private school fees
Discussion
OP - I know exactly what you mean but regret I am going to make it even worse for you.
My youngest is about to go into his last year at a well-known school and I have no idea how we have managed it. I remember doing a budget in 2000 and what we will pay next year is NOWHERE CLOSE to the figures I put in to the budget. Our time has coincided with annual increases way over the rate of inflation as the schools try to get a grip on their pension funds and there is this ongoing ludicrous battle to put the best facilities in front of prospective parents. My so called investments were trashed by the 2008 crash too.
Bluntly the money was largely wasted on one of them but the other two have benefited greatly and all three loved it.
I would say one third of parents could pay double and not notice it. Everyone else struggles although I admit the word struggle is relative.
Go for a bursary. Save as much as you can starting tomorrow. It is worth it and I would do it again as regrettably there's no comparison between most private schools and most state schools.
L.F. (state educated)
My youngest is about to go into his last year at a well-known school and I have no idea how we have managed it. I remember doing a budget in 2000 and what we will pay next year is NOWHERE CLOSE to the figures I put in to the budget. Our time has coincided with annual increases way over the rate of inflation as the schools try to get a grip on their pension funds and there is this ongoing ludicrous battle to put the best facilities in front of prospective parents. My so called investments were trashed by the 2008 crash too.
Bluntly the money was largely wasted on one of them but the other two have benefited greatly and all three loved it.
I would say one third of parents could pay double and not notice it. Everyone else struggles although I admit the word struggle is relative.
Go for a bursary. Save as much as you can starting tomorrow. It is worth it and I would do it again as regrettably there's no comparison between most private schools and most state schools.
L.F. (state educated)
stuartmmcfc said:
Without turning this thread into a private vs state education debate as both have their pros and cons, it has to be said that,in my experience, privately educated pupils do significantly outperform state pupils at any interview stage.
It's not beccesarily in qualifications but they come across as a lot more confident. They'll look you in the eye, have a proper conversation and have a lot more experience of life in general.
Ofcourse this is a generalisation and may be due to other factors outside education.
Private schools aslo tend to be much better equipped with more permanent and motivated staff than a lot of state schools who suffer constant government funding issues.
Well yes, but any decent interviewer will be aware of this, and correct for it. Some interviewers of course don't get what matters here, and go for polish over ability, but generally not in the better companies.It's not beccesarily in qualifications but they come across as a lot more confident. They'll look you in the eye, have a proper conversation and have a lot more experience of life in general.
Ofcourse this is a generalisation and may be due to other factors outside education.
Private schools aslo tend to be much better equipped with more permanent and motivated staff than a lot of state schools who suffer constant government funding issues.
Surely from a financial view it makes no sense whatsoever unless you are you are so rich it doesn't matter. If you invested 15k a year for them in the stock market up to the age of 18 they would be well on their way to financial independence.
Is it really worth struggling to pay the fees with no guarantee of any return at the end of it when you could invest the money and give them a very good start in life?
Lets say you you invest 15k a year for 12 years at a compounded at 7% you would be looking at a pot of over 300k which could then be invested giving you an income of say 18k a year.
Is teaching a good work ethic etc really that important? He would probably be a lot happier with a passive income of 18k a year and then earning the same again working at the local go-karting track than doing a stressful job paying double.
Is it really worth struggling to pay the fees with no guarantee of any return at the end of it when you could invest the money and give them a very good start in life?
Lets say you you invest 15k a year for 12 years at a compounded at 7% you would be looking at a pot of over 300k which could then be invested giving you an income of say 18k a year.
Is teaching a good work ethic etc really that important? He would probably be a lot happier with a passive income of 18k a year and then earning the same again working at the local go-karting track than doing a stressful job paying double.
MCLARENSLR said:
Surely from a financial view it makes no sense whatsoever unless you are you are so rich it doesn't matter. If you invested 15k a year for them in the stock market up to the age of 18 they would be well on their way to financial independence.
Is it really worth struggling to pay the fees with no guarantee of any return at the end of it when you could invest the money and give them a very good start in life?
