Crypto Currency Thread
Discussion
bongtom said:
I’d say the people who own huge amounts of BTC do control the market.
I would say ocassionally heavily influence rather than control. Such speculative activity isn't unique to bitcoin, it happens in all sorts of markets. The more liquid bitcoin becomes, the trickier it will get.Behemoth said:
DonkeyApple said:
What’s the mechanism for shorting BTC directly?
https://www.investopedia.com/news/short-bitcoin/However a $74m short is placed it’s going to involve at least one entity bound by insider trader regs. And such a trade begs the question as to who is the lender and what are they charging or even governing the lend?
DonkeyApple said:
However a $74m short is placed it’s going to involve at least one entity bound by insider trader regs.
Why? 12,000 odd BTC placed directly isn't insider trading. It isn't a great deal in the scheme of things. Much larger amounts have recently been moving, with lots of speculation floating about who it is and what they're doing. What insider regs are they breaking? https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/9bfnff/n...Behemoth said:
DonkeyApple said:
However a $74m short is placed it’s going to involve at least one entity bound by insider trader regs.
Why? 12,000 odd BTC placed directly isn't insider trading. It isn't a great deal in the scheme of things. Much larger amounts have recently been moving, with lots of speculation floating about who it is and what they're doing. What insider regs are they breaking? https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/9bfnff/n...Secondly, how do you deliver the physical? Does BTC operate on extended settlement? If not, or if your short position requires a time frame beyond possible settlement extensions then you need to borrow. If you’re not borrowing then you need an entity to write you an OTC and they borrow to hedge. If that entity is subject to insider trading regs then so is the transaction.
I don’t see how it is possible to state any fact re insider trading until you know explicitly how the trade was executed?
You said that you cannot do insider trading on a market no one controls.
I said it depends as your Stevens is the one that is explicit but not correct. Since then I’ve been asking about likely mechanisms with a particular focus on a physical short given the nature of who writes OTCs of that size and who owns the exchange traded contracts. That leaves physical, direct shorting but brings into play the need for a borrow so brings us back to which entities are in the market offering that type of borrow?
All I am doing is highlighting that you can indeed be liable for insider trading on a market which no one controls as it is who you are and how you execute that trade that is relevant in such a situation.
I said it depends as your Stevens is the one that is explicit but not correct. Since then I’ve been asking about likely mechanisms with a particular focus on a physical short given the nature of who writes OTCs of that size and who owns the exchange traded contracts. That leaves physical, direct shorting but brings into play the need for a borrow so brings us back to which entities are in the market offering that type of borrow?
All I am doing is highlighting that you can indeed be liable for insider trading on a market which no one controls as it is who you are and how you execute that trade that is relevant in such a situation.
I wonder if the big coins will become one of the best ever instruments to provide lessons about the nature of speculation. The retail brokers whom provide overall client sentiment data pretty much show 99% of people are long. I imagine that'll be the same for most who hold the 'physical' coins (can retail get short if not using a derivative?). Nearly all will be in losing positions.
Interesting times.
Interesting times.
DonkeyApple said:
You said that you cannot do insider trading on a market no one controls.
I said it depends as your Stevens is the one that is explicit but not correct. Since then I’ve been asking about likely mechanisms with a particular focus on a physical short given the nature of who writes OTCs of that size and who owns the exchange traded contracts. That leaves physical, direct shorting but brings into play the need for a borrow so brings us back to which entities are in the market offering that type of borrow?
All I am doing is highlighting that you can indeed be liable for insider trading on a market which no one controls as it is who you are and how you execute that trade that is relevant in such a situation.
ok, I see where you're coming from.I said it depends as your Stevens is the one that is explicit but not correct. Since then I’ve been asking about likely mechanisms with a particular focus on a physical short given the nature of who writes OTCs of that size and who owns the exchange traded contracts. That leaves physical, direct shorting but brings into play the need for a borrow so brings us back to which entities are in the market offering that type of borrow?
All I am doing is highlighting that you can indeed be liable for insider trading on a market which no one controls as it is who you are and how you execute that trade that is relevant in such a situation.
La Liga said:
I wonder if the big coins will become one of the best ever instruments to provide lessons about the nature of speculation. The retail brokers whom provide overall client sentiment data pretty much show 99% of people are long. I imagine that'll be the same for most who hold the 'physical' coins (can retail get short if not using a derivative?). Nearly all will be in losing positions.
Interesting times.
No. No one will learn anything. Interesting times.
It’s no different from all the penny share and AIM cr4p. The losers always rationalise their loss by denying it had anything to do with the product or their decision but all about how the evil corporate system, market makers or shorters have yet again screwed them and stolen their money.
You cannot deprogram or reprogram a f
kwit. A fkwit is a fkwit. They were born as fkwits, they will die as fkwits and they will live their whole life as fkwits. Around the edges of the f
kwit world a few non fkwit passers by get drawn in momentarily. They can escape because they will know that they have momentarily acted like a fkwit and that is why they are not actually a born and bred fkwit. Most of the crypto f
kwits will have gotten a taste for downloading an exciting app and using it to send your Wongo loan to a random stranger to make them rich and will be part of the largest fkwit army ever assembled that like a plague of fkwitted locusts will soon be marching on to find the next exciting person to give a load of money that they haven’t got to. The post crypto f
kwit harvesting will yield bumper returns for all those who make their living getting fkwits to give them money. 
Thesprucegoose said:
btc down 14% in 7 days
erh nearly 40%
It really isn't stopping no recvery, i just can't see how it can recover as too many people have been/being burnt.
The Sports Direct customers won’t be returning but that doesn’t preclude other sources of money from becoming engaged at some point in the future. This is a pretty conventional transition period for markets where the initial retail flow ends and if the product is worth anything then the institutional side picks up the mantle, changes it to meet the requirements to survive and it just becomes another vanilla instrument. erh nearly 40%
It really isn't stopping no recvery, i just can't see how it can recover as too many people have been/being burnt.
‘Pubs to Clubs’
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