private school fees
Discussion
Hyena said:
No school however is expensive is going to get a right dimmo 3 A*s. He might however get Bs and Cs as opposed to Es at a Comp.
Don't they get kicked out if they "fail to benefit from the education provided"? Happened to the son of friends of ours. He was also a high standard cricketer but that didn't help, although it did for his uni acceptance.Sheepshanks said:
Don't they get kicked out if they "fail to benefit from the education provided"? Happened to the son of friends of ours. He was also a high standard cricketer but that didn't help, although it did for his uni acceptance.
Yes, it does in some schools where league tables matter. Many (e.g. Eton and Harrow) don't take part in the rankings because they don't need to. But it is more often used as a means of parting company with boys who have fallen foul of the school in lots of low level ways, none of which in itself is enough to expel them. Generally it happens at 5th/6th form changeover, where there is a supply of new pupils whose parents can stump up for two years' worth of fees and who are racing certs for decent grades or rejoice in a name such as Vunipola...Sheepshanks said:
Zigster said:
....and the fees are £20k-£25k pa each at the senior school
Is that boarding? Perhaps I'm out of touch but it seems very high otherwise.I just checked and to the nearest £500:
Senior school day/boarding £22,500 / £32,000
Sixth form £23,500 / £33,500
Hyena said:
Sheepshanks said:
Don't they get kicked out if they "fail to benefit from the education provided"? Happened to the son of friends of ours. He was also a high standard cricketer but that didn't help, although it did for his uni acceptance.
Not if the cash is important enough.All the private schools near me have waiting lists so there are plenty of parents willing to stump up the cash for their precious to take a place which comes available.
I've wondered this myself sometimes... but then we fork out 10k a year in nursery fees as it is at the moment.
I live near a relatively well known public school and often see children in uniform in the local supermarket (Waitrose, of course), including one Mum with three children. That's 100k a year, after tax, to send them to school. A lot of money in anyone's book, but I always remember wealth is no indication of income.
I live near a relatively well known public school and often see children in uniform in the local supermarket (Waitrose, of course), including one Mum with three children. That's 100k a year, after tax, to send them to school. A lot of money in anyone's book, but I always remember wealth is no indication of income.
I've skim read most of this thread. I own a relatively small taxi company - 10 cars. My son goes to Wellington School (in Somerset, not Wellington College!!) and has done since year 2. He's just finished year 8. He was awarded a 20% scholarship when he took the senior school entrance exam at the end of year 6.
I'm by no means wealthy, have no help from parents/rich aunts and I'll be honest the £1500 a month (without any 'extras' such as uniform, school trips, school dinners) is hard to find some months, and that's with the discount. But....he's a bright kid and is getting 'A' grades in most subjects. He's in a class of 18 and gets a very good schooling. I think I'm getting value for money. I think everyone wants the best they can afford for their children and luckily (for him) he's an only child. I simply couldn't afford to do it for two. As it is, I'm working a minimum of 60 hours a week and even at weekends end up doing something work related for a couple of hours each day. A lot of his contempories have their fees paid by relatives of the parents.
It's hard, but if he was at the local comp, he'd still be doing well, just not as well. This (along with making sure he's not a stuck up little a
hole) will stand him in good stead for when he's older. It may even be the difference between a 'good' university and Oxbridge.
I'm by no means wealthy, have no help from parents/rich aunts and I'll be honest the £1500 a month (without any 'extras' such as uniform, school trips, school dinners) is hard to find some months, and that's with the discount. But....he's a bright kid and is getting 'A' grades in most subjects. He's in a class of 18 and gets a very good schooling. I think I'm getting value for money. I think everyone wants the best they can afford for their children and luckily (for him) he's an only child. I simply couldn't afford to do it for two. As it is, I'm working a minimum of 60 hours a week and even at weekends end up doing something work related for a couple of hours each day. A lot of his contempories have their fees paid by relatives of the parents.
It's hard, but if he was at the local comp, he'd still be doing well, just not as well. This (along with making sure he's not a stuck up little a
hole) will stand him in good stead for when he's older. It may even be the difference between a 'good' university and Oxbridge.psi310398 said:
TheLuke said:
I suppose you there is an argument for sending them to a paying school as quite clearly it works but dont you also want your children to work for what they have.
