Crypto Currency Thread
Discussion
You can now pay tax with BTC in Ohio. https://www.wsj.com/articles/pay-taxes-with-bitcoi...
Behemoth said:
You can now pay tax with BTC in Ohio. https://www.wsj.com/articles/pay-taxes-with-bitcoi...
Irrelevant unless your tax bill is denominated in BTC. This is just a gimmick from public sector employees that got the blockchain bug a year late..bongtom said:
BTC $3675.
Now is the time to buy.
“And you can take that to the bank”
Quite extraordinary isn't it? 12 months ago much of the developed world would be coming in their pants at the thought of $3675 to buy in at. Today, no-one cares. Who remembers that news piece around 12 months ago where some woman had converted her entire savings of (iirc) several hundred thousand into BTC? Me being about £300 down on Monero at the moment kinda pales into insignificance in comparison... Now is the time to buy.
“And you can take that to the bank”
Sod it, I'll throw my hat in the ring for a hiding.
I started buying in again with the small amount I had sat in an exchange from a sell from a few months ago. I will buy small amounts as it drops further from here.
It's all good fun to me. I took out my initial investment when it was flying. If I had to cash out today I'd have done well. So why then?
1. Curiousity. I've sat through 2 previous bubbles in bitcoin and they seem to all play out the same. I promise you this level of "i told you so" and "it has no value" was exactly the same each time. Didn't stop it. I find the ups and downs exciting if I'm honest.
2. Cheesy I know, bitcoin is volatile to the extreme and someone mentioned earlier about people constantly making bad decisions in investment. I feel like I've gained lots of knowledge on the emotional side of investing. One day I will time the bubble correctly, I kind of see it as practice. It's so easy for someone to say "why didn't you sell at the top." Anyone in the game knows it is harder than that. One day I'd like to sell at the top.
3. I don't massively care on the day to day, month to month price. My strategy is to buy these dips. I've had my money out so now it's just about building the coins. So I do need these wild swings to play out for me to do that. Again, it's quite exciting. I've been asked how low it would have to go before I'm out? Well, if it went to 1 dollar I'd buy with everything I had left in the account. That seems obvious, as things stand. That may change with future intrinsic issues.
That's it really, I'm no bitcoin fanboy. I don't know if it will be here in 20 years. I feel like it's been around a chunk of my adult life. Who knows. I know lots got burnt in the last year, well that's life really. I'm not basing my success with BTC on what someone who came to it in the latter part of 2017 opinion of it is. I will continue to do my thing.
I started buying in again with the small amount I had sat in an exchange from a sell from a few months ago. I will buy small amounts as it drops further from here.
It's all good fun to me. I took out my initial investment when it was flying. If I had to cash out today I'd have done well. So why then?
1. Curiousity. I've sat through 2 previous bubbles in bitcoin and they seem to all play out the same. I promise you this level of "i told you so" and "it has no value" was exactly the same each time. Didn't stop it. I find the ups and downs exciting if I'm honest.
2. Cheesy I know, bitcoin is volatile to the extreme and someone mentioned earlier about people constantly making bad decisions in investment. I feel like I've gained lots of knowledge on the emotional side of investing. One day I will time the bubble correctly, I kind of see it as practice. It's so easy for someone to say "why didn't you sell at the top." Anyone in the game knows it is harder than that. One day I'd like to sell at the top.
3. I don't massively care on the day to day, month to month price. My strategy is to buy these dips. I've had my money out so now it's just about building the coins. So I do need these wild swings to play out for me to do that. Again, it's quite exciting. I've been asked how low it would have to go before I'm out? Well, if it went to 1 dollar I'd buy with everything I had left in the account. That seems obvious, as things stand. That may change with future intrinsic issues.
That's it really, I'm no bitcoin fanboy. I don't know if it will be here in 20 years. I feel like it's been around a chunk of my adult life. Who knows. I know lots got burnt in the last year, well that's life really. I'm not basing my success with BTC on what someone who came to it in the latter part of 2017 opinion of it is. I will continue to do my thing.
Please don’t take this the wrong way but I have no mental capability of wording things very eloquently, politely or gently so find it easy to just scribble things simply and bluntly:
‘I will buy small amounts as it drops further from here.‘
Loser mindset. You’ve already set in the loser justification for when it goes wrong. This is the precise mechanism that leads to the total failure of all small cap punters, gold miners, who fail to randomly stumble across that lucky nugget.