Lets say you you invest 15k a year for 12 years at a compounded at 7% you would be looking at a pot of over 300k which could then be invested giving you an income of say 18k a year.
Is teaching a good work ethic etc really that important? He would probably be a lot happier with a passive income of 18k a year and then earning the same again working at the local go-karting track than doing a stressful job paying double.
And what good does giving your offspring 18k a year in passive income do for them, or society? If you'd said - give them £300k to start a business, or invest in real estate (could get 3 or 4 decent HMOs netting 12k per year each for 300k), or literally anything other than 18k passive income so they can get a crap job at the local karting track I might have seen your logic! Is it really worth struggling to pay the fees with no guarantee of any return at the end of it when you could invest the money and give them a very good start in life?
Lets say you you invest 15k a year for 12 years at a compounded at 7% you would be looking at a pot of over 300k which could then be invested giving you an income of say 18k a year.
Is teaching a good work ethic etc really that important? He would probably be a lot happier with a passive income of 18k a year and then earning the same again working at the local go-karting track than doing a stressful job paying double.
There is more to life and development than just getting a (low) passive income, and £18k per year (whilst not to be sniffed at) represents probably a fraction of the opportunities you get from the network you build at a private school (which private schoolers will get value from IF, and only if, they have the "chutzpah" to seize those opportunities).
I guess the question here is: assuming you can afford it, is there more value in giving your child a lump sum of cash or giving them a private education? And the answer is: it depends on the child, BUT I would venture that most would benefit more from an independent school education than from being giving a lump of cash from mum and dad like a pseudo-Trustifarian and told to crack on!
psi310398 said:
22s,
I don't disagree with almost everything you say but, no, I'm not trying to justify anything - I don't have to. I was actually challenging your original assertion re expecting things to be laid on.
I have seen enough schools (around here) shot to sh*t with indiscipline to know that the chances of my son, or anybody else's for that matter, being able to emerge with a decent education and/or without being, in the parlance, known to the police, would be very limited.
I'm emphatically not saying that all state schools are cr*p or that all public schools are havens of high achievement and social conscience, or their product a universal boon for GB Plc...Lord knows, the system's produced enough plonkers.
BTW, a condition of my son's allowance while at university is that it is match-funded to his own earnings, which are currently earned working a bar or being a pot boy in a pub. I expect him to know what real (as opposed to academic) work is like. No workee, no money from his father. And I'm by no means the toughest of the parents in his social acquaintance.
Peter
Hello Peter - Thanks for the measured response. When I talked about "you" justifying the expenditure it was more of a general statement than you in particular, so no offence intended.I don't disagree with almost everything you say but, no, I'm not trying to justify anything - I don't have to. I was actually challenging your original assertion re expecting things to be laid on.
I have seen enough schools (around here) shot to sh*t with indiscipline to know that the chances of my son, or anybody else's for that matter, being able to emerge with a decent education and/or without being, in the parlance, known to the police, would be very limited.
I'm emphatically not saying that all state schools are cr*p or that all public schools are havens of high achievement and social conscience, or their product a universal boon for GB Plc...Lord knows, the system's produced enough plonkers.
BTW, a condition of my son's allowance while at university is that it is match-funded to his own earnings, which are currently earned working a bar or being a pot boy in a pub. I expect him to know what real (as opposed to academic) work is like. No workee, no money from his father. And I'm by no means the toughest of the parents in his social acquaintance.
Peter
What you have talked about here is another really interesting point, which I think is relevant to the OP. That is to say - you cannot expect a child to fail or succeed based solely upon the school they go to. A lot of responsibility falls on the parents.
Mercifully I don't have any children yet, but teaching the principles of hard work, being nice, and respecting themselves and others will, I think, be key tenets in my parenting. I believe match-funding is a great way to both teach the value of working hard and give your child independence, whilst still being enabling them to enjoy their lives a little more than perhaps I did.
Right, I have digressed enough in this thread neither having been to private school or having any children, so I will continue to watch the discussion with interest, but will (try to) keep my mouth shut!