Sorry but this is a ludicrous statement. My son went to one of the "top" public schools and what he mainly got out of it was a work ethic which would put most of us to shame, a willingness to take responsibility for himself and his actions, a very healthy disregard for authority and excellent manners. He is as far from a snowflake as it possible to be. This is true of most of his friends and many others from several such schools whom I know.
The school was massively intolerant of idleness and strong on pointing out how privileged these boys were and what their responsibilities towards society were. It didn't mind failure so long as the boys tried, and tried hard.
Do not get me wrong - I'm sure there are schools in the state sector that do all this but to suggest that the ethos in the private sector is one where entitled teenagers sit around having grapes dropped into their mouths is simply wrong.
As for the question of needing to pay for them to do well and really deserving to do well, you are assuming that parents need to pay. They generally don't need to but, certainly in my case, want to keep their children from a teaching culture infected with PC drivel, where mediocrity is the norm and everybody wins prizes. Again, it might be different outside London, but I wouldn't put my worst enemy's dog in most of the schools round here
I think the point is that, as in other sectors, where there is a choice, people who can afford not to avail themselves of what the State provides tend not to use public services.
My personal opinion is that a private school can be beneficial grades-wise for those on the margin due to the increased attention each child can get, sports-wise through the better facilities on offer, and social-wise for mixing with lots of other people from successful, hard-working (generally) families. They are generally friendly people, too, in my experience, whereas state schools you are much more likely to find a higher number of people who aren't as socially capable.
On the other hand, I would argue that if one is bright enough and hard-working enough then they will succeed in whatever environment they are put in (state or private). Private schoolers can be entitled (moreso than state schoolers in my experience) and often come out of university with really awful graduate jobs because they think everything will be handed to them on a plate (not a problem, because Bank of Mum & Dad has been paying £££ for education for last 15 years, so quick top-up of the bank account is no problem).
The worst thing about private schoolers, which I find cringeworthy and will forevermore, is their assertion that they are in a special club - a club which they have done nothing to be join, but are seemingly obsessed with - especially true of those at public schools.
They are also gripped (along with their parents) with a strange affliction which means they have to ask everybody they meet where they went to school - and they don't mean the geographical location!
Overall it's a great debate and I see value on both sides (though it may not seem it from my post there). I was a comprehensive state schooler (my school has GCSE A*-C rate of less than 50%), my girlfriend was a 'top' private schooler, and most of my close friends today also went to private/public school (which is strange - but maybe because of where I went to university).
I think state school is a great proving ground if you've got the smarts and ethic to work hard, but if you need some more 'direction' (as many kids do) then private school would be advantageous (and will certainly not put the child at a disadvantage).
ETA: I should also add for context that my younger sister went to private school, whereas myself and my older sister went to state. She is very smart, articulate, a real go-getter and got into a fantastic university. But whether or not that is just her, or because of the school, I don't know!
Edited by 22s on Wednesday 12th July 18:34
22s said:
Perhaps your son's school was an exception - or you're trying to justify spending so much money on things that your son could have got without going to his school (manners, taking responsibility for oneself, work ethic)?
22s,Edited by 22s on Wednesday 12th July 18:34
I don't disagree with almost everything you say but, no, I'm not trying to justify anything - I don't have to. I was actually challenging your original assertion re expecting things to be laid on.
I have seen enough schools (around here) shot to sh*t with indiscipline to know that the chances of my son, or anybody else's for that matter, being able to emerge with a decent education and/or without being, in the parlance, known to the police, would be very limited.
I'm emphatically not saying that all state schools are cr*p or that all public schools are havens of high achievement and social conscience, or their product a universal boon for GB Plc...Lord knows, the system's produced enough plonkers.
BTW, a condition of my son's allowance while at university is that it is match-funded to his own earnings, which are currently earned working a bar or being a pot boy in a pub. I expect him to know what real (as opposed to academic) work is like. No workee, no money from his father. And I'm by no means the toughest of the parents in his social acquaintance.
