private school fees

[okgo]

No.

Two grown up salaries is 6 figure HHI to most folks I would guess (unless OP is not anywhere near SE) 70k or so isn't wildly more than two people on the national average, and indeed it would be quite a grim proposition financially to attempt it without grants/family help I would imagine. Of course having cleared the mortgage does help a lot in that regard, as most have not done that.

I have many many examples of people its worked very well for, and just as many that its been a complete waste of time for, most of the difference was likely in the parenting.

[TwigtheWonderkid]

EddieSteadyGo said:

TwigtheWonderkid said:

Zoon said:

TwigtheWonderkid said:

I think there's far more to education than making money when you finish with it.

My concern would be how rounded an individual you become going to private school. I've met plenty of privately educated chinless wonders who are very clever but conversely a bit daft. Jacob Rees Mogg springs to mind.

I know a few like that. Very clever, but with zero common sense.

Yes, and also just not very "streetwise" for want of a better word.

The characteristics you are describing are nothing to do with private or state school education. Much more to do with individual parents and what they value. Not all education after all is completed in the classroom.

But much of it is. It's a combination. I don't have any statistical evidence, so freely admit that my opinions are based on my own experiences, and that doesn't equate to hard data. I'm a big fan of evidence, and I don't really have any.

But in my own life, I've seen many examples of private school producing very well educated, perfectly decent, buffoons. Decent chaps that are good fun to be around, but that I wouldn't personally employ to feed my cat whilst I was away!

[RizzoTheRat]

TwigtheWonderkid said:

But in my own life, I've seen many examples of private school producing very well educated, perfectly decent, buffoons. Decent chaps that are good fun to be around, but that I wouldn't personally employ to feed my cat whilst I was away!

I used to be responsible for feeding the pigs once a week while at a private school. Didn't have any cats though

[Patch1875]

drainbrain said:

Patch1875 said:

drainbrain said:

Patch1875 said:

Our daughter has just finished her 1st year at private school going in at P6.

We live in Edinburgh and the fees are not to bad working out around 10k pa probably around 11k with the extras.

She's a fairly bright confident wee thing but has come on leaps and bounds in her 1st year academically, the school is also big on sports and the arts which she is really loving.

St George's?

Stewart's Melville.

Hmm. Merger of the old Daniel Stewarts and Melville College, no?

I'm an OL myself. Did you consider there? Thought about it for my kid. Didn't bother in the end.

There is a family connection(wife's side) with ESMS so it was the no1 choice, we considered St George's and Loretto bit we just felt happier with ESMS. Loretto was very expensive so would have meant staying in East Lothian when we were looking to move back into Edinburgh. personally I liked the conversations with the head he never really spoke about the education but more about the values of the school and helping the kids find their own way.

[EddieSteadyGo]

TwigtheWonderkid said:

But in my own life, I've seen many examples of private school producing very well educated, perfectly decent, buffoons. Decent chaps that are good fun to be around, but that I wouldn't personally employ to feed my cat whilst I was away!

Maybe you are seeing the output of more private school children which is skewing your opinion?

I would be surprised if you were looking at the average state school "young adult" and thinking much different.

[TwigtheWonderkid]

EddieSteadyGo said:

TwigtheWonderkid said:

But in my own life, I've seen many examples of private school producing very well educated, perfectly decent, buffoons. Decent chaps that are good fun to be around, but that I wouldn't personally employ to feed my cat whilst I was away!

Maybe you are seeing the output of more private school children which is skewing your opinion?

I would be surprised if you were looking at the average state school "young adult" and thinking much different.

I'm more talking about adults who were privately educated. Often they are of a type. Difficult to explain without stereotyping, but if you've seen the film Notting Hill, Hugh Bonneville's character Bernie hits the nail right on the head.

[psi310398]

TwigtheWonderkid said:

Jacob Rees Mogg springs to mind.

JRM may seem odd but he has made a mint by his own efforts (as well as marrying well...)

I'd look under the surface a bit.

P

[EddieSteadyGo]

TwigtheWonderkid said:

I'm more talking about adults who were privately educated. Often they are of a type. Difficult to explain without stereotyping, but if you've seen the film Notting Hill, Hugh Bonneville's character Bernie hits the nail right on the head.

Ah I see. I think I know the "type" you mean. Often not very knowledgeable and not willing or able to get to grips with the detail. Just want to float above it all and not add much value.

Yes, I've met a few of those in my time.

[TwigtheWonderkid]

EddieSteadyGo said:

TwigtheWonderkid said:

I'm more talking about adults who were privately educated. Often they are of a type. Difficult to explain without stereotyping, but if you've seen the film Notting Hill, Hugh Bonneville's character Bernie hits the nail right on the head.

Ah I see. I think I know the "type" you mean. Often not very knowledgeable and not willing or able to get to grips with the detail. Just want to float above it all and not add much value.

Yes, I've met a few of those in my time.

Their redeeming feature is often their self deprecation. In Notting Hill, Bernie is "something in The City" His opening line in the film, as he arrives at the dinner party, is something like "Sorry I'm so late, bksed up at work again, millions down the drain I fear."

[psi310398]

normal bloke said:

Which brings us onto another quandry...is it being unfair on the one that we keep at the local state school?
Well, we asked him and he (the elder, clever one - but with no interesting personality) said he'd rather stay put. 'Can't imagine that forcing him to move would do any good, especially as GCSEs are in sight withing 2 years.

So...if we do anything, it will be probably only for the younger lunatic that will either end up at a kart track or on the front page of the Financial Times.

Or do we reverse that plan around 180deg?

Edited by normal bloke on Thursday 13th July 11:29

normal bloke,

A few thoughts

Yes, it is important to ensure that both are "volunteers" in their situations, on the basis that a volunteer is worth ten pressed men etc - my son actively wanted to board, for example. I would never have forced him to.

But you, as adults, are still left with the tricky judgement of how your sons will feel ten or twenty years from now as their lives unfold. Will the elder, if not then doing as well as the younger, feel that you might have pushed him harder to go privately etc etc? You have the advantage of knowing them and their personalities/characters and we on PH do not, so don't let us pontificate! However, I know many adults harbouring resentment towards parents and siblings which defy rational explanation.

Re monetary investment, my parents bent over backwards to treat their children equally. If one got help for a flat or a car, the others knew that it would be taken into account later. When my parents got older, they gave each of us a lump sum adjusted for significant earlier contributions. You might think about that for your elder son, once the financial pressure of school fees has receded - help buying a flat, setting up a business.

Peter

[Zigster]

In my extended family, one set of parents sent their eldest son to a smart private school, then had two daughters and they couldn't afford to send all three through private so the girls were State educated.

The boy talks with a comically posh accent and first impressions are a bit Jacob Rees-Mogg, but to be fair is a lovely young man who is now a successful surgeon. The girls have entirely different "estuary" accents and have more mixed careers, but again to be fair are both lovely young women. You would never guess they were siblings.

My wife and I have always said it is either private for all our children or State for all. We couldn't justify treating them differently. But for this other family, it seems to have worked out just fine.

[drainbrain]

Patch1875 said:

There is a family connection(wife's side) with ESMS so it was the no1 choice, we considered St George's and Loretto bit we just felt happier with ESMS. Loretto was very expensive so would have meant staying in East Lothian when we were looking to move back into Edinburgh. personally I liked the conversations with the head he never really spoke about the education but more about the values of the school and helping the kids find their own way.

You won't go wrong with SM. Good choice. The head I spoke to at L back in the 80's was a Merchistonian acquaintance from my own schooldays. Even then (80's) they had begun selling the idea as 'different from the old days' when things were a bit too brutal and abusive for most 'modern' parents to trust their kids with.

These days they aim at producing well rounded, decently educated, capable and confident 'good citizens'. What every parent with a brain and a heart wants their kid to turn out to be.

Edited by drainbrain on Thursday 13th July 18:42

[James_B]

ClaphamGT3 said:

At my shop, ability is table stakes; polish is one of the things that differentiates between the able

I suppose if you're working in a shop though there's not much ability needed, so most people have enough and you may as well pick someone who you think the customers will take to.

[mikees]

James_B said:

ClaphamGT3 said:

At my shop, ability is table stakes; polish is one of the things that differentiates between the able

I suppose if you're working in a shop though there's not much ability needed, so most people have enough and you may as well pick someone who you think the customers will take to.

Parrot for mr b ( or double parrot for me not seeing the irony)

[Sheepshanks]

James_B said:

I suppose if you're working in a shop though there's not much ability needed, so most people have enough and you may as well pick someone who you think the customers will take to.

I don't think he meant literally a shop.

[ClaphamGT3]

James_B said:

ClaphamGT3 said:

At my shop, ability is table stakes; polish is one of the things that differentiates between the able

I suppose if you're working in a shop though there's not much ability needed, so most people have enough and you may as well pick someone who you think the customers will take to.

[ultraweasel]

hmm,

I don't have an issue with which school / University people go to.

However, in my previous life as a mechanical design engineer for one of the 'big three' automotive manufacturers, I had the job of mentoring graduates on their rotation on the graduate development scheme.

There was a definite attitude difference between the graduates from 'state' schools / universities and those from public schools / Red Brick Universities.

It wasn't always a good difference.

It was so obvious that the graduates from public schools had such self belief that they were very difficult to manage - they couldn't handle the fact that they didn't actually know what the hell they were talking about:

'But I've got a first in engineering! I know what I'm talking about!' - When dealing with engineers that had been doing their jobs for more years than the graduate had been alive.

They also used that approach when dealing with our suppliers. They caused more problems than they solved. Arrogance comes to mind.

However, the graduates from so called 'lesser' schools and Universities were more open to learning and dealt with suppliers with respect. And probably learnt more about engineering.

Just my observations from the sharp end - an expensive education does not mean automatic success in the workplace.

Regards,

Andy

[EddieSteadyGo]

ultraweasel said:

hmm,

I don't have an issue with which school / University people go to.

However, in my previous life as a mechanical design engineer for one of the 'big three' automotive manufacturers, I had the job of mentoring graduates on their rotation on the graduate development scheme.

There was a definite attitude difference between the graduates from 'state' schools / universities and those from public schools / Red Brick Universities.

It wasn't always a good difference.

It was so obvious that the graduates from public schools had such self belief that they were very difficult to manage - they couldn't handle the fact that they didn't actually know what the hell they were talking about:

'But I've got a first in engineering! I know what I'm talking about!' - When dealing with engineers that had been doing their jobs for more years than the graduate had been alive.

They also used that approach when dealing with our suppliers. They caused more problems than they solved. Arrogance comes to mind.

However, the graduates from so called 'lesser' schools and Universities were more open to learning and dealt with suppliers with respect. And probably learnt more about engineering.

Just my observations from the sharp end - an expensive education does not mean automatic success in the workplace.

Regards,

Andy

I have to agree with you. And I say that as someone with did manage to get a a 1st class degree in mech eng (albeit a long time ago).

In reality there is a gulf in difference between being good at maths etc in order to get a good degree and having a "feel" for what will work and what won't work in practise, before you even get close to drawing it on CAD.

[ultraweasel]

Hi Eddy,

I wasn't having a go at anyone with a First Class Degree!

I know several engineers with Firsts who are brilliant mechanical engineers.

Cheers,

Andy.

[EddieSteadyGo]

ultraweasel said:

Hi Eddy,

I wasn't having a go at anyone with a First Class Degree!

I know several engineers with Firsts who are brilliant mechanical engineers.

Cheers,

Andy.

Just for the record, I was a terrible engineer, and I knew it. I didn't have the right "feel" to make good decisions on what would likely work in practise. There was no way I could have made a proper career out of it.