MCLARENSLR said:
Lets say you you invest 15k a year for 12 years at a compounded at 7% you would be looking at a pot of over 300k which could then be invested giving you an income of say 18k a year.
If you could advise how to that with a large degree of certainty then I'd be grateful!MCLARENSLR said:
Surely from a financial view it makes no sense whatsoever unless you are you are so rich it doesn't matter. If you invested 15k a year for them in the stock market up to the age of 18 they would be well on their way to financial independence.
Is it really worth struggling to pay the fees with no guarantee of any return at the end of it when you could invest the money and give them a very good start in life?
Lets say you you invest 15k a year for 12 years at a compounded at 7% you would be looking at a pot of over 300k which could then be invested giving you an income of say 18k a year.
Is teaching a good work ethic etc really that important? He would probably be a lot happier with a passive income of 18k a year and then earning the same again working at the local go-karting track than doing a stressful job paying double.
I think there's far more to education than making money when you finish with it. Is it really worth struggling to pay the fees with no guarantee of any return at the end of it when you could invest the money and give them a very good start in life?
Lets say you you invest 15k a year for 12 years at a compounded at 7% you would be looking at a pot of over 300k which could then be invested giving you an income of say 18k a year.
Is teaching a good work ethic etc really that important? He would probably be a lot happier with a passive income of 18k a year and then earning the same again working at the local go-karting track than doing a stressful job paying double.
My concern would be how rounded an individual you become going to private school. I've met plenty of privately educated chinless wonders who are very clever but conversely a bit daft. Jacob Rees Mogg springs to mind.
Hyena said:
I think that's a bit unfair. While you have obviously worked hard to get there, I don't think anyone is suggesting that kids from public school don't work hard. They still have to get the grades. No school however is expensive is going to get a right dimmo 3 A*s. He might however get Bs and Cs as opposed to Es at a Comp.
Quite. The benefit of a good school (of any type) is that it makes it easier for the pupil to work hard and effectively. Smaller class sizes, more teacher attention, higher expectations (from parents, teachers, and pupils), fewer distractions from disruptive pupils.Clearly pupils can also do well at very poor schools, but that requires a great deal of will-power, imagination and determination. It's these latter attributes that are less important for a pupil at a good school.
Hyena said:
Sheepshanks said:
Don't they get kicked out if they "fail to benefit from the education provided"? Happened to the son of friends of ours. He was also a high standard cricketer but that didn't help, although it did for his uni acceptance.
Not if the cash is important enough.drainbrain said:
Patch1875 said:
Our daughter has just finished her 1st year at private school going in at P6.
We live in Edinburgh and the fees are not to bad working out around 10k pa probably around 11k with the extras.
She's a fairly bright confident wee thing but has come on leaps and bounds in her 1st year academically, the school is also big on sports and the arts which she is really loving.
St George's?We live in Edinburgh and the fees are not to bad working out around 10k pa probably around 11k with the extras.
She's a fairly bright confident wee thing but has come on leaps and bounds in her 1st year academically, the school is also big on sports and the arts which she is really loving.
James_B said:
stuartmmcfc said:
Without turning this thread into a private vs state education debate as both have their pros and cons, it has to be said that,in my experience, privately educated pupils do significantly outperform state pupils at any interview stage.
It's not beccesarily in qualifications but they come across as a lot more confident. They'll look you in the eye, have a proper conversation and have a lot more experience of life in general.
Ofcourse this is a generalisation and may be due to other factors outside education.
Private schools aslo tend to be much better equipped with more permanent and motivated staff than a lot of state schools who suffer constant government funding issues.
Well yes, but any decent interviewer will be aware of this, and correct for it. Some interviewers of course don't get what matters here, and go for polish over ability, but generally not in the better companies.It's not beccesarily in qualifications but they come across as a lot more confident. They'll look you in the eye, have a proper conversation and have a lot more experience of life in general.
Ofcourse this is a generalisation and may be due to other factors outside education.
