked?

£900k for index linked.

Jeff m2 said:

I do agree there were too many charges, morons, yes actuaries can appear to be less than interesting people, but whether it was a move forward I'm not sure.

You appear oblivious to how pension plans are currently priced (and how (and why) old schemes were priced differently!

I'd also bet you don't actually know any actuaries, just repeating the stereotype that applies to maybe 5-10% of the profession?!

Question - why do people choose to offer advice on a fairly specialist area when they clearly don't really understand what they are talking about...?! It happens all the time on the finance forum!

edited to correct my mistake, after Ian emphasised that the request was for £2k per month, not per annum!

Edited by sidicks on Thursday 10th December 19:48

[iantr]

sidicks said:

Jeff m2 said:

What does an individual need to save for a UK annuity providing 2K/month at 60?
Is it index linked?

£75k

.... ....

Question - why do people choose to offer advice on a fairly specialist area when they clearly don't really understand what they are talking about...?! It happens all the time on the finance forum!

Ahem.....

[sidicks]

iantr said:

Ahem.....

Thanks - now updated!

[Ozzie Osmond]

walm said:

Equitable Life? You mean the guys who ripped off their customers to the tune of £4-4.8bn?
Are they still in business?

Yes, that very name. Their Managed Fund is, amazingly, one of the ones which has done quite well.

[Ozzie Osmond]

walm said:

AFAIK no one offers DB these days. The schemes are all shut.

Public sector? Including, of course, our highly valuable MPs?

[Mattt]

Ozzie Osmond said:

walm said:

AFAIK no one offers DB these days. The schemes are all shut.

Public sector? Including, of course, our highly valuable MPs?

That's not a typical DB scheme though, just an elaborate Ponzi scheme.

[sidicks]

Mattt said:

Ozzie Osmond said:

walm said:

AFAIK no one offers DB these days. The schemes are all shut.

Public sector? Including, of course, our highly valuable MPs?

That's not a typical DB scheme though, just an elaborate Ponzi scheme.

Well there certainly are a few DB schemes still going in the private sector - with accrual for existing members if not new ones, but these are massively in the minority, for obvious reasons!

[walm]

sidicks said:

Question - why do people choose to offer advice on a fairly specialist area when they clearly don't really understand what they are talking about...?! It happens all the time on all the forums!

FTFY
You should try hanging out in S,P & L.

[sidicks]

walm said:

FTFY
You should try hanging out in S,P & L.

Really? I'd not noticed in the other dub-forums that I tend to visit, certainly not to the same extent as here. S, P & L is not somewhere I look at very frequently.

Right, I'm off to the TVR sub-forum to provide some ill-informed 'advice' about gearbox issues on a 1997 Chimaera...!