Lease cars and lack of pension provision
Discussion
sidicks said:
craigjm said:
Thing is if we want young people to think about their future and start saving for it then the language of the industry has to change. It doesn't engage young people and it doesn't create the burning platform that they need to think "right I need to do something about that"
Look at how they are selling car leases to the young and the language used... Just add petrol etc. Now someone my age might think hmm how much does a service cost? how much can i get insurance for? and then consider if the "all inclusive" package is worth it. Lots of young people I know wouldnt do that they think "can I afford the monthly?" and thats it. The marketing and language of the pensions, and to a great extent the financial sector as a whole, needs to change if it is going to engage Millenials.
How exactly?Look at how they are selling car leases to the young and the language used... Just add petrol etc. Now someone my age might think hmm how much does a service cost? how much can i get insurance for? and then consider if the "all inclusive" package is worth it. Lots of young people I know wouldnt do that they think "can I afford the monthly?" and thats it. The marketing and language of the pensions, and to a great extent the financial sector as a whole, needs to change if it is going to engage Millenials.
Future investment returns, longevity, interest rates are all highly uncertain.
TSCfree said:
craigjm said:
Im not disagreeing with you at all but then im not 21 and blessed with an outlook where the world owes me. Sometimes when you try and talk to people under 25 about all this kind of stuff you wonder what planet they are on is my point.
Sweeping generalisations aside, a lot of student 21 years old are blessed with owing the world quite lot....It's not surprising those who decide to invest in their future would have little time for pension provisions. It's just not that relevant given the debt they're in.craigjm said:
That is exactly my point. If you tell people future investments are uncertain, longevity is uncertain, interest rates are uncertain etc then you are talking to them in a language which is going to make them put their fingers in their ears and say "not listening". The industry needs to work out what will make them listen and if I had the answer to that right here right now well I would be selling it to the financial institutions.
To my mind, common sense says that if things are uncertain you start making provision as soon as possible!sidicks said:
craigjm said:
That is exactly my point. If you tell people future investments are uncertain, longevity is uncertain, interest rates are uncertain etc then you are talking to them in a language which is going to make them put their fingers in their ears and say "not listening". The industry needs to work out what will make them listen and if I had the answer to that right here right now well I would be selling it to the financial institutions.
To my mind, common sense says that if things are uncertain you start making provision as soon as possible!
k it I might not make it and if I do then I will deal with it then" Sheepshanks said:
sidicks said:
To my mind, common sense says that if things are uncertain you start making provision as soon as possible!
Seriously - it's the other way around with younger people. Uncertainty to them means there's no point in planning for the future - spend it all now.A lot of it is surely to do with the constant bad news about pension provision and wealth/debt of the younger generations?
Just last week there was a hoohaa about millennials being the first generation expected to be poorer than their parents. Personal debt is at a record high. Not even education is free anymore as people who had fully subsided and bursaried university education voted to charge students £30k for a degree in nonsense from an ex polytechnic that the system pressures them into undertaking. Property is unaffordable to a large number with people living at home with parents for longer than ever before and then having to take enormous mortgages to get on the ladder.
Meanwhile our parents and grandparents are retiring in their 50's cruising around the world having done jobs that wouldn't provide anywhere near the same standard of living for those in their 20's now. The young will have to wait longer for a state pension that will undoubtedly be lower (this is of course an argument for saving for retirement but I'm using it as an example of resentment) and through taxation continue to subsidise the ridiculous pension arrangements of retired public sector workers.
I'm only 30 and I've got a very good pension and wouldn't be without one but when you consider the above I can understand why millennials feel aggrieved. Of course that's no argument for not saving but for many servicing debts takes priority over saving for a retirement that is being pushed further and further away.
Just last week there was a hoohaa about millennials being the first generation expected to be poorer than their parents. Personal debt is at a record high. Not even education is free anymore as people who had fully subsided and bursaried university education voted to charge students £30k for a degree in nonsense from an ex polytechnic that the system pressures them into undertaking. Property is unaffordable to a large number with people living at home with parents for longer than ever before and then having to take enormous mortgages to get on the ladder.
Meanwhile our parents and grandparents are retiring in their 50's cruising around the world having done jobs that wouldn't provide anywhere near the same standard of living for those in their 20's now. The young will have to wait longer for a state pension that will undoubtedly be lower (this is of course an argument for saving for retirement but I'm using it as an example of resentment) and through taxation continue to subsidise the ridiculous pension arrangements of retired public sector workers.
I'm only 30 and I've got a very good pension and wouldn't be without one but when you consider the above I can understand why millennials feel aggrieved. Of course that's no argument for not saving but for many servicing debts takes priority over saving for a retirement that is being pushed further and further away.
sidicks said:
craigjm said:
Exactly this.
