Self Assessment Question

[944fan]

I have done my SA for this year and I owe £1600 which was expected. I elected to have this collected via next years' tax code.

Now I am getting messages on the online thing saying I need to pay by X date or I will be fined. Is this just an automated thing everyone gets regardless if they selected that option? I don't really want to shell out all that in one go which is why I selected the tax code option.

[Pugster]

I take it you're PAYE as well as having some other outside income?

No that's a proper warning. It's probably too late to collect what you owe before the end of January in your tax code so you need to make sure you pay it before the end of January.

If you don't, you'll get a fine and interest will start racking up until you do pay it.

[The Leaper]

I am in a similar situation. I usually do my SA quite early in the tax year and then after electing that any unpaid tax is collected via the following year's coding, all works well. However, this year I did my SA quite recently and got a letter back from HMRC with their tax calculation showing a modest amount of unpaid tax (this is expected) and that it will be too late to get the underpaid amount into next year's coding notice (why, strange) and so I must pay up before 31.01.2016 or get a penalty fine for late payment.

R.

[dazwalsh]

If the deadlibe is january 31st then it also demands the first payment on account for thr forthcoming tax year.

[944fan]

Yes PAYE.

It said it had to be done by end of December to be collected via code and I did last week. Well within the allowed period.

[Eric Mc]

dazwalsh said:

If the deadlibe is january 31st then it also demands the first payment on account for thr forthcoming tax year.

Not everyone has to make Payments on Account.

[944fan]

They have an online chat service now. Got through to someone straight away (not like on the phone). They said I had checked the wrong box on my return. Pretty sure I didn't as I doubled checked it all but I must have made a mistake.

They have amended it so all should be fine.

Cheers all.

[Eric Mc]

944fan said:

They have an online chat service now. Got through to someone straight away (not like on the phone). They said I had checked the wrong box on my return. Pretty sure I didn't as I doubled checked it all but I must have made a mistake.

They have amended it so all should be fine.

Cheers all.

You do know they are breaking the law doing that?

[944fan]

Eric Mc said:

944fan said:

They have an online chat service now. Got through to someone straight away (not like on the phone). They said I had checked the wrong box on my return. Pretty sure I didn't as I doubled checked it all but I must have made a mistake.

They have amended it so all should be fine.

Cheers all.

You do know they are breaking the law doing that?

There was an option for me to go in an amend my return but they said they had done it? This was the person on the HMRC web chat so I doubt they would so something illegal?

What law have they broken?

[Eric Mc]

944fan said:

There was an option for me to go in an amend my return but they said they had done it? This was the person on the HMRC web chat so I doubt they would so something illegal?

What law have they broken?

HMRC has no power or right to amend a taxpayer's return. Under the Tax Regulations, if HMRC spots that there is a problem with the details provided by a taxpayer, they should -

a) open an enquiry into the return

b) write to the taxpayer notifying them that they have opened an enquiry

c) write to the taxpayer's agent if there is one

Once they have followed this procedure, the taxpayer should complete a "repaired" or "amended" return rectifying the situation and submit this.

Nobody in the tax office has the power to physically alter what, after all, was a legal submission and declaration made by a taxpayer.

https://www.gov.uk/self-assessment-tax-returns/cor...

[944fan]

So the person on their web chat has lied? And broken the law? Even if I asked them to change it? They haven't changed anything material in the actual return, just the option to collect the tax.

I'm not arguing and saying you are wrong but find it hard to believe they would do that if they weren't allowed.

I have gone in and amended it myself and made sure that option is checked and refiled.

Guess if I get a fine in Jan we'll find out that it didn't work

[Eric Mc]

944fan said:

So the person on their web chat has lied? And broken the law? Even if I asked them to change it? They haven't changed anything material in the actual return, just the option to collect the tax.

I'm not arguing and saying you are wrong but find it hard to believe they would do that if they weren't allowed.

I have gone in and amended it myself and made sure that option is checked and refiled.

Guess if I get a fine in Jan we'll find out that it didn't work

You won't get a fine. HMRC break their own rules all the time. They never fine themselves.

