PCP misselling.
Discussion
Fast Bug said:
daemon said:
TBH anyone who starts bleating about being "mis-sold" is just hoping for com-pen-say-shun.
And hasn't read the finance agreement they've signedThere isnt a whole pile to it - pay the deposit, make the payments, hand it back.
I really dont think there are that many people out there who think that they can "buy" a brand new £12,000 car for £129 a month over three years and own it?
Either they're terminally dim or chose not to listen. Either way, they werent "mis-sold" the product.
I addressed the issue of 'leasing' quite a few days back.
Notwithstanding that, thank you for your points.
Notwithstanding that, thank you for your points.
daemon said:
You keep talking saying lease when talking about PCP. They are two different products.
Also i dont get the "The guaranteed future value risk warnings were practically non existent and didn't numerate any shortfall consequences" - at the end of a PCP deal, you can hand the car back with nothing further to pay (subject to fair wear and tear). If there is a shortfall in the value of the car relative to the GFV then its the finance companys problem.
With a PCP deal, you pay a deposit, monthly payments then either pay the residual value or hand the car back.
Its not complicated, its been around since the 1980s and TBH anyone who starts bleating about being "mis-sold" is just hoping for com-pen-say-shun.
Also i dont get the "The guaranteed future value risk warnings were practically non existent and didn't numerate any shortfall consequences" - at the end of a PCP deal, you can hand the car back with nothing further to pay (subject to fair wear and tear). If there is a shortfall in the value of the car relative to the GFV then its the finance companys problem.
With a PCP deal, you pay a deposit, monthly payments then either pay the residual value or hand the car back.
Its not complicated, its been around since the 1980s and TBH anyone who starts bleating about being "mis-sold" is just hoping for com-pen-say-shun.
Read this in the FT this morning. You *might* need a log in.
https://www.ft.com/content/d340ea28-5040-11e7-bfb8...
https://www.ft.com/content/d340ea28-5040-11e7-bfb8...
Ginge R said:
Read this in the FT this morning. You *might* need a log in.
https://www.ft.com/content/d340ea28-5040-11e7-bfb8...
Behind a paywall. https://www.ft.com/content/d340ea28-5040-11e7-bfb8...
Googled it but theres no other source of it yet.
liner33 said:
I was put very much in my place when I suggested to someone who had signed up to £16k yes £16k of PPI on his loans, that he hadnt done his homework properly, his excuse was they wouldn't offer me the money unless I went for the protection
That is a big issue - way back in the 80s with the endowment mis-selling scandal - you wouldn't be sold the house unless you took out the endowment policy that went with it. I bought a new car earlier this year, and you had to buy it via the pcp route, or else you wouldn't get the broker discount deals. You could terminate the pcp agreement within 14 days...but was made difficult for you to do. Ginge R said:
You were compelled to go down the PCP route.. to get a discount?
I think they're several steps ahead of you with this one - there are manufacturers contributions if you use their finance.They're clearly marked as part of the finance deposit.
You dont "have" to take out the finance, and its not discount off the car.
And likewise you can cancel the finance.
Edited by daemon on Sunday 25th June 18:43
Its an incentive to use the finance, not a pre-requisite to buying the car.
Edited by daemon on Sunday 25th June 18:43
I'm not disputing any of that, the regulator has conducted a thematic review into 'Risks to Customers' from financial incentives. I'm surprised that product bias was introduced like this though - it makes the responsibility on the sales team even more onerous.
https://www.fca.org.uk/publication/thematic-review...
https://www.fca.org.uk/publication/thematic-review...
Ginge R said:
I addressed the issue of 'leasing' quite a few days back.
Notwithstanding that, thank you for your points.
Contract Purchase and Contract Hire are both leases, just different kinds.Notwithstanding that, thank you for your points.
daemon said:
You keep talking saying lease when talking about PCP. They are two different products.