If only we could educate them in school!If you look at the media that a lot of young people subscribe to these are the kind of messages you will hear and that we are all f
ked because the baby boomers are now living on all of the wealth etc. They havent experienced the other side of the coin with big recessions and mortgage rates at 10% etc..... Yet! craigjm said:
TSCfree said:
craigjm said:
Im not disagreeing with you at all but then im not 21 and blessed with an outlook where the world owes me. Sometimes when you try and talk to people under 25 about all this kind of stuff you wonder what planet they are on is my point.
Sweeping generalisations aside, a lot of student 21 years old are blessed with owing the world quite lot....It's not surprising those who decide to invest in their future would have little time for pension provisions. It's just not that relevant given the debt they're in.so essentially my pension will be considerably reduced, one reason is so that shareholders can be paid dividends Doh! Another thing that 'younger' people should understand is that whilst the older generation may own thier own homes many of us had two or three jobs and what is not often mentioned is the interest rate of around 17% was applied so no it wasn't easier or cheaper for the older generation. Then there was the con of the endowment mortgage so may people were left short of paying off thier mortgage as the endowment didn't pay out. There are many people today who have 'cheap' interest only mortgages......with never a hope of clearing the capital they borrowed and that is a small time bomb waiting to go off.
So if your young <25 then save something regularly doesn't matter how small just do it. >25+ sort a pension its starting to get urgent, forget the lease car buy something cheap that gets you from A-B and reliable cars today even with high milage tend to be far more reliable than one that had done 30,000 miles 30 years ago
Edited by Toaster on Sunday 19th February 18:48
The reason pensions are not attractive to the young:
1. They come with the caveat that the pension provider can steal all or part of it, or go bust and take it with them, at any time.
2. They come with the caveat that the government can raid them at any time....as they have already done.
3. To attain anything even vaguely worthwhile you are expected to pay up to two thirds of your income...not even remotely affordable for people on low wages such as £18k.
4. Lack of job security.....regular redundancies are now a fact of life, and some workplace pension providers are now charging "transfer fees" to move pensions from your previous employer to your new one, wiping out what minimal benefit you may have gained.
The workplace pension scheme is little more than a government sponsored scam to extract money from both employees and employers, and hand it over to financial institutions for minimal effort.
The above all needs to change before people will take it seriously. That said, I do partake in my employer's default workplace scheme but it seems barely worth it. If it wasn't for the employer matching the contribution, it's difficult to see how it's any better than a shoebox under the bed I'm afraid, and even then it looks doubtful.
1. They come with the caveat that the pension provider can steal all or part of it, or go bust and take it with them, at any time.
2. They come with the caveat that the government can raid them at any time....as they have already done.
3. To attain anything even vaguely worthwhile you are expected to pay up to two thirds of your income...not even remotely affordable for people on low wages such as £18k.
4. Lack of job security.....regular redundancies are now a fact of life, and some workplace pension providers are now charging "transfer fees" to move pensions from your previous employer to your new one, wiping out what minimal benefit you may have gained.
The workplace pension scheme is little more than a government sponsored scam to extract money from both employees and employers, and hand it over to financial institutions for minimal effort.
The above all needs to change before people will take it seriously. That said, I do partake in my employer's default workplace scheme but it seems barely worth it. If it wasn't for the employer matching the contribution, it's difficult to see how it's any better than a shoebox under the bed I'm afraid, and even then it looks doubtful.
Edited by zarjaz1991 on Sunday 19th February 18:57
Toaster said:
As a young guy for me a pension was not only next century it was next millennium so as far as I was concerned earning very little at the time there was no point in saving a tiny % of a tiny wage. Then things changed I went in to a company pension paid my dues and happy to do so, my pension which I have paid out of my wages in to stopped being a final salary scheme and a nice word conjured up called Care being "Career Avarage" so essentially my pension will be considerably reduced, one reason is so that shareholders can be paid dividends Doh!
CARE schemes are not necessarily less generous than Final Salary schemes.Increases in longevity and reductions in interest rates mean that the typical DB scheme is now massive expensive (and has been for some time). If you are still in a CARE scheme then you are still massive lucky.
Toaster said:
Another thing that 'younger' people should understand is that whilst the older generation may own thier own homes many of us had two or three jobs and what is not often mentioned is the interest rate of around 17% was applied so no it wasn't easier or cheaper for the older generation.
Then there was the con of the endowment mortgage so may people were left short of paying off thier mortgage as the endowment didn't pay out. There are many people today who have 'cheap' interest only mortgages......with never a hope of clearing the capital they borrowed and that is a small time bomb waiting to go off.
