Crypto Currency Thread

Crypto Currency Thread

Author
Discussion

Zoon

4,222 posts

66 months

Tuesday 6th August
quotequote all
dimots said:
p1stonhead said:
Where can you spend bitcoin like a replacement for traditional money?
I can spend it with anyone I like.
Except the local Ford dealership

Thesprucegoose

18,882 posts

140 months

Tuesday 6th August
quotequote all
dimots said:
Lol but but if he cashes out half in to dollars he still has a better hedge against bitcoin than if he puts half in ethereum. What the hell are you talking about?
That's your advice, i offered mine, not everyone has to agree with what you say.

dimots

1,048 posts

35 months

Tuesday 6th August
quotequote all
Ok fine that's true nobody has to listen to me and I am not offering any advice. I simply disagree that ethereum is a hedge against bitcoin.

Behemoth

1,979 posts

76 months

Tuesday 6th August
quotequote all
Thesprucegoose said:
That's your advice, i offered mine, not everyone has to agree with what you say.
Where do you think Ethereum is going? Let's drop the name calling and have some fundamental analysis to back up your suggestion. If you can form a coherent argument to support speculation on Ethereum today, I'm all ears.

It's my view that crypto assets are slowly but surely heading to a Pareto (ie power law) distribution. That means ~80% of value going to #1, ~80% of the remainder going to #2. Etc. What helps you identify #2 let alone #3 or #4 in that colossal long tail? I don't see anything usurping bitcoin @ #1 and am happy to discuss that intelligently.

Thesprucegoose

18,882 posts

140 months

Tuesday 6th August
quotequote all
Behemoth said:
Where do you think Ethereum is going? Let's drop the name calling and have some fundamental analysis to back up your suggestion. If you can form a coherent argument to support speculation on Ethereum today, I'm all ears.
Name calling, lol idiot isnt name calling, it is if you 100% think BTC is going always goig up.
ETH as a hedge is pretty reasonable, it has its own infrastructure, it has enough tokens to keep price going, and there is development in Plasma and POS. But you missed the whole point i wasn't advocating invested in it specifically, choose any of the other mainstream ones.

The problem is people see their price entwined with BTC, but things can change quickly. You don't need graphs and such like, it is pointless the whole market is heavily manipulated anyway.

The bloke posted as ALT coins where down, I just offered an opinion that is most likely wrong but its better than just saying buy BTC only.



Edited by Thesprucegoose on Tuesday 6th August 11:29

Behemoth

1,979 posts

76 months

Tuesday 6th August
quotequote all
Thesprucegoose said:
ETH as a hedge is pretty reasonable, it has its own infrastructure, it has enough token to keep price going, and there is development in plasma and POS. But you missed the whole point i wasn't advocating invested in it specifically choose any of the other mainstream.
The tokens lying on top of Eth are, as you've already agreed, almost all utterly worthless. Nobody can run a full node, there's so much trash in its chain. The idea of moving to proof of stake is a pipe dream. Any attempted major upgrade will kick the whole shambles to pieces like a game of Buckaroo. Complexity in computing is the direct opposite of security & Eth revels in its complexity.

Choose any of the other mainstream? Is that the full extent of your advice? Choose what? why? for what time frame? Or do you just roll your dice when you decide these things?

Thesprucegoose

18,882 posts

140 months

Tuesday 6th August
quotequote all
Behemoth said:
The tokens lying on top of Eth are, as you've already agreed, almost all utterly worthless. Nobody can run a full node, there's so much trash in its chain. The idea of moving to proof of stake is a pipe dream. Any attempted major upgrade will kick the whole shambles to pieces like a game of Buckaroo. Complexity in computing is the direct opposite of security & Eth revels in its complexity.

Choose any of the other mainstream? Is that the full extent of your advice? Choose what? why? for what time frame? Or do you just roll your dice when you decide these things?
ETH token fuel gas EGO ETH, something BTC doesnt have. It has enough distinguishers to mark it apart from BTC. Look at other coins and each has enough to distuiguish from BTC. XRP has an ecosystem seperate with lower fees, more scalablity (without adding on the 'fantastic' LDN) and works pretty well. The list goes on.

The biggest issue with BTC is that to start getting return of x2, x3 etc you are looking as massive price doubling. You need to create shareholder value, which I think BTC is pretty st at, it uses things like Tether to drive prices up over actual usage, Up to 85% of Bitcoin’s supply is only owned by 1% of wallet addresses.


Edited by Thesprucegoose on Tuesday 6th August 12:13

Behemoth

1,979 posts

76 months

Tuesday 6th August
quotequote all
Thesprucegoose said:
ETH token fuel gas EGO ETH, something BTC doesnt have. It has enough distinguishers to mark it apart from BTC. Look at other coins and each has enough to distuiguish from BTC. XRP has an ecosystem seperate with lower fees, more scalablity (without adding on the 'fantastic' LDN) and works pretty well. The list goes on.

The biggest issue with BTC is that to start getting return of x2, x3 etc you are looking as massive price doubling. You need to create shareholder value, which I think BTC is pretty st at, it uses things like Tether to drive prices up over actual usage, Up to 85% of Bitcoin’s supply is only owned by 1% of wallet addresses.


Edited by Thesprucegoose on Tuesday 6th August 12:13
Most of that 1% is exchange cold storage. It's completely expected.

Tether is a vehicle to on & off ramp fiat. Bitcoin doesn't use it to drive prices up. That's nonsensical.

Shareholder value? There are no shares in crypto. ICOs deliver no share of a company. These tokens are almost without exception a scam.

"ETH token fuel gas EGO ETH" makes absolutely no sense to me. Is your autocomplete playing up?

XRP is laughable. It's a centralised banking solution looking for a problem. It is deeply problematic on so many levels.

Yes, there are plenty of distinguishing features in alt coins. The question is whether they do anything useful or are they all bandwagon jumpers looking to hoodwink poorly educated speculators and make a quick profit as "the new, better bitcoin".

Unless you can intelligently and coherently show that's not the case, then the idea of hedging against bitcoin with alts is a very poor one.

Supersam83

305 posts

90 months

Tuesday 13th August
quotequote all
When will Bitcoin reach it's limit of 21m coins?

Wasn't it going to be 2020 or will something change that will allow a higher limit of bitcoins to be mined?

NickCQ

2,038 posts

41 months

Tuesday 13th August
quotequote all
Behemoth said:
Tether is a vehicle to on & off ramp fiat. Bitcoin doesn't use it to drive prices up. That's nonsensical.
Tether has been shown to be less than 100% backed by cash.

The worry is that Bitfinex has been issuing Tethers backed by other cryptos, and these Tethers are themselves used to purchase crypto.
It injects leverage into the system rather like a fractional reserve bank and the effect is similar to that of fractional reserve mortgage lending on house prices.

Behemoth

1,979 posts

76 months

Tuesday 13th August
quotequote all
NickCQ said:
Tether has been shown to be less than 100% backed by cash.

The worry is that Bitfinex has been issuing Tethers backed by other cryptos, and these Tethers are themselves used to purchase crypto.
It injects leverage into the system rather like a fractional reserve bank and the effect is similar to that of fractional reserve mortgage lending on house prices.
I see your point. It's inevitable that some layered services over Bitcoin will have a fractional reserve effect, particularly when viewed from another currency's perspective (which could include bitcoin derivatives of various flavours).

But at the base layer, 1 bitcoin will always be 1 bitcoin and the scarcity of the 21 million Bitcoin limit is absolute. This will never be breached & it's important that the base layer remains transparent as irrefutable evidence of this. That's what sets Bitcoin apart from other monies that are subject to fractional reserve.

For sure, Tether is a huge potential point of failure. The shenanigans it goes through to circumvent banking regs could backfire & blow up, but it won't be a death knell for Bitcoin. The bitcoin protocol is not impacted by Tether in any way and the bitcoin protocol has nothing whatsoever to do with its issuance.

JaredVannett

732 posts

88 months

Tuesday 13th August
quotequote all
Supersam83 said:
When will Bitcoin reach it's limit of 21m coins?

Wasn't it going to be 2020 or will something change that will allow a higher limit of bitcoins to be mined?
Total supply limit will be much further into the future.

What you are referring to is the Bitcoin Halving, which occurs every 4 years - and the next one is set to take place in the first/second quarter of 2020. This effectively cuts the reward for mining a block by 50%, hence bitcoin becomes more scarce:

https://www.bitcoinblockhalf.com/

Supersam83

305 posts

90 months

Tuesday 13th August
quotequote all
JaredVannett said:
Total supply limit will be much further into the future.

What you are referring to is the Bitcoin Halving, which occurs every 4 years - and the next one is set to take place in the first/second quarter of 2020. This effectively cuts the reward for mining a block by 50%, hence bitcoin becomes more scarce:

https://www.bitcoinblockhalf.com/
Yes so this will drive value and prices of bitcoin up even further.

tertius

5,507 posts

175 months

Tuesday 13th August
quotequote all
JaredVannett said:
Total supply limit will be much further into the future.

What you are referring to is the Bitcoin Halving, which occurs every 4 years - and the next one is set to take place in the first/second quarter of 2020. This effectively cuts the reward for mining a block by 50%, hence bitcoin becomes more scarce:

https://www.bitcoinblockhalf.com/
Bitcoin doesn’t become more scarce rather the rate of increase in supply reduces but there are still more each day.

p1stonhead

20,010 posts

112 months

Tuesday 13th August
quotequote all
Supersam83 said:
JaredVannett said:
Total supply limit will be much further into the future.

What you are referring to is the Bitcoin Halving, which occurs every 4 years - and the next one is set to take place in the first/second quarter of 2020. This effectively cuts the reward for mining a block by 50%, hence bitcoin becomes more scarce:

https://www.bitcoinblockhalf.com/
Yes so this will drive value and prices of bitcoin up even further.
So people will hoard them more in the hope of getting rich instead of spending them?

Guvernator

10,448 posts

110 months

Tuesday 13th August
quotequote all
Hang on a sec, so if mining bitcoin becomes twice as hard literally overnight, what's the incentive for miners to carry on mining? Are they hoping the value of BTC will double to compensate?

Surely if this happens every so often, the cost of mining becomes unprofitable at some point and people just stop doing it. What happens then?

Behemoth

1,979 posts

76 months

Tuesday 13th August
quotequote all
Guvernator said:
Hang on a sec, so if mining bitcoin becomes twice as hard literally overnight, what's the incentive for miners to carry on mining? Are they hoping the value of BTC will double to compensate?

Surely if this happens every so often, the cost of mining becomes unprofitable at some point and people just stop doing it. What happens then?
No, the system balances itself. The halvings have happened a number of times already. It's generally priced in, except for those unawares.

Guvernator

10,448 posts

110 months

Tuesday 13th August
quotequote all
Behemoth said:
No, the system balances itself. The halvings have happened a number of times already. It's generally priced in, except for those unawares.
So when you say it's priced in, the price has to increase sharply, days/weeks before the day to compensate for the extra cost of mining each bitcoin. Does that happen? Surely that's a pretty easy way to make a few bob?

Behemoth

1,979 posts

76 months

Tuesday 13th August
quotequote all
Guvernator said:
So when you say it's priced in, the price has to increase sharply, days/weeks before the day to compensate for the extra cost of mining each bitcoin. Does that happen? Surely that's a pretty easy way to make a few bob?
It's priced in because bitcoin's monetary policy is completely predictable. The miners know what's going to happen.

Guvernator

10,448 posts

110 months

Tuesday 13th August
quotequote all
Behemoth said:
It's priced in because bitcoin's monetary policy is completely predictable. The miners know what's going to happen.
That's a clever way of not really answering the question. Does the price go up because of this? Usually if something takes more effort to make, it's price has to go up. Imagine a real world good where the price to produce it doubled over night. If it doesn't go up, why not?

If it does, it seems like a very easy way to make a killing which sounds a bit dodgy to me too,.