Also i dont get the "The guaranteed future value risk warnings were practically non existent and didn't numerate any shortfall consequences" - at the end of a PCP deal, you can hand the car back with nothing further to pay (subject to fair wear and tear). If there is a shortfall in the value of the car relative to the GFV then its the finance companys problem.
With a PCP deal, you pay a deposit, monthly payments then either pay the residual value or hand the car back.
Its not complicated, its been around since the 1980s and TBH anyone who starts bleating about being "mis-sold" is just hoping for com-pen-say-shun.
Also i dont get the "The guaranteed future value risk warnings were practically non existent and didn't numerate any shortfall consequences" - at the end of a PCP deal, you can hand the car back with nothing further to pay (subject to fair wear and tear). If there is a shortfall in the value of the car relative to the GFV then its the finance companys problem.
With a PCP deal, you pay a deposit, monthly payments then either pay the residual value or hand the car back.
Its not complicated, its been around since the 1980s and TBH anyone who starts bleating about being "mis-sold" is just hoping for com-pen-say-shun.
condor said:
That is a big issue - way back in the 80s with the endowment mis-selling scandal - you wouldn't be sold the house unless you took out the endowment policy that went with it. I bought a new car earlier this year, and you had to buy it via the pcp route, or else you wouldn't get the broker discount deals. You could terminate the pcp agreement within 14 days...but was made difficult for you to do.
The use of artificially inflated RRPs and fake discounts to steer people into 'house' debt is a massive issue and an area which should be ended by dislocating the act of purchasing debt from the act of procuring the use of a vehicle. At the same time the selling of finance packages by people on commission is a massive no no. It has been changed everywhere else in the industry except the vending to retail debt. That must change. There must be no incentives to salesmen when selling debt.
The suitability checks for retail debt are far too lax and should be pulled into line with the rest of the industry.
Mix in with lax credit vending the manufacturer price manipulations anboth the front and back end of the market place in order to facilitate the vending of debt and that it leads to open discrimination against consumers who do not purchase 'house' debt products and this is a rich minefield should the Govt wish to make it so.
In short, retail debt is massively behind the regulatory curve and is riddled with hideous and unscrupulous practices. Combine that with the wilful ignorances of the masses and their desire to consume at any cost and we do have a very rich compensation scheme available for mining.
It will also be a good economic boost to give the army of feckless spenders some free money to go and instantly hurl into the economy. And in addition most of the vendors involved are overseas brands, mainly European so an additional political angle there.
Edited by DonkeyApple on Monday 26th June 08:30
DonkeyApple said:
The use of artificially inflated RRPs and fake discounts to steer people into 'house' debt is a massive issue and an area which should be ended by dislocating the act of purchasing debt from the act of procuring the use of a vehicle.
I’d use “force” rather than “steer”. I’ve walked away from a few hundred pounds to avoid the hassle but faced with a “deposit contribution” of several thousand pounds you have to take the PCP - and then Withdraw later. DonkeyApple said:
Combine that with the wilful ignorances of the masses and their desire to consume at any cost and we do have a very rich compensation scheme available for mining.
What would be the basis of the claim – ie what have the people who took PCPs lost? I can’t imagine there’s that many people forced to hand their cars back as they couldn’t keep up the payments.Arguably the losers are cash buyer who overpaid as they weren’t offered the same discounts. No idea how the car industry gets away with such differential pricing.
CaptainSlow said:
Contract Purchase and Contract Hire are both leases, just different kinds.
Erm....no they're not. As mentioned, Contract Purchase is a purchase agreement in which you are the registered keeper and will become the owner of the vehicle once all payments are made. Contract Hire is an operating lease where you are not the registered keeper. Under a contract hire or lease agreement you never gain title to the asset.CaptainSlow said:
Contract Purchase and Contract Hire are both leases, just different kinds.
Erm....no they're not. As mentioned, Contract Purchase is a purchase agreement in which you are the registered keeper and will become the owner of the vehicle once all payments are made. Contract Hire is an operating lease where you are not the registered keeper. Under a contract hire or lease agreement you never gain title to the asset.rfoster said:
CaptainSlow said:
Contract Purchase and Contract Hire are both leases, just different kinds.
