Crypto Currency Thread

[anonymous-user]

AmosMoses said:

I am a believer that cash and traditional money will cease to exist in the coming years, I think society will see money differently and rather than it needing to be back by gold or any other commodity it’ll be backed by the value of the original coins that became unobtainable due to people holding onto them.

There will become a point where the major top 10 or so coins will stay and the rest will die a death, already starting to see this happen.

Of course I could be wrong, probably am. But that’s my feeling and I’ll stick to it.

This is long term.

Short term is people will get bored like they did towards the end of summer, see these coins are cheap and want to get some. This rolls on to Xmas and we see the same rise if not higher, then a crash.

[Awaits standard PH response]

So are you saying that something that 99.99% of people have zero interest in at all will replace traditional money in the coming years? That the government and banks are just going to sit back and let something invented by a mystery figure effectively replace money as we know it?

That my parents who could not care less about crypto and if I explained it to them would think it was a scam will be getting their pensions in Bitcoin?

I bet you that will never happen.

[TooLateForAName]

[quote=AmosMoses]I am a believer that cash and traditional money will cease to exist in the coming years, I think society will see money differently and rather than it needing to be back by gold or any other commodity it’ll be backed by the value of the original coins that became unobtainable due to people holding onto them.
]

But real money isnt backed by gold or any other commodity as it is. Its value lies in the fact that governments accept it.

What intrinsic value do these original coins have? All I see is a pseudo commodity with restricted supply that is designed to have scarcity pushing up value if it ever were to be used in any real sense.

[Condi]

Just came across this....

https://wppenergy.io/

And while obviously some form of scam, as its as crypto currency, power industry mashup thing I thought others might like to see it.

Apparently using one 40ft container you can produce enough hydrogen to power a 1000MW power plant?? And they do a home version which produces power from water!! Amazing that we can bend, break and rewrite the laws of physics. Tbh its a pretty good scam, the website is very well produced.

[200Plus Club]

Condi said:

Just came across this....

https://wppenergy.io/

And while obviously some form of scam, as its as crypto currency, power industry mashup thing I thought others might like to see it.

Apparently using one 40ft container you can produce enough hydrogen to power a 1000MW power plant?? And they do a home version which produces power from water!! Amazing that we can bend, break and rewrite the laws of physics. Tbh its a pretty good scam, the website is very well produced.

I was bored so I wasted 20mins reading their guff. This is one of the better bits...

"Leveraging our pre-existing relationships with Governments, WPP ENERGY is in discussions with federal governments to have the WPP TOKEN adopted by major utility companies in their respective countries to accept the WPP TOKEN as a payment method from their customers"...

Good luck with that.

[200Plus Club]

Forgot to add, I've no doubt that in future hydrogen cells spinning turbines to make power and hot water could well be used regionally to power homes, but the days of mini packaged plant doing so in every home and using internet coins automatically are a long long way off. Governments won't allow a countries power infrastructure to be broken up and taken back by the customer to do as they will locally on a large scale while putting the energy companies and economy into free fall.

[Behemoth]

200Plus Club said:

Governments won't allow a countries power infrastructure to be broken up and taken back by the customer to do as they will locally on a large scale while putting the energy companies and economy into free fall.

I've absolutely no doubt the container token is an utter scam, but it's worth pointing out that governments do let go of power infrastructure. That said, it's probably correct to assume that the French government (in its obscured transnational form as EDF) wouldn't allow the UK's power infrastructure to be broken up This old piece about EDF & the UK power infrastructure is a great (long) read. https://www.lrb.co.uk/v34/n17/james-meek/how-we-ha... .

[anonymous-user]

Crypto having another bad day today?

Crypto seems to be going the way of Beanie Bears, 7 months ago people were going crazy for it, now few people seem to care.

[DonkeyApple]

Joey Deacon said:

Crypto having another bad day today?

Crypto seems to be going the way of Beanie Bears, 7 months ago people were going crazy for it, now few people seem to care.

It’s no different to any playground craze. The craze is over. It’s no really the centre of playground chitchat any more so the flow of new players to the game has dried up. People aren’t begging their mum for a fidget spinner etc. Lots of people still have fidget spinners but they are now in a drawer sitting there pretty much worthless. It’s the same with coins as we transition to the second phase in tech which is where the kids have become bored and moved on but the adults take over and evolve it if it has any real world, commercial value which the concept of crypto currencies almost certainly has.

[Behemoth]

DonkeyApple said:

It’s no different to any playground craze. The craze is over. It’s no really the centre of playground chitchat any more so the flow of new players to the game has dried up. People aren’t begging their mum for a fidget spinner etc. Lots of people still have fidget spinners but they are now in a drawer sitting there pretty much worthless. It’s the same with coins as we transition to the second phase in tech which is where the kids have become bored and moved on but the adults take over and evolve it if it has any real world, commercial value which the concept of crypto currencies almost certainly has.

Very well put. It is indeed a very long cycle.