The expression ‘buy the dips’ is a good phrase when used in its correct context. There are two key fundamentals required. The first is that the overall macro trend must be bullish and the second is that you buy the rising far leg of the dip not the falling initial side. But the Dip doesn’t make sense if you’re either setting the longs on the downside leg or if the overall trend in bearish. Either of those actions are simply ‘having a punt’ and punters stats apply, ie you’ve a 90-99% likelihood of failure.
What you are technically doing is gambling. But idiots gambling, not intelligent gambling.
The intelligent gambler never buys on the downward leg but waits for the upward trend to appear. Afterall, even a gambler sees no point in placing a bet in one direction when they actually believe it will probably go in the other.
The gambler waits at the table , holding their stake firm. The gambler only moves his stake into play when the odds finally move to them.
With a punter’s thin air play that’s rebasing after that big speculators bubble no sane person would take long positions while the rebasing is taking place. The game here on the long side is to either punt the ultra short term reversals but the downside risk almost certainly erases any potential gains unless using something like very out of the money call options, or to wait for the bottom to be in, the reversal underway and the final mini-ramp, last gasp that will rally the market back up a bit before that peaks and terminal capitulation comes into play.
‘I will buy small amounts as it drops further from here.‘
Loser mindset. You’ve already set in the loser justification for when it goes wrong. This is the precise mechanism that leads to the total failure of all small cap punters, gold miners, who fail to randomly stumble across that lucky nugget.
The expression ‘buy the dips’ is a good phrase when used in its correct context. There are two key fundamentals required. The first is that the overall macro trend must be bullish and the second is that you buy the rising far leg of the dip not the falling initial side. But the Dip doesn’t make sense if you’re either setting the longs on the downside leg or if the overall trend in bearish. Either of those actions are simply ‘having a punt’ and punters stats apply, ie you’ve a 90-99% likelihood of failure.
What you are technically doing is gambling. But idiots gambling, not intelligent gambling.
The intelligent gambler never buys on the downward leg but waits for the upward trend to appear. Afterall, even a gambler sees no point in placing a bet in one direction when they actually believe it will probably go in the other.
The gambler waits at the table , holding their stake firm. The gambler only moves his stake into play when the odds finally move to them.
With a punter’s thin air play that’s rebasing after that big speculators bubble no sane person would take long positions while the rebasing is taking place. The game here on the long side is to either punt the ultra short term reversals but the downside risk almost certainly erases any potential gains unless using something like very out of the money call options, or to wait for the bottom to be in, the reversal underway and the final mini-ramp, last gasp that will rally the market back up a bit before that peaks and terminal capitulation comes into play.
DonkeyApple said:
Please don’t take this the wrong way but I have no mental capability of wording things very eloquently, politely or gently so find it easy to just scribble things simply and bluntly:
‘I will buy small amounts as it drops further from here.‘
Loser mindset. You’ve already set in the loser justification for when it goes wrong. This is the precise mechanism that leads to the total failure of all small cap punters, gold miners, who fail to randomly stumble across that lucky nugget.
The expression ‘buy the dips’ is a good phrase when used in its correct context. There are two key fundamentals required. The first is that the overall macro trend must be bullish and the second is that you buy the rising far leg of the dip not the falling initial side. But the Dip doesn’t make sense if you’re either setting the longs on the downside leg or if the overall trend in bearish. Either of those actions are simply ‘having a punt’ and punters stats apply, ie you’ve a 90-99% likelihood of failure.
What you are technically doing is gambling. But idiots gambling, not intelligent gambling.
The intelligent gambler never buys on the downward leg but waits for the upward trend to appear. Afterall, even a gambler sees no point in placing a bet in one direction when they actually believe it will probably go in the other.
The gambler waits at the table , holding their stake firm. The gambler only moves his stake into play when the odds finally move to them.
With a punter’s thin air play that’s rebasing after that big speculators bubble no sane person would take long positions while the rebasing is taking place. The game here on the long side is to either punt the ultra short term reversals but the downside risk almost certainly erases any potential gains unless using something like very out of the money call options, or to wait for the bottom to be in, the reversal underway and the final mini-ramp, last gasp that will rally the market back up a bit before that peaks and terminal capitulation comes into play.