Erm....no they're not. As mentioned, Contract Purchase is a purchase agreement in which you are the registered keeper and will become the owner of the vehicle once all payments are made. Contract Hire is an operating lease where you are not the registered keeper. Under a contract hire or lease agreement you never gain title to the asset.What everyone call 'leasing' isn't really leasing at all - it's contract hire.
Sheepshanks said:
rfoster said:
CaptainSlow said:
Contract Purchase and Contract Hire are both leases, just different kinds.
Erm....no they're not. As mentioned, Contract Purchase is a purchase agreement in which you are the registered keeper and will become the owner of the vehicle once all payments are made. Contract Hire is an operating lease where you are not the registered keeper. Under a contract hire or lease agreement you never gain title to the asset.What everyone call 'leasing' isn't really leasing at all - it's contract hire.
I guess there could be potential claims regarding the inclusion of add ons to the agreement, particularly where the dealer is maybe less than transparent, the more hard of thinking among us are only looking at the monthly figure on page one..not the accumulated one on page two. I have even heard of the fuel added being included in the PCP deal.
If it was determined that using 'deposit contributions' to steer people into using 'house' finance is incorrect (which it very manifestly is on several fronts) then pretty much anyone who has procured a car in the last decade or so would have a claim whether they were pushed into house deals by commissioned salesmen or whether they were charged more for using non-house deals.
Cars in the UK are still being sold via 70s door to door practices and not 21st century finance practices. Retail finance is a glorious mugging off of all consumers whether they use finance or not.
The question in this Brexit environment is whether the powers that be favour protecting the status quo to keep consumers over spending or whether they opt for having consumers given lump sums under a ppi2 scenario.
Cars in the UK are still being sold via 70s door to door practices and not 21st century finance practices. Retail finance is a glorious mugging off of all consumers whether they use finance or not.
The question in this Brexit environment is whether the powers that be favour protecting the status quo to keep consumers over spending or whether they opt for having consumers given lump sums under a ppi2 scenario.
liner33 said:
Sheepshanks said:
rfoster said:
CaptainSlow said:
Contract Purchase and Contract Hire are both leases, just different kinds.
Erm....no they're not. As mentioned, Contract Purchase is a purchase agreement in which you are the registered keeper and will become the owner of the vehicle once all payments are made. Contract Hire is an operating lease where you are not the registered keeper. Under a contract hire or lease agreement you never gain title to the asset.What everyone call 'leasing' isn't really leasing at all - it's contract hire.
CP isn't a purchase agreement, and along with CH is an Operating Lease. I've had arguments on here before with people stating CP is a Finance Lease...which it isn't.
The registered keeper is irrelevant...some lessors stay as the RK and some don't.
CaptainSlow said:
Correct and correct again.
CP isn't a purchase agreement, and along with CH is an Operating Lease. I've had arguments on here before with people stating CP is a Finance Lease...which it isn't.
The registered keeper is irrelevant...some lessors stay as the RK and some don't.
With respect, I'm not really sure where you are getting your information from. Contract Purchase / PCP is not a form of operating lease. It is hire purchase agreement with the option to return the vehicle instead of making the final payment. As far as your accounting is concerned - through a business you can offset depreciation of the vehicle against your taxable profits as it is considered an asset. Assuming you make all payments on the agreement (including any balloon payment) you will become the unencumbered owner of the vehicle.CP isn't a purchase agreement, and along with CH is an Operating Lease. I've had arguments on here before with people stating CP is a Finance Lease...which it isn't.
The registered keeper is irrelevant...some lessors stay as the RK and some don't.
You're correct about the registered keeper - this doesn't prove title to the vehicle. With hire purchase / PCP / Finance Lease, the end user or business is the registered keeper of the vehicle and with contract hire, it's the leasing company. However - with a finance lease or contract hire (operating lease) - the lessee can not become the eventual owner of the vehicle as part of the lease agreement.
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