Private schools aslo tend to be much better equipped with more permanent and motivated staff than a lot of state schools who suffer constant government funding issues.
James_B said:
stuartmmcfc said:
Without turning this thread into a private vs state education debate as both have their pros and cons, it has to be said that,in my experience, privately educated pupils do significantly outperform state pupils at any interview stage.
It's not beccesarily in qualifications but they come across as a lot more confident. They'll look you in the eye, have a proper conversation and have a lot more experience of life in general.
Ofcourse this is a generalisation and may be due to other factors outside education.
Private schools aslo tend to be much better equipped with more permanent and motivated staff than a lot of state schools who suffer constant government funding issues.
Well yes, but any decent interviewer will be aware of this, and correct for it. Some interviewers of course don't get what matters here, and go for polish over ability, but generally not in the better companies.It's not beccesarily in qualifications but they come across as a lot more confident. They'll look you in the eye, have a proper conversation and have a lot more experience of life in general.
Ofcourse this is a generalisation and may be due to other factors outside education.
Private schools aslo tend to be much better equipped with more permanent and motivated staff than a lot of state schools who suffer constant government funding issues.
TwigtheWonderkid said:
I think there's far more to education than making money when you finish with it.
My concern would be how rounded an individual you become going to private school. I've met plenty of privately educated chinless wonders who are very clever but conversely a bit daft. Jacob Rees Mogg springs to mind.
I know a few like that. Very clever, but with zero common sense.My concern would be how rounded an individual you become going to private school. I've met plenty of privately educated chinless wonders who are very clever but conversely a bit daft. Jacob Rees Mogg springs to mind.
Patch1875 said:
drainbrain said:
Patch1875 said:
Our daughter has just finished her 1st year at private school going in at P6.
We live in Edinburgh and the fees are not to bad working out around 10k pa probably around 11k with the extras.
She's a fairly bright confident wee thing but has come on leaps and bounds in her 1st year academically, the school is also big on sports and the arts which she is really loving.
St George's?We live in Edinburgh and the fees are not to bad working out around 10k pa probably around 11k with the extras.
She's a fairly bright confident wee thing but has come on leaps and bounds in her 1st year academically, the school is also big on sports and the arts which she is really loving.
I'm an OL myself. Did you consider there? Thought about it for my kid. Didn't bother in the end.
Zoon said:
TwigtheWonderkid said:
I think there's far more to education than making money when you finish with it.
My concern would be how rounded an individual you become going to private school. I've met plenty of privately educated chinless wonders who are very clever but conversely a bit daft. Jacob Rees Mogg springs to mind.
I know a few like that. Very clever, but with zero common sense.My concern would be how rounded an individual you become going to private school. I've met plenty of privately educated chinless wonders who are very clever but conversely a bit daft. Jacob Rees Mogg springs to mind.
TwigtheWonderkid said:
Zoon said:
TwigtheWonderkid said:
I think there's far more to education than making money when you finish with it.
My concern would be how rounded an individual you become going to private school. I've met plenty of privately educated chinless wonders who are very clever but conversely a bit daft. Jacob Rees Mogg springs to mind.
I know a few like that. Very clever, but with zero common sense.My concern would be how rounded an individual you become going to private school. I've met plenty of privately educated chinless wonders who are very clever but conversely a bit daft. Jacob Rees Mogg springs to mind.
MCLARENSLR said:
Surely from a financial view it makes no sense whatsoever unless you are you are so rich it doesn't matter. If you invested 15k a year for them in the stock market up to the age of 18 they would be well on their way to financial independence.
Is it really worth struggling to pay the fees with no guarantee of any return at the end of it when you could invest the money and give them a very good start in life?
Lets say you you invest 15k a year for 12 years at a compounded at 7% you would be looking at a pot of over 300k which could then be invested giving you an income of say 18k a year.
Is teaching a good work ethic etc really that important? He would probably be a lot happier with a passive income of 18k a year and then earning the same again working at the local go-karting track than doing a stressful job paying double.