Agree with this! ‘I will buy small amounts as it drops further from here.‘
Loser mindset. You’ve already set in the loser justification for when it goes wrong. This is the precise mechanism that leads to the total failure of all small cap punters, gold miners, who fail to randomly stumble across that lucky nugget.
The expression ‘buy the dips’ is a good phrase when used in its correct context. There are two key fundamentals required. The first is that the overall macro trend must be bullish and the second is that you buy the rising far leg of the dip not the falling initial side. But the Dip doesn’t make sense if you’re either setting the longs on the downside leg or if the overall trend in bearish. Either of those actions are simply ‘having a punt’ and punters stats apply, ie you’ve a 90-99% likelihood of failure.
What you are technically doing is gambling. But idiots gambling, not intelligent gambling.
The intelligent gambler never buys on the downward leg but waits for the upward trend to appear. Afterall, even a gambler sees no point in placing a bet in one direction when they actually believe it will probably go in the other.
The gambler waits at the table , holding their stake firm. The gambler only moves his stake into play when the odds finally move to them.
With a punter’s thin air play that’s rebasing after that big speculators bubble no sane person would take long positions while the rebasing is taking place. The game here on the long side is to either punt the ultra short term reversals but the downside risk almost certainly erases any potential gains unless using something like very out of the money call options, or to wait for the bottom to be in, the reversal underway and the final mini-ramp, last gasp that will rally the market back up a bit before that peaks and terminal capitulation comes into play.
I bought in October 2017 on the back of the insane hype / story. I also was completely aware of what i thought was a bubble, and my play was simply to ride it for a bit. Sold in December 17th and 18th, after seeing "bitcoin frenzy" headlines on daily papers and also watching the futures prices dropping. This was a decent amount of money too, 5 fig rolls.
I would happily buy again, but only when the market turned bullish again, and after a clear trend/story has built up again (if it can possibly top last years hype)
rufusgti said:
Sod it, I'll throw my hat in the ring for a hiding.
I started buying in again with the small amount I had sat in an exchange from a sell from a few months ago. I will buy small amounts as it drops further from here.
It's all good fun to me. I took out my initial investment when it was flying. If I had to cash out today I'd have done well. So why then?
1. Curiousity. I've sat through 2 previous bubbles in bitcoin and they seem to all play out the same. I promise you this level of "i told you so" and "it has no value" was exactly the same each time. Didn't stop it. I find the ups and downs exciting if I'm honest.
2. Cheesy I know, bitcoin is volatile to the extreme and someone mentioned earlier about people constantly making bad decisions in investment. I feel like I've gained lots of knowledge on the emotional side of investing. One day I will time the bubble correctly, I kind of see it as practice. It's so easy for someone to say "why didn't you sell at the top." Anyone in the game knows it is harder than that. One day I'd like to sell at the top.
3. I don't massively care on the day to day, month to month price. My strategy is to buy these dips. I've had my money out so now it's just about building the coins. So I do need these wild swings to play out for me to do that. Again, it's quite exciting. I've been asked how low it would have to go before I'm out? Well, if it went to 1 dollar I'd buy with everything I had left in the account. That seems obvious, as things stand. That may change with future intrinsic issues.
That's it really, I'm no bitcoin fanboy. I don't know if it will be here in 20 years. I feel like it's been around a chunk of my adult life. Who knows. I know lots got burnt in the last year, well that's life really. I'm not basing my success with BTC on what someone who came to it in the latter part of 2017 opinion of it is. I will continue to do my thing.
Best of luck, but I think luck is all that you can hope for. I started buying in again with the small amount I had sat in an exchange from a sell from a few months ago. I will buy small amounts as it drops further from here.
It's all good fun to me. I took out my initial investment when it was flying. If I had to cash out today I'd have done well. So why then?
1. Curiousity. I've sat through 2 previous bubbles in bitcoin and they seem to all play out the same. I promise you this level of "i told you so" and "it has no value" was exactly the same each time. Didn't stop it. I find the ups and downs exciting if I'm honest.