If you look at the internet protocol stack by analogy, it can take 50 years. TCP/IP was first researched during the 60s. In the early 70s it got to prototype. The US military implemented it by the 80s. The upper internet layer infrastructure we know and use didn't appear until the 90s & even then, it took until the 2010s to get to a can't-do-without-it stable mass usage.

[anonymous-user]

I like that analogy, too.

I'd have thought part of the evolution will involve consistent 'normal' levels of volatility, as opposed to regular 20%+ moves in one day.

[avinalarf]

DonkeyApple said:

It’s no different to any playground craze. The craze is over. It’s no really the centre of playground chitchat any more so the flow of new players to the game has dried up. People aren’t begging their mum for a fidget spinner etc. Lots of people still have fidget spinners but they are now in a drawer sitting there pretty much worthless. It’s the same with coins as we transition to the second phase in tech which is where the kids have become bored and moved on but the adults take over and evolve it if it has any real world, commercial value which the concept of crypto currencies almost certainly has.

I agree Donkey.
No different from any other of the "myths" on which our society is built.

[Behemoth]

Two insightful articles (same author) describing how Bitcoin capital markets could develop & how it might thus progress as a reserve currency by using HTLC (Hashed Time Locked Contracts) in Lightning Network to generate market accepted LIBOR-style rates:

https://medium.com/@timevalueofbtc/the-time-value-...
https://medium.com/@timevalueofbtc/the-bitcoin-ris...

[CryptoSuperDave]

Nice 10% bump from BTC, and ETH,BCC,LTC also bumped up 5%+ - nice volume spikes all round - could well be related to coinbase fund that has just gone live possibly?

https://am.coinbase.com/

Current Composition
Bitcoin 64.16%
Ethereum 25.72%
Bitcoin Cash 7.51%
Litecoin 2.61%
Minimum Investment $250,000

last 2 days has seen more volume than previous 4 days combined. (yesterday was most volume for 5 weeks)

[anonymous-user]

Wouldn't follow tried and tested, buy on the rumour, sell on the news.

You would have to loopy to invest now, very turbulent waters.

Edited by Thesprucegoose on Wednesday 18th July 17:49

[CryptoSuperDave]

i wouldnt necessarily say loopy to buy now.. we're 3 weeks away from SEC decision on Bitcoin ETF.. even 20k could be considered cheap after 10th August when Bitcoin ETF is hopefully approved.

SEC already view BTC / ETH as commodities from March of this year, so ETF the next step.. fingers crossed for a positive outcome..

.. if not, then the bears will muller us all and here comes the $5k retracement they've wanted since xmas..

My moneys in, and im hoping for approval - 60k BTC by xmas anyone! - haha :-)



ps. yes you can have some of what i'm smoking!

[Some Gump]

CryptoSuperDave said:

i wouldnt necessarily say loopy to buy now.. we're 3 weeks away from SEC decision on Bitcoin ETF.. even 20k could be considered cheap after 10th August when Bitcoin ETF is hopefully approved.

SEC already view BTC / ETH as commodities from March of this year, so ETF the next step.. fingers crossed for a positive outcome..

.. if not, then the bears will muller us all and here comes the $5k retracement they've wanted since xmas..

My moneys in, and im hoping for approval - 60k BTC by xmas anyone! - haha :-)



ps. yes you can have some of what i'm smoking!

Hahahah yeah that will totally happen.

[anonymous-user]

So since march last year, incidentally when BTC dropped to under 1k from 3 and I bought my first BTC, the sec pretty much rejected it, now it has all changed, when I'm pretty certain nothing has.

It all came down to exchanges and regulation, and as I've posted before, one of the top three is most dodgy out there. Nothing I've seen has changed in this respect.

I will wait again for the fall and buy again.

But as it is clear the sec respects BTC more than the scammy icons then maybe it could approve. The problem would be for exchanges to drop all ico coins and leave the valid ones, which considering they are making billions off I just can't see them doing that.

Edited by Thesprucegoose on Thursday 19th July 00:53

[DonkeyApple]

CryptoSuperDave said:

i wouldnt necessarily say loopy to buy now.. we're 3 weeks away from SEC decision on Bitcoin ETF.. even 20k could be considered cheap after 10th August when Bitcoin ETF is hopefully approved.

SEC already view BTC / ETH as commodities from March of this year, so ETF the next step.. fingers crossed for a positive outcome..

.. if not, then the bears will muller us all and here comes the $5k retracement they've wanted since xmas..

My moneys in, and im hoping for approval - 60k BTC by xmas anyone! - haha :-)



ps. yes you can have some of what i'm smoking!

The ETF is a very interesting play as there are more people with far more money who don’t want anything to do with any part of the bitcoin mechanism but wish to take exposure to the price via a recognised mechanism than there are punters willing to throw money into weird and wonderful devices owned and run by faceless criminals in waiting. Think of it as yet another example of the conventional young/old wealth divide.

Re that chart, it looks as if at least one of the data sets has been manipulated to give a pretty picture to someone’s pitch?

