Bitcoin et al

[Behemoth]

bloomen said:

I've never understood why Ripple was ever lumped in with cryptocurrencies. It doesn't resemble them in multiple fundamental ways.

You & me too. XRP are tokens issued by a company, most of which (~60% iirc) are held by that company. But the useful development work is being done by the company to benefit the bank consortium's private transaction processes. It's entirely disconnected from these public tokens, so I'm at a bit of a loss as to why people are punting XRP.

If the company (once Ripple Labs, but they kept changing names) had regulated public shares under proper governance, I'd understand the investment approach. But their tokens? It may work for speculators short term, but I hope it works out well for anyone that intends hanging on to these XRP tokens for longer. Ripple Labs has very good marketing team, that's for sure.

[anonymous-user]

i never get the short thing, a 500 million volume doesn't disappear overnight, maybe if they are listed then the price might drop, but the crypto world is more than currency, assets are more the correct term. the thing is this world trades 24h 7 days a week maybe people dont want to invest on the stock market and prefer the crypto world.

[Behemoth]

The Spruce goose said:

the crypto world is more than currency, assets are more the correct term

I agree with the first, only partly for the second. For example, what is the Ripple XRP asset? The Ripple tokens seem fundamentally worthless to me. It seems to me that the company controlling ~60% of these XRPs could inflate or pull the rug or dump on the market or trickle to the market or change their protocols or source code at any time. Or indeed, they could short the market and manipulate it by acting in one or more of these ways.

Their market value has absolutely no bearing on the transaction ledger work they are progressing with their banking clients unless they need to sell a bit of their stash so they can hire coders & burn some more developer hours getting their ledger stuff working properly. And that's very possible..

[bloomen]

The Spruce goose said:

i never get the short thing, a 500 million volume doesn't disappear overnight

Yes it can. I've had coins that had volumes in the tens of millions that went back down to a few tens of thousands. It's easy to become too comfortable with something when in reality all the traders are skittishly looking for the next pump and will run away in no time.

That money is completely disembodied. It rarely leaves the exchanges and the only reason it's on there is for profit and it doesn't matter what you use to get it.

However it seems like Ripple is going big in Korea so that one place could prop it up for an age.

Poloniex is almost single handedly responsible for all of these bonkers valuations. It's pump city and nothing else.

[g4ry13]

I have been thinking about this and have a question / concern about this stuff. I could be completely wrong about this.

At the very beginning Bitcoin could be mined on PCs and was fairly basic. This evolved into requiring a huge amount of computing power as the algorithms become more complex to solve. Whole warehouses are filled up with computers crunching away in order to unlock the next coins. Millions are invested into the technology, rent, power bill. It obviously is currently making economical sense to these bitcoin mining companies.

As Bitcoin becomes more expensive to mine, does it not move the power of the currency towards a select few organisations who are able to have economies of scale by mining them and processing the ledger? Effectively centralising the distributors of the coins and potentially giving them power to shut the payment system down.

In addition, Bitcoin mining on this scale can only continue if the value of Bitcoin increases. If Bitcoin was worth $50 it surely can't be economical for companies to invest those sums of money into mining the coins?

[dtmpower]

If bitcoin was suddenly worth $50 and the mining rate decreased, I think it might actually then attract more small miners as their mining would be a larger % relatively.

Not all small miners are looking for quick profits.

[WindyCommon]

Some interesting images of bitcoin mining in China.

http://www.nytimes.com/slideshow/2016/07/03/busine...

[g4ry13]

dtmpower said:

If bitcoin was suddenly worth $50 and the mining rate decreased, I think it might actually then attract more small miners as their mining would be a larger % relatively.

Not all small miners are looking for quick profits.

How long is it going to take a PC to mine some coins if on the off-chance all the big players left the market? Are we talking a day or weeks? I'm thinking about the cost of electricity to power a computer for that time vs the value of a coin.

How quickly would transactions be processed without the big mining warehouses operating?

[bloomen]

g4ry13 said:

As Bitcoin becomes more expensive to mine, does it not move the power of the currency towards a select few organisations who are able to have economies of scale by mining them and processing the ledger? Effectively centralising the distributors of the coins and potentially giving them power to shut the payment system down.

This has already happened. A small group of miners and mining pool operators have a vast amount of power. Most of it is in China, there are some smaller operations to counter balance it in the US and elsewhere.

Also Bitmain controls 70% of mining machine production. This isn't healthy and I hope it changes. I'm not convinced it will.

[anonymous-user]

bitcoin can only be mined by expensive complicated computing power.

But it is possible to mine coins at home using a cpu or more commonly gpus. the scripts of the coin are made to defeat asic (ethereum for example ) mining so therefore hinder control by a central power like what happened with bitcoin mining.
i mine coins using gpus as well as making a few quid i give something back to the industry and hobbist in keeping alive the networks.

you can mine via nicehash and get paid in btc.

edit just checked and ripple has done nearly 10 times in less than a month

Edited by The Spruce goose on Wednesday 17th May 22:10

[g4ry13]

Ethereum smashed through $100 the other day. I have done some more research and not sure I like the sound of Ripple at all.

I'd probably opt for Ethereum or Ethereum classic to invest in. Getting hold of them and setting up the wallet seems a bit complex/unsecure and i'm a little hesitant to do this. I have seen that you can spreadbet on some places but ideally i'd hang on to some coins for a few years without having to worrying about financing a position.