No con, simply that the investment returns reduced significantly over time - as evidenced by the reduction from 17% to 5% (and lower) that you acknowledge above!!Then there was the con of the endowment mortgage so may people were left short of paying off thier mortgage as the endowment didn't pay out. There are many people today who have 'cheap' interest only mortgages......with never a hope of clearing the capital they borrowed and that is a small time bomb waiting to go off.
Toaster said:
So if your young <25 then save something regularly doesn't matter how small just do it. >25+ sort a pension its starting to get urgent, forget the lease car buy something cheap that gets you from A-B and reliable cars today even with high milage tend to be far more reliable than one that had done 30,000 miles 30 years ago
Good advice - sacrifices have to be made!Also...older people....please stop telling us younger types how irresponsible we are.
Yes you have a nice final salary pension...they came with many jobs when you were our age. And that job was often for life, not a few months until the next round of cost savings, like today.
Yes you bought a house at age 20....but a house cost £36 back then!
Yes you didn't spend a fortune on cars when you were young...but insurance didn't cost several months' salary back then.
Leave us alone, many of us are trying our best and it's not particularly easy.
Yes you have a nice final salary pension...they came with many jobs when you were our age. And that job was often for life, not a few months until the next round of cost savings, like today.
Yes you bought a house at age 20....but a house cost £36 back then!
Yes you didn't spend a fortune on cars when you were young...but insurance didn't cost several months' salary back then.
Leave us alone, many of us are trying our best and it's not particularly easy.
zarjaz1991 said:
The reason pensions are not attractive to the young:
1. They come with the caveat that th epension probider can steal all or part of it, or go bust and take it with them, at any time.
So, we have another stupid idiot who doesn't have the first idea what he is talking about? Wow, where did you come from and why did you bother?1. They come with the caveat that th epension probider can steal all or part of it, or go bust and take it with them, at any time.
zarjaz1991 said:
2. They come with the caveat that the government can raid them at any time....as they have already done.
it seems as though you are confusing DB and DB schemes (and confusing a change in future taxation with a reduction in value)?zarjaz1991 said:
3. To attain anything even vaguely worthwhile you are expected to pay up to two thirds of your income...not even remotely affordable for people on low wages such as £18k.
Absolute nonsense.zarjaz1991 said:
4. Lack of job security.....regular redundancies are now a fact of life, and some workplace pension providers are now charging "transfer fees" to move pensions from your previous employer to your new one, wiping out what minimal benefit you may have gained.
Not true and in any case you don't need to transfer when you move jobs!zarjaz1991 said:
The workplace pension scheme is little more than a government sponsored scam to extract money from both employees and employers, and hand it over to financial institutions for minimal effort.
More nonsense.zarjaz1991 said:
The above all needs to change before people will take it seriously. That said, I do partake in my employer's default workplace scheme but it seems barely worth it. If it wasn't for the employer matching the contribution, it's difficult to see how it's any better than a shoebox under the bed I'm afraid, and even then it looks doubtful.
And yet more nonsense.How dull.
zarjaz1991 said:
sidicks said:
And yet more nonsense.
How dull.
It certainly isn't nonsense in my experience, and if you think it is, why not elucidate?How dull.
Instead you just dismiss legitimate concerns with personal abuse, calling people idiots. And you wonder why people aren't interested in pensions.
Sidicks this is exactly what I was talking about above.... you are interacting with Zarjaz like he knows nothing and you are his dad trying to show him "the way". Exactly what I said doesn't work and why the pensions industry is in the s
t amongst others when it comes to millennials. zarjaz1991 said:
It certainly isn't nonsense in my experience, and if you think it is, why not elucidate?
Please share your 'experience' in the context...!zarjaz1991 said:
Instead you just dismiss legitimate concerns with personal abuse, calling people idiots. And you wonder why people aren't interested in pensions.
The provider can steal all or part of it or go bust and take it with them.
The government can raid them at any time
You have to pay 2/3rds of your income to have anything worthwhile.
You have to transfer your funds and the costs wipeout your gains
It's a scam to give money to pension companies
no better than putting money into a shoebox under the bed
craigjm said:
Sidicks this is exactly what I was talking about above.... you are interacting with Zarjaz like he knows nothing and you are his dad trying to show him "the way". Exactly what I said doesn't work and why the pensions industry is in the s
t amongst others when it comes to millennials. sidicks said:
craigjm said:
Sidicks this is exactly what I was talking about above.... you are interacting with Zarjaz like he knows nothing and you are his dad trying to show him "the way". Exactly what I said doesn't work and why the pensions industry is in the s
t amongst others when it comes to millennials. Gassing Station | Finance | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff