Crypto Currency Thread
Discussion
Ted2 said:
BCH requires you to do your own research (especially so if you're only buying into it to speculate - which you will be doing, seeing as it can't be used anywhere). Too many biased fanboys on each side of the fence to get unbiased opinions.
r/bitcoin will tell you BCH is the work of the devil and you'll lose all your money.
r/btc will tell you BTC is the work of the devil and you'll lose all your money. (r/btc - despite its name - is the "official" reddit for BCH)
If you're unable to see through this mud (and I don't blame anyone that can't), you need to conduct more of your own basic research rather than scrape around reddit subs and worse. Seriously, don't invest in anything in this space unless you have formed a clear opinion based on deeper knowledge. The disinformation is going to get worse as crypto gradually gets more valuable and more mass adoption. The (somewhat dangerous) alternative to deep understanding is to find a name / source you can truly trust. It was all much easier before the shiny suits turned up.r/bitcoin will tell you BCH is the work of the devil and you'll lose all your money.
r/btc will tell you BTC is the work of the devil and you'll lose all your money. (r/btc - despite its name - is the "official" reddit for BCH)
Behemoth said:
Ted2 said:
BCH requires you to do your own research (especially so if you're only buying into it to speculate - which you will be doing, seeing as it can't be used anywhere). Too many biased fanboys on each side of the fence to get unbiased opinions.
r/bitcoin will tell you BCH is the work of the devil and you'll lose all your money.
r/btc will tell you BTC is the work of the devil and you'll lose all your money. (r/btc - despite its name - is the "official" reddit for BCH)
If you're unable to see through this mud (and I don't blame anyone that can't), you need to conduct more of your own basic research rather than scrape around reddit subs and worse. Seriously, don't invest in anything in this space unless you have formed a clear opinion based on deeper knowledge. The disinformation is going to get worse as crypto gradually gets more valuable and more mass adoption. The (somewhat dangerous) alternative to deep understanding is to find a name / source you can truly trust. It was all much easier before the shiny suits turned up.r/bitcoin will tell you BCH is the work of the devil and you'll lose all your money.
r/btc will tell you BTC is the work of the devil and you'll lose all your money. (r/btc - despite its name - is the "official" reddit for BCH)
Anything you put into BTC or BCH right now be fully prepared to lose. Both coins are extremely volatile at the moment with wild price fluctuations spanning several thousand $ per day. There are accusations flying around that the coins are being deliberately pumped and dumped by those higher up the food chain that have the ability to do so. It's a real mess and really not something you should be getting into unless you're fully clued on their history and recent developments.
Just paid $31 to send some BTC to another wallet.OMG
So I've read on Bitcoin talk forum that this may all have been a pump and dump by Bitmain...read below by 'Beltsniffer'
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1493601.49...
'I doubt they will do that. They are creating demand for their coin. It's really the only place you can use it.
It goes like this. There is buzz that an Avalon 8 is coming out with efficiencies that could rival the S9, but maybe early next year.
The BTC price skyrockets, "someone" turns on about 2 Exahash worth of gear and drives the difficulty through the roof and creates a "gotta buy more miners" mentality. So Bitmain lists a batch of miners, but only offer BCH for payment. By the time you figure it out, too late. They sold out in 1 hour. You missed out this batch. Wait until the next one, coz now you are stuck with BCH. BCH price drops 50%, so you gotta get more to buy the same miner. If you're prepared, you buy enough to cover the short fall. If not, too bad try again next week. 1 week later, new batch comes out. Pay with your BCH.
Now for the next batch, you get prepared and buy BCH ahead of time. They are happy to sell BCH back to you for BTC. Thus creating demand. In the meantime everybody that wants a miner is buying BCH and driving the price up. We don't care as much about the exchange rate, just that the price we pay lasts long enough to be able to acquire our shiny new miner. So boom, we get the advance twitter notice and run to buy BCH so we can get more miners.
Lather, rinse, repeat...
The end result is that we helped drive up the price so that now, BCH now looks like a viable alternative. The profitability calculators kick in and tell us that we can make twice as much mining BCH as BTC. 70% of BTC hashrate switches over to BCH. It exposes BTC's "weaknesses" and BTC becomes unusable coz the mempool backs up and the only way to get a transaction through is pay huge transaction fees. Of course, eventually our hashrate will stabilize and a new lower difficulty will kick in and the mempool will clear out. But the damage is done. The buzz for BCH has been created. How many BCH news stories did you read this morning from the "mainstream" media. I'd be willing to bet it was more than the last 3 months, since the Aug. 1 fork. The beauty for them, if it doesn't work then they try it again next week.
It's no coincidence that they have a new batch of s9's that has been available for 4 days when all previous batches sold out in hours.
So we did it to ourselves by continuing to buy Bitmain and not buying avalon or ebit miners.'
So I've read on Bitcoin talk forum that this may all have been a pump and dump by Bitmain...read below by 'Beltsniffer'
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1493601.49...
'I doubt they will do that. They are creating demand for their coin. It's really the only place you can use it.
It goes like this. There is buzz that an Avalon 8 is coming out with efficiencies that could rival the S9, but maybe early next year.
The BTC price skyrockets, "someone" turns on about 2 Exahash worth of gear and drives the difficulty through the roof and creates a "gotta buy more miners" mentality. So Bitmain lists a batch of miners, but only offer BCH for payment. By the time you figure it out, too late. They sold out in 1 hour. You missed out this batch. Wait until the next one, coz now you are stuck with BCH. BCH price drops 50%, so you gotta get more to buy the same miner. If you're prepared, you buy enough to cover the short fall. If not, too bad try again next week. 1 week later, new batch comes out. Pay with your BCH.
Now for the next batch, you get prepared and buy BCH ahead of time. They are happy to sell BCH back to you for BTC. Thus creating demand. In the meantime everybody that wants a miner is buying BCH and driving the price up. We don't care as much about the exchange rate, just that the price we pay lasts long enough to be able to acquire our shiny new miner. So boom, we get the advance twitter notice and run to buy BCH so we can get more miners.
Lather, rinse, repeat...
The end result is that we helped drive up the price so that now, BCH now looks like a viable alternative. The profitability calculators kick in and tell us that we can make twice as much mining BCH as BTC. 70% of BTC hashrate switches over to BCH. It exposes BTC's "weaknesses" and BTC becomes unusable coz the mempool backs up and the only way to get a transaction through is pay huge transaction fees. Of course, eventually our hashrate will stabilize and a new lower difficulty will kick in and the mempool will clear out. But the damage is done. The buzz for BCH has been created. How many BCH news stories did you read this morning from the "mainstream" media. I'd be willing to bet it was more than the last 3 months, since the Aug. 1 fork. The beauty for them, if it doesn't work then they try it again next week.
It's no coincidence that they have a new batch of s9's that has been available for 4 days when all previous batches sold out in hours.
So we did it to ourselves by continuing to buy Bitmain and not buying avalon or ebit miners.'
Edited by Mousem40 on Tuesday 14th November 09:54
RizzoTheRat said:
Which is why Bitcoin is (currently) completely useless as a currency IMO.
Seems to be due to large scale spamming of the mempool. Concerted attacks do this, but can't be maintained for long. The approach by the attackers is a bit like a glazing company smashing your window and then offering to fix it. I agree it does needs fixing, though.Behemoth said:
Seems to be due to large scale spamming of the mempool. Concerted attacks do this, but can't be maintained for long. The approach by the attackers is a bit like a glazing company smashing your window and then offering to fix it. I agree it does needs fixing, though.
What's the best way to fix it - can this be done in a way that is still sufficiently decentralised (i.e. doesn't rely on a government or regulator)?NickCQ said:
What's the best way to fix it - can this be done in a way that is still sufficiently decentralised (i.e. doesn't rely on a government or regulator)?
The only way to fix it would be for the miners to be wiped out. They're the ones spamming and they can afford to because they collect their own fees. It's going to continue until they feel they've 'won' or it's extremely obvious to them they'll never 'win' which I don't believe will ever happen. Anyone can send anything. It can't be stopped.
When the miners were temporarily mollified when Bitcoin forked in August they stopped and fees went back to near zero for a while.
bloomen said:
The only way to fix it would be for the miners to be wiped out. They're the ones spamming and they can afford to because they collect their own fees.
But aren’t the miners necessary for transaction verification and the integrity of the chain etc etc? Can anyone take the place of miners in making the system work?I think these small fee transactions would have much less impact in the right sidechain implementation. The whole idea behind LN & Segwit is to move chatter off the main chain, which both makes small payments fluid and the main chain resilient. Of course, tactics could be drawn up to spam LN but iirc that's being actively considered. Once in place, it'd be incredibly difficult & a colossal cost to spam the main chain (not that the recent attack was particularly cheap!).
NickCQ said:
But aren’t the miners necessary for transaction verification and the integrity of the chain etc etc? Can anyone take the place of miners in making the system work?
Ethereum is slightly ahead in this aspect in they plan to migrate to POS which removes some of these issues. The Casper specification includes steps to stop Miners dominating in the current way. Having said that I'm sure they'll find a way.Behemoth said:
I think these small fee transactions would have much less impact in the right sidechain implementation. The whole idea behind LN & Segwit is to move chatter off the main chain, which both makes small payments fluid and the main chain resilient. Of course, tactics could be drawn up to spam LN but iirc that's being actively considered. Once in place, it'd be incredibly difficult & a colossal cost to spam the main chain (not that the recent attack was particularly cheap!).
But even if LN works as claimed (which I rather doubt) all it will do is allow small transactions to move off chain, it won't require it so spamming the network will still be perfectly possible.TBH I think the main cause of the recent issue was not so much additional transactions (ie spam) but that the transaction throughput dropped so much due to the miners moving over to mine BCH - average block time is still more than 15 minutes (for the last 500 blocks).
tertius said:
But even if LN works as claimed (which I rather doubt) all it will do is allow small transactions to move off chain, it won't require it so spamming the network will still be perfectly possible.
Spam happens when cost is insignificant. Fees will be much too high for small transactions on the main chain. I have absolutely no doubt that sidechains of many flavours will be successful.tertius said:
TBH I think the main cause of the recent issue was not so much additional transactions (ie spam) but that the transaction throughput dropped so much due to the miners moving over to mine BCH - average block time is still more than 15 minutes (for the last 500 blocks).
There were some interesting graphs of the mempool showing tens of thousands of tiny transactions being kicked off leading up to the various shenanigans, which looked an awful lot like bots spamming the chain. Then there's also this posted in July:https://pastebin.com/n0aGBMQr
Mousem40 said:
Just paid $31 to send some BTC to another wallet.OMG
So I've read on Bitcoin talk forum that this may all have been a pump and dump by Bitmain...read below by 'Beltsniffer'
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1493601.49...
'I doubt they will do that. They are creating demand for their coin. It's really the only place you can use it.
It goes like this. There is buzz that an Avalon 8 is coming out with efficiencies that could rival the S9, but maybe early next year.
The BTC price skyrockets, "someone" turns on about 2 Exahash worth of gear and drives the difficulty through the roof and creates a "gotta buy more miners" mentality. So Bitmain lists a batch of miners, but only offer BCH for payment. By the time you figure it out, too late. They sold out in 1 hour. You missed out this batch. Wait until the next one, coz now you are stuck with BCH. BCH price drops 50%, so you gotta get more to buy the same miner. If you're prepared, you buy enough to cover the short fall. If not, too bad try again next week. 1 week later, new batch comes out. Pay with your BCH.
Now for the next batch, you get prepared and buy BCH ahead of time. They are happy to sell BCH back to you for BTC. Thus creating demand. In the meantime everybody that wants a miner is buying BCH and driving the price up. We don't care as much about the exchange rate, just that the price we pay lasts long enough to be able to acquire our shiny new miner. So boom, we get the advance twitter notice and run to buy BCH so we can get more miners.