[bloomen]

Both the Ledger Nano S and Trezor can do ETH and ETC wallets now. They're the most secure way to store coins and you can use them through the most virus ravaged computer with no fear of a hack.

[Behemoth]

g4ry13 said:

I have done some more research and not sure I like the sound of Ripple at all.

I'd probably opt for Ethereum or Ethereum classic to invest in.

Not sure why you'd do both. Another to look at in the same sphere is Lisk. It's interesting because the scripting language used for its smart contracts (JavaScript) has a large existing base of experienced programmers. Solidity is Ethereums's scripting language. It is used only for Ethereum apps and runs only on the Ethereum blockchain. JavaScript is a universal web language, used in vast numbers of web applications for well over a decade now. You experience the web through JS on almost every site you look at, including this forum which has ~20 separate JS scripts running when you read this post. So if smart contracts take off, they'll be far easier to get done in JS than through Ethereum's new language.

[rufusgti]

I'm having trouble getting a coinfloor account, I had the email that I was fully verified but when I signed in it says My account is suspended?.
I've emailed them but no response as yet.
I find the whole thing a minefield and very complicated. Frustratingly so for someone with little knowledge of computing. I tell myself that this is why my coins are cheap and will rocker in value as they become more mainstream and easy to use/trade. Let's hope so, a good year thus far.

[anonymous-user]

rufusgti said:

I find the whole thing a minefield and very complicated. Frustratingly so for someone with little knowledge of computing.

it feels they same to me, there are companies valued in the 100s of millions that from my viewpoint are pretty worthless, but it seems a bit like a closed group, things are done to make it difficult to outsiders. i'm still learning only been doing it 4 months but stick to what i know, which is reflected in what i have invested in. (eth, decred, lbry credits, edgeless, dash and trade a few based on mining profitability)
i think it is a weakness as well BTC backlog (261k transaction at last count, a days worth) and still climbing yet the confidence is still high, i take this as a potential risk.
It is is good to be an outsider you can view things objectively and not get suckered into the whole this will solve the worlds issues a lot seem to think.
Had a good month this month around 50% profit not mega money but getting there.

i found coinbase the easiest to use, i tried loads of others bitpanda, coinify. etc

Edited by The Spruce goose on Saturday 20th May 21:32

Edited by The Spruce goose on Saturday 20th May 21:33

[anonymous-user]

ethereum at 172 dollars and still rising, btc up as well.

[Henrico]

I'd still recommend investing in Bitcoin if you're in it for the long term. It has first mover advantage and the best group of devs working on it. The other alts are in more of a bubble than Bitcoin in my opinion which will bomb at some point. Ripple is a semi-centralised token for banks which is massively over-valued at the moment. Litecoin gets my vote but is basically a poor man's Bitcoin. We'll see...

[anonymous-user]

Henrico said:

I'd still recommend investing in Bitcoin if you're in it for the long term. It has first mover advantage and the best group of devs working on it. The other alts are in more of a bubble than Bitcoin in my opinion which will bomb at some point. Ripple is a semi-centralised token for banks which is massively over-valued at the moment. Litecoin gets my vote but is basically a poor man's Bitcoin. We'll see...

i know that btc price is propped up by exchanges but 46% market share and a growing massive backlog put me off, that is why i prefer eth i can send my funds quickly and easily, i dont want to wait days. i use bitcoin and have some but prefer other alts that offer more than btc.

the word bubble is banded around with impunity , but the definition means the bubble bursts when the man on street invests, which is at least a year away. any bubble would effect btc anyway, like i said the exchanges keep btc high through demand by using it list against the alt coins. it has a lot of infrastructure behind it, but in relative terms it is slow and old tech, new people into cryto see the potential other btc holders don't.

Edited by The Spruce goose on Monday 22 May 08:56

[Henrico]

The Spruce goose said:

i know that btc price is propped up by exchanges but 46% market share and a growing massive backlog put me off, that is why i prefer eth i can send my funds quickly and easily, i dont want to wait days. i use bitcoin and have some but prefer other alts that offer more than btc.

the word bubble is banded around with impunity , but the definition means the bubble bursts when the man on street invests, which is at least a year away. any bubble would effect btc anyway, like i said the exchanges keep btc high through demand by using it list against the alt coins. it has a lot of infrastructure behind it, but in relative terms it is slow and old tech, new people into cryto see the potential other btc holders don't.

Edited by The Spruce goose on Monday 22 May 08:56

I'm talking long term here. Also, BTC has a use case (store of value mainly at the moment) and is currently undervalued, Ethereum currently doesn't have a usecase therefore currently is wildly overvalued. Also, to say it's old tech is missing the point, it's the most secure crypto out there by far which is why it takes a long time to get changes agreed. It has far and away the best group of devs working on it who can add features as and when. When segwit activates it'll leave the rest trailing in it's wake..

[anonymous-user]

Henrico said:

I'm talking long term here. Also, BTC has a use case (store of value mainly at the moment) and is currently undervalued, Ethereum currently doesn't have a usecase therefore currently is wildly overvalued. Also, to say it's old tech is missing the point, it's the most secure crypto out there by far which is why it takes a long time to get changes agreed. It has far and away the best group of devs working on it who can add features as and when. When segwit activates it'll leave the rest trailing in it's wake..

i disagree with this but only time will tell. i'm not sure what you mean ethereum doesn't have a use case, it is a platform for loads of different stuff, but 1600% growth means it is doing something right. i personally don't care about any of it i i only in it to make money, so don't get hung up on holding coins etc i know one thing i am still waiting on a btc deposit 24 hours later lol