Crypto Currency Thread

[Condi]

dimots said:

But things are already going wrong. I'm sure you think the world we live in is perfect but it's not. There's huge waste. Over half of all electricity produced is wasted because it cannot be stored. It is possible to design a system that automatically sells excess energy to smart machines or domestic energy hubs networked across the country.

Source please for your fact that half of all power is wasted? I can tell you its not, nowhere near.

We already have technology which stores energy pretty efficiently, pumped hydro is about 85%+ efficient for and can store a lot of energy quite quickly. The 'next generation' storage, such as intelligent battery tech which knows when to charge and when to discharge is already there, albeit in a rather primitive and expensive form, but even a large battery is tiny compared with just 1 pumped hydro unit.

Sorry, it seems like more solutions looking for problems.

[200Plus Club]

It's great for scented candle sales though..
https://thecryptocandle.com

[98elise]

dimots said:

But things are already going wrong. I'm sure you think the world we live in is perfect but it's not. There's huge waste. Over half of all electricity produced is wasted because it cannot be stored. It is possible to design a system that automatically sells excess energy to smart machines or domestic energy hubs networked across the country. Energy is considered an essential service, so it's not a totally free market, Ofgem could step in if technology becomes available to minimize costs of providing energy. In fact they are actively seeking solutions:

https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/about-us/how-we-engage/in...

One of the huge regulatory issues of creating an automated market would be proving who is paying the bill, and in assigning payments methods. Payments also have to be bundled not streamed. This is also going to be an issue for electric cars of course when wireless charging comes in.

Blockchain has the potential to solve these issues. More reading here:

https://www.technologyreview.com/s/609077/how-bloc...

https://medium.com/capdax-exchange/how-blockchain-...

Can you give a source for the fact that half of all electricity is wasted because it can't be stored?

Current is drawn, so energy used is a product of demand. You don't pump energy in and it falls out of end if it's not used.

Imagine an energy company to be a water pump delivering pressure to your taps. The flow needed is dictated by how many people have a tap on, not the pump. When the demand is low the pump does less work (hence consumes less energy).

If you want to store some or use a smart device to use it at a different time, you are simply shifting the demand. You haven't saved any energy.

Crypto is not going to change physics.

[dimots]

I don't know where to begin with the above statement of 'physics'. If you can't store energy it can't just go round and round the grid forever until it's used without wastage.

Anyway, have a read of this: https://innovateuk.blog.gov.uk/2018/03/06/predicti...

Or this: https://www.vox.com/energy-and-environment/2018/6/...

Or maybe look at this Ofgem project:

https://www.petrashub.org/portfolio-item/the-inter...

As for wastage:

https://www.eef.org.uk/about-eef/media-news-and-in...

I think a lot of you guys are on a different page to me, and I don't take any offence to your comments because what you are saying is very much rooted in the here and now. I am trying to look forward, because I can imagine lots of potential scenarios where bitcoin will become hugely valuable. This is just one I raised to help you think about the potential.Honestly, it doesn't matter to me what you think and you are entitled to your own views, I'm just trying to share some ideas. I hold bitcoin as part of my investment portfolio because I believe it will be a big deal in the future.

[anonymous-user]

dimots said:

Over half of all electricity produced is wasted because it cannot be stored.
......
https://www.eef.org.uk/about-eef/media-news-and-in...

article said:

Inherited from the public system of the 1960s and 70s, less than 10% of UK power stations currently recover waste heat, and this represents a missed opportunity to save £2 billion annually.

The UK could save the equivalent of £23 per household just by upgrading our electricity network's efficiency to match that of Germany's.

Appropriate, long term policy support could cost-effectively reduce business and public sector bills by £570 million, improving competitiveness and investment.

Absolutely zero to do with storage. considering 40% of current electricity supplied is on demand gas plants, you point has zero to do with it.

people on a different page because you are making stuff up to suit your facts again.

[dimots]

But we are now completely off topic anyway. The concept I am trying to communicate is that of a smart home hub that manges electricity purchasing and supply to networked battery powered devices around the home. Alternatively standalone battery powered devices that purchase energy fom a digital market on demand and store it. Why you have decided to try and corral the argument into arguing whether 50% is wasted because it cannot be stored alone, or also because of other waste due to legacy power generation systems not being efficient is just a waste of time really. What do you have to say about the potential for bitcoin to revolutionize the energy market?

https://www.forbes.com/sites/baininsights/2018/02/...

[NRS]

dimots said:

But we are now completely off topic anyway. The concept I am trying to communicate is that of a smart home hub that manges electricity purchasing and supply to networked battery powered devices around the home. Alternatively standalone battery powered devices that purchase energy fom a digital market on demand and store it. Why you have decided to try and corral the argument into arguing whether 50% is wasted because it cannot be stored alone, or also because of other waste due to legacy power generation systems not being efficient is just a waste of time really. What do you have to say about the potential for bitcoin to revolutionize the energy market?

https://www.forbes.com/sites/baininsights/2018/02/...