2. Cheesy I know, bitcoin is volatile to the extreme and someone mentioned earlier about people constantly making bad decisions in investment. I feel like I've gained lots of knowledge on the emotional side of investing. One day I will time the bubble correctly, I kind of see it as practice. It's so easy for someone to say "why didn't you sell at the top." Anyone in the game knows it is harder than that. One day I'd like to sell at the top.
3. I don't massively care on the day to day, month to month price. My strategy is to buy these dips. I've had my money out so now it's just about building the coins. So I do need these wild swings to play out for me to do that. Again, it's quite exciting. I've been asked how low it would have to go before I'm out? Well, if it went to 1 dollar I'd buy with everything I had left in the account. That seems obvious, as things stand. That may change with future intrinsic issues.
That's it really, I'm no bitcoin fanboy. I don't know if it will be here in 20 years. I feel like it's been around a chunk of my adult life. Who knows. I know lots got burnt in the last year, well that's life really. I'm not basing my success with BTC on what someone who came to it in the latter part of 2017 opinion of it is. I will continue to do my thing.
If you can spot these big bubbles relatively early on, allocates some funds and hold while the mania builds and exit long before it peaks then it can be a very effective way to have a punt. The key lies in recognising and being happy that those funds will be dormant the bulk of the time. It’s not that common to have events like cryptocurrencies followed without a break by the cannabis story.
DonkeyApple said:
Please don’t take this the wrong way but I have no mental capability of wording things very eloquently, politely or gently so find it easy to just scribble things simply and bluntly:
‘I will buy small amounts as it drops further from here.‘
Loser mindset. You’ve already set in the loser justification for when it goes wrong. This is the precise mechanism that leads to the total failure of all small cap punters, gold miners, who fail to randomly stumble across that lucky nugget.
The expression ‘buy the dips’ is a good phrase when used in its correct context. There are two key fundamentals required. The first is that the overall macro trend must be bullish and the second is that you buy the rising far leg of the dip not the falling initial side. But the Dip doesn’t make sense if you’re either setting the longs on the downside leg or if the overall trend in bearish. Either of those actions are simply ‘having a punt’ and punters stats apply, ie you’ve a 90-99% likelihood of failure.
What you are technically doing is gambling. But idiots gambling, not intelligent gambling.
The intelligent gambler never buys on the downward leg but waits for the upward trend to appear. Afterall, even a gambler sees no point in placing a bet in one direction when they actually believe it will probably go in the other.
The gambler waits at the table , holding their stake firm. The gambler only moves his stake into play when the odds finally move to them.
With a punter’s thin air play that’s rebasing after that big speculators bubble no sane person would take long positions while the rebasing is taking place. The game here on the long side is to either punt the ultra short term reversals but the downside risk almost certainly erases any potential gains unless using something like very out of the money call options, or to wait for the bottom to be in, the reversal underway and the final mini-ramp, last gasp that will rally the market back up a bit before that peaks and terminal capitulation comes into play.
Interesting, and don't worry about being blunt, it's all good with me. ‘I will buy small amounts as it drops further from here.‘
Loser mindset. You’ve already set in the loser justification for when it goes wrong. This is the precise mechanism that leads to the total failure of all small cap punters, gold miners, who fail to randomly stumble across that lucky nugget.
The expression ‘buy the dips’ is a good phrase when used in its correct context. There are two key fundamentals required. The first is that the overall macro trend must be bullish and the second is that you buy the rising far leg of the dip not the falling initial side. But the Dip doesn’t make sense if you’re either setting the longs on the downside leg or if the overall trend in bearish. Either of those actions are simply ‘having a punt’ and punters stats apply, ie you’ve a 90-99% likelihood of failure.
What you are technically doing is gambling. But idiots gambling, not intelligent gambling.
The intelligent gambler never buys on the downward leg but waits for the upward trend to appear. Afterall, even a gambler sees no point in placing a bet in one direction when they actually believe it will probably go in the other.
The gambler waits at the table , holding their stake firm. The gambler only moves his stake into play when the odds finally move to them.
With a punter’s thin air play that’s rebasing after that big speculators bubble no sane person would take long positions while the rebasing is taking place. The game here on the long side is to either punt the ultra short term reversals but the downside risk almost certainly erases any potential gains unless using something like very out of the money call options, or to wait for the bottom to be in, the reversal underway and the final mini-ramp, last gasp that will rally the market back up a bit before that peaks and terminal capitulation comes into play.