Peter
psi310398 said:
TheLuke said:
I suppose you there is an argument for sending them to a paying school as quite clearly it works but dont you also want your children to work for what they have.
Sorry but this is a ludicrous statement. My son went to one of the "top" public schools and what he mainly got out of it was a work ethic which would put most of us to shame, a willingness to take responsibility for himself and his actions, a very healthy disregard for authority and excellent manners. He is as far from a snowflake as it possible to be. This is true of most of his friends and many others from several such schools whom I know.
The school was massively intolerant of idleness and strong on pointing out how privileged these boys were and what their responsibilities towards society were. It didn't mind failure so long as the boys tried, and tried hard.
Exactly the same as my children's school.
22s said:
On the other hand, I would argue that if one is bright enough and hard-working enough then they will succeed in whatever environment they are put in (state or private).
There was a bit of a rumpus when a state secondary school in a nice area near us got an Ofsted report that said the kids were achieving despite the teachers!22s said:
She is very smart, articulate, a real go-getter and got into a fantastic university. But whether or not that is just her, or because of the school, I don't know!
It's probably impossible to accurately test, but good friends of our have two daughters, one who, by choice, went to the well regarded local state school (with our daughters) and the other to a (locally) very popular private school. They felt that the private school taught to a whole different level to the state school hence the kids do so much better in exams.
normal bloke said:
Fellas,
Just got in from work and could not believe I have generated 4 pages of responses. The comments have ALL been really helpful. Keep them coming until you get really bored, or before then if you like.
I think I'll make the sacrifices necessary but it won't be easy
Many thanks
Seems like something that's really not going to be fun at all on a salary 'closer to 50 than 100'Just got in from work and could not believe I have generated 4 pages of responses. The comments have ALL been really helpful. Keep them coming until you get really bored, or before then if you like.
I think I'll make the sacrifices necessary but it won't be easy
Many thanks
Is it really worth the stress and huge financial burden?
22s said:
My personal opinion is that a private school can be beneficial grades-wise for those on the margin due to the increased attention each child can get
This. You could arguably deliver the same attention yourself, but it requires effort at the end of a hard day's work & academic parents.normal bloke said:
p1stonhead said:
I would imagine he means 'professional' type salary so maybe £50-100k?
I cant imagine many people on under £150k household income would consider private school? Perhaps im way off though.
Spot on. A lot nearer 50 than 100 though I cant imagine many people on under £150k household income would consider private school? Perhaps im way off though.
Our daughter has just finished her 1st year at private school going in at P6.
We live in Edinburgh and the fees are not to bad working out around 10k pa probably around 11k with the extras.
She's a fairly bright confident wee thing but has come on leaps and bounds in her 1st year academically, the school is also big on sports and the arts which she is really loving.
We live in Edinburgh and the fees are not to bad working out around 10k pa probably around 11k with the extras.
She's a fairly bright confident wee thing but has come on leaps and bounds in her 1st year academically, the school is also big on sports and the arts which she is really loving.
extraT said:
Op, just a thought... have you looked into a Jesuit school? Growing up, I went to Wimbledon College, which at the time was run by one Father Holman (who went on to become the head Jesuit in the U.K...); my education was fantastic and looking back now, I'm sure rivaled the local toff schools. Yes perhaps Roman Catholicism isn't your particular flavor of religion, but growing up there were kids from all different backgrounds. Just giving you some food for thought....
Given what's happened to many children in the "care" of catholic institutions, I'm surprised catholics want to send their kids to a catholic school, let alone anyone else. Patch1875 said:
Our daughter has just finished her 1st year at private school going in at P6.
We live in Edinburgh and the fees are not to bad working out around 10k pa probably around 11k with the extras.
She's a fairly bright confident wee thing but has come on leaps and bounds in her 1st year academically, the school is also big on sports and the arts which she is really loving.
St George's?We live in Edinburgh and the fees are not to bad working out around 10k pa probably around 11k with the extras.
She's a fairly bright confident wee thing but has come on leaps and bounds in her 1st year academically, the school is also big on sports and the arts which she is really loving.
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