Why does that need bitcoin/blockchain?

[98elise]

dimots said:

I don't know where to begin with the above statement of 'physics'. If you can't store energy it can't just go round and round the grid forever until it's used without wastage.

Anyway, have a read of this: https://innovateuk.blog.gov.uk/2018/03/06/predicti...

Or this: https://www.vox.com/energy-and-environment/2018/6/...

Or maybe look at this Ofgem project:

https://www.petrashub.org/portfolio-item/the-inter...

As for wastage:

https://www.eef.org.uk/about-eef/media-news-and-in...

I think a lot of you guys are on a different page to me, and I don't take any offence to your comments because what you are saying is very much rooted in the here and now. I am trying to look forward, because I can imagine lots of potential scenarios where bitcoin will become hugely valuable. This is just one I raised to help you think about the potential.Honestly, it doesn't matter to me what you think and you are entitled to your own views, I'm just trying to share some ideas. I hold bitcoin as part of my investment portfolio because I believe it will be a big deal in the future.

None of that explains how you think over half of all electricity is waste, and how crypto will fix that.

Transmission losses exist however you pay for your supply. It's not 50% losses and crypto makes no difference.

Your assertions make no sense from a physics perspective and the articles you've linked to do not back you up.

What do you mean by "electricity", in power or energy terms? Do you think we generate energy and pump it into the grid like an over flowing tank of water? My tap analogy explains it. We generate voltage (pressure), and current is drawn (flow). Power is a product of voltage and current, and energy is power and time.

Unless something is drawing current then there is no energy consumption. It's not an open ended pipe into which we are pissing away energy.

Basic physics theory.

[98elise]

NRS said:

dimots said:

But we are now completely off topic anyway. The concept I am trying to communicate is that of a smart home hub that manges electricity purchasing and supply to networked battery powered devices around the home. Alternatively standalone battery powered devices that purchase energy fom a digital market on demand and store it. Why you have decided to try and corral the argument into arguing whether 50% is wasted because it cannot be stored alone, or also because of other waste due to legacy power generation systems not being efficient is just a waste of time really. What do you have to say about the potential for bitcoin to revolutionize the energy market?

https://www.forbes.com/sites/baininsights/2018/02/...

Why does that need bitcoin/blockchain?

It doesn't. Storing energy from cheap excess capacity, to use at peak demand is not new, and it doesn't need crypto/blockchain to work. Storage heaters do it, as do batteries, and of course pumped hydro electric storage on a bigger scale.

To go back to the energy waste again, it doesn't matter when the energy is stored, the initial energy consumed (and the transmission losses) are broadly similar. Storing the energy will have in fact added extra conversion losses. All you have gained is shifting the demand from realtime at peak, to off peak via an energy store.

[dimots]

98elise said:

Do you think we generate energy and pump it into the grid like an over flowing tank of water?

Yeah pretty much. Because the marketplace is not smart enough to know how much energy is really needed.

Power is produced in excess of need. Consumers pay after they have used power rather than knowing how much they need for heat, light, transport etc and being informed enough to mange their usage. Devices largely remain plugged in to an always on supply and there’s a lot of drain and waste. This is largely a product of the marketplace. If we want to reduce power usage and develop a more sophisticated power generation market then the blockchain can help as exemplified in the many articles I have already linked.

[dimots]

NRS said:

Why does that need bitcoin/blockchain?

Have you read any of Bain and Co’s other studies on blockchain? Stop expecting me to 101 everything.

[98elise]

dimots said:

98elise said:

Do you think we generate energy and pump it into the grid like an over flowing tank of water?

Yeah pretty much. Because the marketplace is not smart enough to know how much energy is really needed.

Power is produced in excess of need. Consumers pay after they have used power rather than knowing how much they need for heat, light, transport etc and being informed enough to mange their usage. Devices largely remain plugged in to an always on supply and there’s a lot of drain and waste. This is largely a product of the marketplace. If we want to reduce power usage and develop a more sophisticated power generation market then the blockchain can help as exemplified in the many articles I have already linked.

A kWh of heating or lighting consumes a kWh of evergy regardless of when they are on, and when they are off they consume nothing.

How you pay does not effect the efficiency. In the case of electric heating it's pretty much 100% efficient already.

You also seem to be confusing power and energy, so I'm not convinced you understand the physics. Power is a rate of consumption of energy. Energy (work) is what you pay for.

[200Plus Club]

dimots said:

Yeah pretty much. Because the marketplace is not smart enough to know how much energy is really needed.