Isn't a lot of what you're saying based on wether the individual thinks BTC (or whatever they are buying into) will succeed long term. Don't forget my money has been floating about in the ether of crypto for getting on for 6 years. I'm not going to be crass and start telling anyone how much I've made but my gains have been long and steady. Obviously this year hasn't been good for the £££ but has been good for the coin count. Now, what your suggesting is that this is the end for BTC. I'm not going to argue wether that's the case or not but I personaly very much doubt it right now.
Having said that, your post does make sense to me. The money invested in the down strides could be invested in another market that's on the up. If BTC swings then yes I could come back to it. I think this is your point anyway, and I agree. The answer to that is being lazy I think. I keep my eye on BTC and have coins and money floating around so it's just easy. Efficient investing.. no. Gambling.. yes. Lazy.. yes.
The other thing, like the following poster to you who got lucky. Nobody knows when the top is. So saying you jumped in on the up and made some money and pulled out because you could see the bubble.... Sorry that's nonesense. You did not know that we weren't at the top the day you bought in, and you did not know how long it would ride out. You got lucky. You gambled. You won. You could have just as easily lost.
I love the comparison with stocks and shares, when in reality the whole game is geared up towards exchanges and early investors. No exchange can print its own money to buy shares in the real world.
No one can play the crypto game and honestly think they know what they are doing. I guess in time we may find out how badly the whole market is manipulated, but doubt it, too much money has been made.
Take for example tether back in Jan 300 million USD were printed off, probably loads more,its a billion pound game, probably the biggest ponzi/pryamid in recent time. 99% of BTC are stored in 1% of wallets. 10,000 users own 40% of total btc's.
Xrp is making 50-100 million USD selling coins a month.
No one can play the crypto game and honestly think they know what they are doing. I guess in time we may find out how badly the whole market is manipulated, but doubt it, too much money has been made.
Take for example tether back in Jan 300 million USD were printed off, probably loads more,its a billion pound game, probably the biggest ponzi/pryamid in recent time. 99% of BTC are stored in 1% of wallets. 10,000 users own 40% of total btc's.
Xrp is making 50-100 million USD selling coins a month.
Edited by Thesprucegoose on Monday 26th November 17:32
simonrockman said:
I'm a little surprised at how little general news there is about the continual slide. The news is there if you look for it, but it's not front and centre.
Yep especially given all the coverage it was given this time last year when it was running high. I remember this gem of an article..
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/men/thinking-man/banki...
bongtom said:
Behemoth is noticeable by his absence when BTC take big drops.
Odd that.
Maybe he’s cashing out and buying a more stable currency. Bolivar for example.
Odd that.
Maybe he’s cashing out and buying a more stable currency. Bolivar for example.
iirc I wrote sthg @ the w/e
Donkey is right, buy the confirmed bull, sell the confirmed bear. Speculate on shorter time frames whichever way you want.
I wrote quite a while back that there was much further to drop. If there isn't a strong bounce with good volume, then further down it will surely go.
Meanwhile, bitcoin still works. It works at pretty much any $ price, but will go through years of speculative trading before the market settles. This isn't the last Bitcoin bubble pop you'll witness.
rufusgti said:
Interesting, and don't worry about being blunt, it's all good with me.
Isn't a lot of what you're saying based on wether the individual thinks BTC (or whatever they are buying into) will succeed long term. Don't forget my money has been floating about in the ether of crypto for getting on for 6 years. I'm not going to be crass and start telling anyone how much I've made but my gains have been long and steady. Obviously this year hasn't been good for the £££ but has been good for the coin count. Now, what your suggesting is that this is the end for BTC. I'm not going to argue wether that's the case or not but I personaly very much doubt it right now.
Having said that, your post does make sense to me. The money invested in the down strides could be invested in another market that's on the up. If BTC swings then yes I could come back to it. I think this is your point anyway, and I agree. The answer to that is being lazy I think. I keep my eye on BTC and have coins and money floating around so it's just easy. Efficient investing.. no. Gambling.. yes. Lazy.. yes.
The other thing, like the following poster to you who got lucky. Nobody knows when the top is. So saying you jumped in on the up and made some money and pulled out because you could see the bubble.... Sorry that's nonesense. You did not know that we weren't at the top the day you bought in, and you did not know how long it would ride out. You got lucky. You gambled. You won. You could have just as easily lost.