[55palfers]

Eric Mc said:

944fan said:

There was an option for me to go in an amend my return but they said they had done it? This was the person on the HMRC web chat so I doubt they would so something illegal?

What law have they broken?

HMRC has no power or right to amend a taxpayer's return. Under the Tax Regulations, if HMRC spots that there is a problem with the details provided by a taxpayer, they should -

a) open an enquiry into the return

b) write to the taxpayer notifying them that they have opened an enquiry

c) write to the taxpayer's agent if there is one

Once they have followed this procedure, the taxpayer should complete a "repaired" or "amended" return rectifying the situation and submit this.

Nobody in the tax office has the power to physically alter what, after all, was a legal submission and declaration made by a taxpayer.

https://www.gov.uk/self-assessment-tax-returns/cor...

They di it with me too.

Seems I had put my pension contributions into the wrong box for the 2013/14 tax year.

Got a letter and rang HMRC who said "No problem, a lot of people have done that since we changed the form, I'll alter it on my screen"

The end.

[Sheepshanks]

944fan said:

They have an online chat service now. Got through to someone straight away (not like on the phone). They said I had checked the wrong box on my return. Pretty sure I didn't as I doubled checked it all but I must have made a mistake.

They have amended it so all should be fine.

Cheers all.

I've had the same thing - got a demand for just under £1000. Did self-assessment submission ages ago and I checked it online today and in the section about shortfalls it says do nothing if you want it collected through PAYE next year or tick the box if you'd like to pay. The box was blank.

I'm in a quandary as I've seen it recommended that you don't carry amounts into the following year as it gets messy so it's best to pay them off. But my shortfall is for a (hopefully) one-off event (firm paid for some dental work last year due to a misunderstanding with our policy cover) and HMRC had already picked it up and whacked up this years code, so I'm going to end up over-paying this year.

[Eric Mc]

55palfers said:

They di it with me too.

Seems I had put my pension contributions into the wrong box for the 2013/14 tax year.

Got a letter and rang HMRC who said "No problem, a lot of people have done that since we changed the form, I'll alter it on my screen"

The end.

As I said, they ignore their own regulations quite a lot.

[sumo69]

I believe the SA regulations allow HMRC to make amendments if they have a reasonable belief that there has been an error, but they cannot do it without notifying the taxpayer.

As he was on the phone/conversing via the new online chat feature, I cannot see what the problem is bearing in mind the taxpayer could always have gone online and resubmitted his return to get the same result.

Time for a chill pill!

David

[Eric Mc]

The point I made is that HMRC are quite happy to ignore their own regulations when it suits them. They are far less happy if a taxpayer chooses to ignore the regulations.

There is no specific mention in the Self Assessment regulations about HMRC correcting errors over the phone. It's become a modus operandi for them which they chose to use now and then.

HMRC does a lot outside the regulations, regulations that they themselves have created. Some of it is even codified in their Extra Statutory Concessions. It's the non-codified techniques that are a bit worrying because it leads to inconsistency and uncertainty.

[schmunk]

Nah, pragmatism rocks. More of it, I say.

[Eric Mc]

schmunk said:

Nah, pragmatism rocks. More of it, I say.

I'm not against it - but it does mean that taxpayers don't really know where they stand - and how a taxpayer is treated will depend on the whim of the HMRC officer they are dealing with.

[GT03ROB]

Eric Mc said:

schmunk said:

Nah, pragmatism rocks. More of it, I say.

I'm not against it - but it does mean that taxpayers don't really know where they stand - and how a taxpayer is treated will depend on the whim of the HMRC officer they are dealing with.

True. The more complex & cumbersome they make the system, the more the pragmatic approach is needed though.

I've dealt with them a bit this year over a few issues. In my written correspondence I have had nothing but a pragmatic reasonable approach. I'd made bit of a cock up & for various reasons had not corrected it. Strictly was probably liable for a couple of grand in fines, but I explained circumstances & they came back with Ok, just don't do it again.

I then dealt with them by phone with a mistake they had then made & the person I was dealing with was rude bordering on aggressive being totally unreasonable, insisting they were right when they clearly weren't.