Lather, rinse, repeat...
The end result is that we helped drive up the price so that now, BCH now looks like a viable alternative. The profitability calculators kick in and tell us that we can make twice as much mining BCH as BTC. 70% of BTC hashrate switches over to BCH. It exposes BTC's "weaknesses" and BTC becomes unusable coz the mempool backs up and the only way to get a transaction through is pay huge transaction fees. Of course, eventually our hashrate will stabilize and a new lower difficulty will kick in and the mempool will clear out. But the damage is done. The buzz for BCH has been created. How many BCH news stories did you read this morning from the "mainstream" media. I'd be willing to bet it was more than the last 3 months, since the Aug. 1 fork. The beauty for them, if it doesn't work then they try it again next week.
It's no coincidence that they have a new batch of s9's that has been available for 4 days when all previous batches sold out in hours.
So we did it to ourselves by continuing to buy Bitmain and not buying avalon or ebit miners.'
Yup I understand all that So I've read on Bitcoin talk forum that this may all have been a pump and dump by Bitmain...read below by 'Beltsniffer'
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1493601.49...
'I doubt they will do that. They are creating demand for their coin. It's really the only place you can use it.
It goes like this. There is buzz that an Avalon 8 is coming out with efficiencies that could rival the S9, but maybe early next year.
The BTC price skyrockets, "someone" turns on about 2 Exahash worth of gear and drives the difficulty through the roof and creates a "gotta buy more miners" mentality. So Bitmain lists a batch of miners, but only offer BCH for payment. By the time you figure it out, too late. They sold out in 1 hour. You missed out this batch. Wait until the next one, coz now you are stuck with BCH. BCH price drops 50%, so you gotta get more to buy the same miner. If you're prepared, you buy enough to cover the short fall. If not, too bad try again next week. 1 week later, new batch comes out. Pay with your BCH.
Now for the next batch, you get prepared and buy BCH ahead of time. They are happy to sell BCH back to you for BTC. Thus creating demand. In the meantime everybody that wants a miner is buying BCH and driving the price up. We don't care as much about the exchange rate, just that the price we pay lasts long enough to be able to acquire our shiny new miner. So boom, we get the advance twitter notice and run to buy BCH so we can get more miners.
Lather, rinse, repeat...
The end result is that we helped drive up the price so that now, BCH now looks like a viable alternative. The profitability calculators kick in and tell us that we can make twice as much mining BCH as BTC. 70% of BTC hashrate switches over to BCH. It exposes BTC's "weaknesses" and BTC becomes unusable coz the mempool backs up and the only way to get a transaction through is pay huge transaction fees. Of course, eventually our hashrate will stabilize and a new lower difficulty will kick in and the mempool will clear out. But the damage is done. The buzz for BCH has been created. How many BCH news stories did you read this morning from the "mainstream" media. I'd be willing to bet it was more than the last 3 months, since the Aug. 1 fork. The beauty for them, if it doesn't work then they try it again next week.
It's no coincidence that they have a new batch of s9's that has been available for 4 days when all previous batches sold out in hours.
So we did it to ourselves by continuing to buy Bitmain and not buying avalon or ebit miners.'
Edited by Mousem40 on Tuesday 14th November 09:54
Vyse said:
What sort of alts are people holding if any?
I currently have VTC, VRC, SALT, NEO, did have GRS but sold to hopefully reenter at lower price, sold STRAT with a bit of profit. Might enter KORE and SUB.
I'm holding ETH, LTC, XLM, IOC, XZC, OMG, XCP.I currently have VTC, VRC, SALT, NEO, did have GRS but sold to hopefully reenter at lower price, sold STRAT with a bit of profit. Might enter KORE and SUB.
I was holding GRS too, but I did the same and dropped it. I don't tend to micromanage my alts though, if there's a really big spike I might trade otherwise I just let it tick over.
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