Power is produced in excess of need. Consumers pay after they have used power rather than knowing how much they need for heat, light, transport etc and being informed enough to mange their usage. Devices largely remain plugged in to an always on supply and there’s a lot of drain and waste. This is largely a product of the marketplace. If we want to reduce power usage and develop a more sophisticated power generation market then the blockchain can help as exemplified in the many articles I have already linked.

You've never heard of a BMS system or energy manager then... That's not the case at all in most larger businesses.

[dimots]

You know of a BMS that buys energy ad hoc from a global marketplace at the best rate and at optimal energy production times? What's it called?

It's a waste of my time starting from scratch. You don't seem to get the basic point here - blockchain offers solutions to many many problems that nothing else can. I have simply plucked the energy market to cast some light on the potential of blockchain. I could have chosen various other potential applications. There is no value in you picking holes in my knowledge of power supply and energy because that is by no means my speciality. However, I can show you that many many very clever people are working on this very matter.

Check some of these start-ups and tell me if you think there is potential in the application of bitcoin/blockchain to the energy market based on what you see here?

http://eventhorizon2018.com/data/uploads/2018/04/E...

If anyone comes back with 'But that's bitcoin not blockchain' I'm just going to leave.

[dimots]

98elise said:

A kWh of heating or lighting consumes a kWh of evergy regardless of when they are on, and when they are off they consume nothing.

How you pay does not effect the efficiency. In the case of electric heating it's pretty much 100% efficient already.

You also seem to be confusing power and energy, so I'm not convinced you understand the physics. Power is a rate of consumption of energy. Energy (work) is what you pay for.

Irrelevant to the discussion. But thanks for that.

Energy efficiency is not about how much energy you can burn. It is about avoiding the least efficient generation methods by managing peaks. A possible way to do that would be smart hubs or standalone devices with access to a decentralized energy market and their own batteries to store the energy they purchase. That way in addition to buying from the national grid, they could buy excess tidal, solar, wind energy and store it on a decentralized network of devices. That could include private energy suppliersincluding homeowners and small scale solar/wind famrs. You could even choose to buy locally produced energy...or pay a premium for 'Green' energy, etc...

[James_B]

dimots said:

I don't know where to begin with the above statement of 'physics'. If you can't store energy it can't just go round and round the grid forever until it's used without wastage.


I think a lot of you guys are on a different page to me,

Indeed, I have three physics degrees, and the rubbish that you are posting on the subject is, as Pauli said, so bad as to be “not even wrong.”

Can I assume that you have never studied the subject? You cannot just assert things like this and not be expected to be picked up on them. You think that you have expertise in the subject, but come across, I am afraid, as just not quite getting it.

Now, putting my other hat on, as a banker of a quarter of a century, it feels as though you are as ill-informed on cryptocurrencies and traditional banking.

Again, have you actually worked in finance, are you expert in it, or have you read some stuff on the internet, and just decided that you understand it?

Your awful analogies give the lie to your expertise. If you have a decent argument, or sensible analogies, why not use them?

[James_B]

dimots said:

But we are now completely off topic anyway.

And that response, when you have been found to have been bullstting, and posted a link that you must have known did not back up your bullst, is very, very poor.

Dishonest, most would say.

[dimots]

Cool. Don't worry about it. I am invested in bitcoin and there are exciting developments on the horizon, I'm all good thanks guys.

You can carry on as you were. Don't listen to me. And when a blockchain-based decentralized global energy market opens up just remember where you read it first.

[p_k_n]

dimots said:

Cool. Don't worry about it. I am invested in bitcoin and there are exciting developments on the horizon, I'm all good thanks guys.

You can carry on as you were. Don't listen to me. And when a blockchain-based decentralized global energy market opens up just remember where you read it first.

lol, nice reply

[200Plus Club]

dimots said:

You know of a BMS that buys energy ad hoc from a global marketplace at the best rate and at optimal energy production times? What's it called?

It's a waste of my time starting from scratch. You don't seem to get the basic point here - blockchain offers solutions to many many problems that nothing else can. I have simply plucked the energy market to cast some light on the potential of blockchain. I could have chosen various other potential applications. There is no value in you picking holes in my knowledge of power supply and energy because that is by no means my speciality. However, I can show you that many many very clever people are working on this very matter.

Check some of these start-ups and tell me if you think there is potential in the application of bitcoin/blockchain to the energy market based on what you see here?

http://eventhorizon2018.com/data/uploads/2018/04/E...

If anyone comes back with 'But that's bitcoin not blockchain' I'm just going to leave.

I was going to do a proper reply about BMS , energy and utilities buying for critical services but then couldn't be bothered.

Yes in theory what you talked about is "possible" in energy buying but in practical terms it's not going to happen unfortunately. Not while any of us or our children are alive at least.

It may be applicable and better suited in other ways as a transaction medium but does appear to be a solution looking for problems.