Also, the gold ETF thing isn’t strictly true. It’s a coincidence that gold started to rally against the Usd at the same time as Goldman’s ETF was issued. It’s a bit like the Indian wedding season story every year, it’s nice and it pass out an article for a hack but gold is moved by central banks not a few Indians renting bangles or Stanley’s pension advisor buying £100 worth of etf. If one of the big economies is buying then it goes up, if one is selling it goes down. Around that true market supply and demand the physical supply of new gold also ebbs and flows. And obviously global risk and currency devaluation will be drivers at various points.

However, while I believe that chart to be fake and the argument put on gold to be incorrect I think that a BTC ETF could deliver new and large capital inflows which could drive the price up significantly.

The key question is by how much could this drive the price up? Well the SEC leaks like a sieve. All information held by it can be purchased in reality. So you’d expect to see some price action ahead of the decision, especially as any front running would not be on easily traceable, recognised exchanges so people will be very keen to have a free run without any real risk of wearing orange for twenty years. The last week could be speculative front running but the chart doesn’t suggest that someone knows yet?

The other aspect is what is the typical daily volume of BTC? And how does this compare to the likely demand created by an ETF?

As for whether the ETF will get the go ahead, it’s easy to imagine that formalising investment in a regicnised exchange is likely to add price stability in the long run and price stability is likely to encourage more people willing to use BTC for illegal activity so maybe political pressure of wanting to keep the greenback as the de facto global criminal currency will stop this?

[CryptoSuperDave]

Interesting points/information, thanks

The ETF is a very interesting play as there are more people with far more money who don’t want anything to do with any part of the bitcoin mechanism but wish to take exposure to the price via a recognised mechanism than there are punters willing to throw money into weird and wonderful devices owned and run by faceless criminals in waiting. Think of it as yet another example of the conventional young/old wealth divide.

Re that chart, it looks as if at least one of the data sets has been manipulated to give a pretty picture to someone’s pitch?

I didnt draw the chart, but the BTC data is unadulterated, the GOLD seems correct though from a quick look? the time duration is obviously compacted for that gold chart (!) - BTC moves fast in its runs and corrections. i wouldnt really class time compression as chart/data manipulation though?

Also, the gold ETF thing isn’t strictly true. It’s a coincidence that gold started to rally against the Usd at the same time as Goldman’s ETF was issued. It’s a bit like the Indian wedding season story every year, it’s nice and it pass out an article for a hack but gold is moved by central banks not a few Indians renting bangles or Stanley’s pension advisor buying £100 worth of etf. If one of the big economies is buying then it goes up, if one is selling it goes down. Around that true market supply and demand the physical supply of new gold also ebbs and flows. And obviously global risk and currency devaluation will be drivers at various points.
However, while I believe that chart to be fake and the argument put on gold to be incorrect I think that a BTC ETF could deliver new and large capital inflows which could drive the price up significantly.

Yes. just an example - and the charts do look pretty damn close pre ETF to be of interest (even if time compressed!)

The key question is by how much could this drive the price up? Well the SEC leaks like a sieve. All information held by it can be purchased in reality. So you’d expect to see some price action ahead of the decision, especially as any front running would not be on easily traceable, recognised exchanges so people will be very keen to have a free run without any real risk of wearing orange for twenty years. The last week could be speculative front running but the chart doesn’t suggest that someone knows yet?

Thanks, i'll keep an ear out for some leaks.. someone in whalepool will no doubt hear first - wouldnt imagine front running yet, too far off (in crypto time!)

The other aspect is what is the typical daily volume of BTC? And how does this compare to the likely demand created by an ETF?

Daily volume is around $6b last couple days - up from around $3-4b days leading, though Nov/Dec runup we saw spikes of $20b volume - sadly alot of new money into the sphere have been burnt after xmas - will take something major to push on through the resistance now and bring in new money (such as an ETF)

As for whether the ETF will get the go ahead, it’s easy to imagine that formalising investment in a regicnised exchange is likely to add price stability in the long run and price stability is likely to encourage more people willing to use BTC for illegal activity so maybe political pressure of wanting to keep the greenback as the de facto global criminal currency will stop this?

BTC isnt really ideal for illegal activities these days, not unless people use an expensive tumbler (which many still do).. but even then its likely traceable with a bit of work. Many such interactions use a privacy coin (Monero for example) should they wish to buy anything considered illegal.. most reputable markets and traders accept Monero.
I dont really get why you say political pressure would want illegal activity to continue to use fiat which is 100% fungible, versus BTC which is traceable!?
but as you say stability in BTC would be good and welcomed (which will only come with more liquidity) - sadly BTCs volatility does have a large impact with many alt coins (which are traded against BTC).. BTC goes up, alts go down - BTC goes down, alts go down - BTC goes sideways, alts have a chance! (obviously extreme generalisation but BTCs volatility doesnt help with alts.. until they can be tethered)

[Efbe]

DonkeyApple said:

However, while I believe that chart to be fake and the argument put on gold to be incorrect I think that a BTC ETF could deliver new and large capital inflows which could drive the price up significantly.

https://www.google.com/search?q=value+of+gold+over+time&safe=off&client=firefox-b-ab&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj48_CT9qrcAhVTglwKHSgWCRcQ_AUICigB&biw=1536&bih=728

time frames are obviously completely different though