Crypto Currency Thread
Discussion
wisbech said:
Behemoth said:
Yes, there are plenty of issues but I don't see any that are insurmountable & to me they all seem transient. It's really interesting seeing what's being played out with the 51%s @ BTG. I'm unfamiliar with LCC but there'll be plenty more wherever dev teams are small, pools are already largely bots etc. and nobody keeps an eye out (a key aspect of the worth of validating nodes). All these attacks are good data points.
But I don't have any fears for Bitcoin. It will learn from attacks on lesser chains and harden. Yes, if it tends to zero the game's up. But even pretty close to zero there are plenty of diehards who will simply fight to sweep up cheap coins & back up it goes.
A core part of Nash Equilibrium is that people won't shoot themselves in the foot. The only clear and present danger there is a large state actor determined to destroy an independent money.
I think the driver in Proof of Work is energy, not miners or asics. Every aspect of mining ultimately resolves to the cost of energy spent. That's what Proof of Work is really all about. There's already a worldwide chase for cheap electricity and that'll push on. The really cheap stuff is in sources like hydro which, rivers & mountains being what they are, are geographically quite dispersed (unlike sources for some rare earth elements, eg) so it's difficult to see that centralising extensively. Even geothermal sources are dotted around the globe. I suppose ultimately, if BTC were valuable enough, a well funded group might try running miners off solar panels in orbit. That'd be a centralising force, for sure.
Interesting- thanks. Didn’t realise mining couldn’t be distributed (i.e same miner owning operations in Iceland and British Columbia say and chaining together). Rather an old fashioned architecture, but yes it helps stop centralisationBut I don't have any fears for Bitcoin. It will learn from attacks on lesser chains and harden. Yes, if it tends to zero the game's up. But even pretty close to zero there are plenty of diehards who will simply fight to sweep up cheap coins & back up it goes.
A core part of Nash Equilibrium is that people won't shoot themselves in the foot. The only clear and present danger there is a large state actor determined to destroy an independent money.
I think the driver in Proof of Work is energy, not miners or asics. Every aspect of mining ultimately resolves to the cost of energy spent. That's what Proof of Work is really all about. There's already a worldwide chase for cheap electricity and that'll push on. The really cheap stuff is in sources like hydro which, rivers & mountains being what they are, are geographically quite dispersed (unlike sources for some rare earth elements, eg) so it's difficult to see that centralising extensively. Even geothermal sources are dotted around the globe. I suppose ultimately, if BTC were valuable enough, a well funded group might try running miners off solar panels in orbit. That'd be a centralising force, for sure.
If one or a couple of entities run the majority of the hashing power (which is what we are moving to) then who's to say the Chinese government don't take the company(s) over and do whatever they want with your precious empowering coin? Who's to say the Chinese government don't already have a 'seat on the board'?
Moreover, although the driver of Proof of work is mostly energy, I agree, that doesn't just mean cheaper cost of power. You can also reduce your energy costs in other ways. More efficient chips is one. ASICboost is another. Have a read below.
https://blog.bitmex.com/graphical-illustration-of-...
It basically allows miners (read Bitmain, but some others too) to shortcut the work required to the Proof of Work, thus use less energy (up to 30% less) and make even more profits. All the miners they use which they then sell to customers will then have ASICBoost switched off so we can't take advantage of it.
It also has many other repercussions. One which I alluded to earlier is that Bitmain are trying to undermine BTC in favour of BCH. BTC's move to SegWit meant that ASICBoost will no longer work on BTC. So Bitmain created the BCH fork where they still can. Wonder why Roger Ver with his Bitcoin.com ownership (which he actually uses to promote BCH) is such an outspoken fan of BCH? He's also a big investor and best buddies with Jihan Wu (founder of Bitmain), and to keep the profits rolling they need BCH pumped. Take everything Roger Ver has to say with a pinch of salt including his comment that BTCs high transaction costs is actually killing people in the third world!
Yes, of course PoW asics designed to operate on a specific cryptographic hash function will reduce the energy required but once deployed, the net game is still the cost of the energy. BCH is a good candidate for a 51% attack since the majority of nodes are bot farms. BCH is a BTC copy/paste with a small low quality dev team behind it. More effort is spent on marketing it than coding it. It's fascinating to watch all this play out & seeing new attack vectors & scenarios cooked up is no surprise, but of all tokens I'm quietly confident Bitcoin will remain the most resilient.
Good news or bad news depending if you are buying or selling.
https://www.ft.com/content/b9d2b246-6003-11e8-ad91...
UK watchdog running dozens of probes into cryptocurrency firms
https://www.ft.com/content/b9d2b246-6003-11e8-ad91...
UK watchdog running dozens of probes into cryptocurrency firms
Ouch.
I really don't want to, but I really like it when crypto gets hammered. Probably for two selfish reasons.
1) I never benefited from the obscene % gains seen last year (I don't own any / trade any).
2) Speculation is hard and since I've had the market kick me around a few times, so should everyone else!
I really don't want to, but I really like it when crypto gets hammered. Probably for two selfish reasons.
1) I never benefited from the obscene % gains seen last year (I don't own any / trade any).
2) Speculation is hard and since I've had the market kick me around a few times, so should everyone else!
g4ry13 said:
If you don't plan to buy any and take advantage of the falls in price are you not just exhibiting a classic case of schadenfreude?
Not in their financial misfortune, just in the reality check that trading / speculation isn't just a case of buying / going long and making loads of money. It's very, very hard to remain consistent and as night follows day, different market cycles come around to give people a swift kick to the nuts. Down trends are the Kryptonite to 'hold and hope' (or HODL in cool cypto meme speak) behaviour.
La Liga said:
hallion said:
I find it amusing that people who don't hold any crypto are the first to post when the price goes lower.
Or conversely, those who are holding (and hoping) don't post when it goes lower. Edited by hallion on Sunday 10th June 23:12
hallion said:
La Liga said:
hallion said:
I find it amusing that people who don't hold any crypto are the first to post when the price goes lower.
Or conversely, those who are holding (and hoping) don't post when it goes lower.It's not unexpected. As humans we're built to hate losses, so we aren't going to want to talk about them.
However, it's more important to discuss when positions go against us as how we deal with those events as those are the ones which will make or break our long-term success.
I'll also add I have speculated on crypto movement using leveraged derivatives, so do have some 'skin in the game'.
We seem to be following the bear mkt pattern of 2014/15 pretty closely, albeit a little more rapidly. Wired did a short piece in early stages of that large bear market which still applies imo https://www.wired.com/2015/01/price-bitcoin-doesnt...
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