The key in how markets/events like this work is that almost no one who is buying in on the leading side of the bubble has any true consideration of what the product or concept is. They are simply gambling. The verbiage they read is merely part of the process of convincing themselves that the excessive amount of wealth they have placed on risk is justified and the verbiage they repeat is part of the mechanism to not just sell to themselves but to recruit others to their position. Isn't a lot of what you're saying based on wether the individual thinks BTC (or whatever they are buying into) will succeed long term. Don't forget my money has been floating about in the ether of crypto for getting on for 6 years. I'm not going to be crass and start telling anyone how much I've made but my gains have been long and steady. Obviously this year hasn't been good for the £££ but has been good for the coin count. Now, what your suggesting is that this is the end for BTC. I'm not going to argue wether that's the case or not but I personaly very much doubt it right now.
Having said that, your post does make sense to me. The money invested in the down strides could be invested in another market that's on the up. If BTC swings then yes I could come back to it. I think this is your point anyway, and I agree. The answer to that is being lazy I think. I keep my eye on BTC and have coins and money floating around so it's just easy. Efficient investing.. no. Gambling.. yes. Lazy.. yes.
The other thing, like the following poster to you who got lucky. Nobody knows when the top is. So saying you jumped in on the up and made some money and pulled out because you could see the bubble.... Sorry that's nonesense. You did not know that we weren't at the top the day you bought in, and you did not know how long it would ride out. You got lucky. You gambled. You won. You could have just as easily lost.
Absolutely every bubble that has or will ever happen works exactly the same way because we are human and humans don’t change. We are what we are and so events unfold driven by the exact same human scenarios every time.
The amazing thing about social media is that it lays this process bare for all to see far more clearly. You can see the chap who is the leading authority on the subject and becomes the messiah that the masses follow and eventually turn to for support and reconciliation when the turn comes in. You can see the rabid anger and desperation of those who have gambled too much, you can see the dreamers who have already spent the gains before they appear and you can see the contrarians who call humbug. But what you don’t really see at all easily are the people who move in early, ride part of the action and bail long before any peak appears. What you do see are huge numbers of people lying after the peak about the levels they dream that they got out at. Never underestimate the total delusion that huge losses bring and the vehemence it creates in its victims.
All bubbles are the same. The best way to understand bubbles is to think back to our days at school and remember the ‘crazes’. Crazes are bubbles. Think back to how they slowly built until one day everyone in the school had the thing, there were a few kids highly proficient with them but the majority didn’t have a clue, copies and alternate versions appear, the school eventually steps in to regulate and then one day anyone seen with one of these things is considered a backward t
t. All the items get put in drawers and forgotten about. Cryptos have really just been fidget spinners for Millenials. It’s just cost many of them a large chunk of their future instead of their parents a couple of quid.
You can spot crazes and to be honest, we all knew that cryptos were a bubble by the time hairdressers were talking about it. But that’s probably the right point to be bailing as that really is the end point.
Cryptos never were currencies and everyone can see that now. At no point did they or could they act as a form of currency. But that doesn’t mean they won’t in the future.
The key thing about this first phase is that no one bought in ever wanting or hoping they would be a currency. It’s what they talked about it being as part of the ramping hype but they bought in because they wanted the price to double/triple and make them rich. No one wanted cryptos to be a currency.
But we are arguably transitioning into the second phase now. If all the speculators give up and all those who lost a fortune become anti then these coins might just stabilise at a lower, sustainable level and start acting like a currency. All the gimmicks will go, all the spivs leave for richer pastures and what is left is a cleared out, cleaner pool where cryptos could actually begin to find genuine purpose and transition into being something of use to society etc.
The far side of the bubble is the forest fire. Once all the rotten wood and weak trees are cleared then after a period of time we get to see whether there is any real value or purpose.
So, I think we are potentially entering the genuinely interesting time for these things. Arguably we probably have one speculative last gasping bounce back up before capitulation but with the insanity mostly gone then looking back in a few years we might be able to say that the start of 2019 was the start of crypto V2 as what’s good about them is utilised in commerce and what’s bad is left behind in the drawers of crazy punters.
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