I went to state school, no local grammar or I would have tried to apply, a good friend of mine attended a top school in Kent, we are roughly two years apart in age.Is it really worth struggling to pay the fees with no guarantee of any return at the end of it when you could invest the money and give them a very good start in life?
Lets say you you invest 15k a year for 12 years at a compounded at 7% you would be looking at a pot of over 300k which could then be invested giving you an income of say 18k a year.
Is teaching a good work ethic etc really that important? He would probably be a lot happier with a passive income of 18k a year and then earning the same again working at the local go-karting track than doing a stressful job paying double.
The difference in the soft skills, confidence, public speaking, when we first started working together is immeasurable, it has taken me 5 years to mature to the same stage he was at, if I can afford it the children will go to private school or at the very least a grammar school.
Generally when his friends visit, mainly Oxbridge graduates, they all have really interesting jobs all attained through school / university contacts as well as their own achievements, it is not just about the grades but your whole demeanour, that is what, for me, you are buying.
TwigtheWonderkid said:
I think there's far more to education than making money when you finish with it.
I was going to say something similar - if you look at it as purely £X in so needing at least £Y out then I think that's missing the point. I certainly want my kids to get good, fulfilling jobs but if the career that is right for them isn't high-paying then I wouldn't feel I had wasted my money.
TwigtheWonderkid said:
My concern would be how rounded an individual you become going to private school. I've met plenty of privately educated chinless wonders who are very clever but conversely a bit daft. Jacob Rees Mogg springs to mind.
True, but that works both ways. I know lots of State-educated half-wits - having a State-education doesn't make you well rounded (if anything, being well-rounded is despite the State-education not because of it).
More discussion with the wife (£20k/yr, not £50k! 
) last night, and I inputted a lot from what you've all said, and I think that only one of the lads (the younger, mad one) would benefit. Which brings us onto another quandry...is it being unfair on the one that we keep at the local state school?
Well, we asked him and he (the elder, clever one - but with no interesting personality) said he'd rather stay put. 'Can't imagine that forcing him to move would do any good, especially as GCSEs are in sight withing 2 years.
So...if we do anything, it will be probably only for the younger lunatic that will either end up at a kart track or on the front page of the Financial Times.
Or do we reverse that plan around 180deg?
) last night, and I inputted a lot from what you've all said, and I think that only one of the lads (the younger, mad one) would benefit. Which brings us onto another quandry...is it being unfair on the one that we keep at the local state school?Well, we asked him and he (the elder, clever one - but with no interesting personality) said he'd rather stay put. 'Can't imagine that forcing him to move would do any good, especially as GCSEs are in sight withing 2 years.
So...if we do anything, it will be probably only for the younger lunatic that will either end up at a kart track or on the front page of the Financial Times.
Or do we reverse that plan around 180deg?
Edited by normal bloke on Thursday 13th July 11:29
normal bloke said:
More discussion with the wife (£20k/yr, not £50k! ) last night, and I inputted a lot from what you've all said, and I think that only one of the lads (the younger, mad one) would benefit. Which brings us onto another quandry...is it being unfair on the one that we keep at the local state school?
Well, we asked him and he (the elder, clever one - but with no interesting personality) said he'd rather stay put. 'Can't imagine that forcing him to move would do any good, especially as GCSEs are in sight withing 2 years.
So...if we do anything, it will be probably only for the younger lunatic that will either end up at a kart track or on the front page of the Financial Times.
Trying for private school for even one child on say £75-85k a year sounds insane doesnt it? Youll kill yourself financially for it. ) last night, and I inputted a lot from what you've all said, and I think that only one of the lads (the younger, mad one) would benefit. Which brings us onto another quandry...is it being unfair on the one that we keep at the local state school?Well, we asked him and he (the elder, clever one - but with no interesting personality) said he'd rather stay put. 'Can't imagine that forcing him to move would do any good, especially as GCSEs are in sight withing 2 years.
So...if we do anything, it will be probably only for the younger lunatic that will either end up at a kart track or on the front page of the Financial Times.
Is it just me?
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