Crypto Currency Thread
Discussion
Thesprucegoose said:
So you disagree with the report by that the Bank of France looking at its own token to run on another coin, that is very weird really, as the report is there. Maybe it is because they are not mentioning BTC it is 'rubbish' news.
Also considering I think i have posted at most 2 stories like this in the years on this thread, you are talking out the wrong hole again as usual.
this is the direct report, I would say it is quite important news for investors.
https://www.banque-france.fr/sites/default/files/m...
You very clearly haven't read it properly. The report isn't the fact sheet you just linked to but the one published on 8th Jan. No central bank is ever going to issue a token owned or controlled by other parties. You just don't get it.Also considering I think i have posted at most 2 stories like this in the years on this thread, you are talking out the wrong hole again as usual.
this is the direct report, I would say it is quite important news for investors.
https://www.banque-france.fr/sites/default/files/m...
Behemoth said:
That's a very good point, Bitcoin hasn't experienced a full business cycle and it is new territory. I think its scarcity is a more important factor. Considering the dollar has no scarcity (a trillion printed at will just today), I think Bitcoin will prove very resilient in the next couple of years as we tumble into recession.
Behemoth can I ask what your viewpoint on XRP is? I understand its use by banks to some extent and the technology behind it but its value as a crypto I am not so sure on.
JiggyJaggy said:
JiggyJaggy said:
What platforms are people using to trade Bitcoin and other Crypto? Using IG for generalised trading but finding the Bitcoin margins quite high.
Anyone with a suggestion for this please? Thanks in advance.I did also use Revolut once because of time lags with funding elsewhere and would avoid using them in future.
You want to do short term trading and not bothered about physically owning the crypto?
g4ry13 said:
I use Kraken to buy. Haven't done any trading on them or stuff with margin.
I did also use Revolut once because of time lags with funding elsewhere and would avoid using them in future.
You want to do short term trading and not bothered about physically owning the crypto?
I have a Revolut account, not over worried about the time lags as long as the short term trading of Bitcoin is good value per trade. I did also use Revolut once because of time lags with funding elsewhere and would avoid using them in future.
You want to do short term trading and not bothered about physically owning the crypto?
And yes not bothered about owning Crypto unless these is any massive plus side to it other than the obvious reason of it being a finite source?
JiggyJaggy said:
g4ry13 said:
I use Kraken to buy. Haven't done any trading on them or stuff with margin.
I did also use Revolut once because of time lags with funding elsewhere and would avoid using them in future.
You want to do short term trading and not bothered about physically owning the crypto?
I have a Revolut account, not over worried about the time lags as long as the short term trading of Bitcoin is good value per trade. I did also use Revolut once because of time lags with funding elsewhere and would avoid using them in future.
You want to do short term trading and not bothered about physically owning the crypto?
And yes not bothered about owning Crypto unless these is any massive plus side to it other than the obvious reason of it being a finite source?
What's wrong with IG if you're happy to just speculate on price?
JiggyJaggy said:
That margin's on IG seemed quite high. From memory it was approx 0.4 points unless that is the norm?
Margin or spread? Margin is the reflection of position and book risk, spread is a reflection of execution risk. You’d expect bother to be above average at a reputable firm due to both being higher risk.
Spreadbet / CFD margin for IG is clearly set out on the website
https://www.ig.com/uk/help-and-support/spread-bett...
https://www.ig.com/uk/help-and-support/spread-bett...
If you are a retail investor (and unless you already know you aren't, you are) then basically it is 50% margin required (goes up a bit for bigger trades)
Professional margin requirement is 4.5%
The spread varies depending on the market
IG also has a useful summary of the cost of holding a BTC position on it's platform which many forget to include in their sums
https://www.ig.com/uk/bitcoin-btc
https://www.ig.com/uk/help-and-support/spread-bett...
https://www.ig.com/uk/help-and-support/spread-bett...
If you are a retail investor (and unless you already know you aren't, you are) then basically it is 50% margin required (goes up a bit for bigger trades)
Professional margin requirement is 4.5%
The spread varies depending on the market
IG also has a useful summary of the cost of holding a BTC position on it's platform which many forget to include in their sums
https://www.ig.com/uk/bitcoin-btc
JPJPJP said:
Spreadbet / CFD margin for IG is clearly set out on the website
https://www.ig.com/uk/help-and-support/spread-bett...
https://www.ig.com/uk/help-and-support/spread-bett...
If you are a retail investor (and unless you already know you aren't, you are) then basically it is 50% margin required (goes up a bit for bigger trades)
Professional margin requirement is 4.5%
The spread varies depending on the market
IG also has a useful summary of the cost of holding a BTC position on it's platform which many forget to include in their sums
https://www.ig.com/uk/bitcoin-btc
No one ever considers the actual costs. They just look to see who has the narrower spread and lowest margin and decide that that must be the best broker when in reality it is usually the most expensive. https://www.ig.com/uk/help-and-support/spread-bett...
https://www.ig.com/uk/help-and-support/spread-bett...
If you are a retail investor (and unless you already know you aren't, you are) then basically it is 50% margin required (goes up a bit for bigger trades)
Professional margin requirement is 4.5%
The spread varies depending on the market
IG also has a useful summary of the cost of holding a BTC position on it's platform which many forget to include in their sums
https://www.ig.com/uk/bitcoin-btc
BTC is a brilliant example. You have to raise the overnight funding cost to a level that deters people from warehousing. Because of the security an OTC issued by an FCA regulated firm offers over physical crypto that benefit is huge so your cost has to be huge to push those customers away. But then if you publish what you’re really charging then your traders will also be pushed away, but you have to publish your charges so what you do is find a new way to display your charges and as customers only ever look at the number and never whatbit means, instead of that number being 15 or 20 you change it to be 1. 1 is really cheap because 1 is smaller, much smaller than 15 or 20.
So with that achieved and knowing that over 95% of positions are always held overnight even when customers only opened them convinced they would be out before rollover you can A book the flow to your hearts content despite the absolutely enormous charges by the prime broker for holding the default risk.
LeadFarmer said:
I've bought some XRP via Coinbase, as a bit of a random punt.
I haven't bought any XRP in a while, i've become a bit jaded with them although sitting on a pile of them. My recent top-ups have mainly been in Ethereum and picking up a few LTC. Also got some Bitcoin around the $5k mark.
DonkeyApple said:
No one ever considers the actual costs. They just look to see who has the narrower spread and lowest margin and decide that that must be the best broker when in reality it is usually the most expensive.
BTC is a brilliant example. You have to raise the overnight funding cost to a level that deters people from warehousing. Because of the security an OTC issued by an FCA regulated firm offers over physical crypto that benefit is huge so your cost has to be huge to push those customers away. But then if you publish what you’re really charging then your traders will also be pushed away, but you have to publish your charges so what you do is find a new way to display your charges and as customers only ever look at the number and never whatbit means, instead of that number being 15 or 20 you change it to be 1. 1 is really cheap because 1 is smaller, much smaller than 15 or 20.
So with that achieved and knowing that over 95% of positions are always held overnight even when customers only opened them convinced they would be out before rollover you can A book the flow to your hearts content despite the absolutely enormous charges by the prime broker for holding the default risk.
Of what is BTC a brilliant example? Anyone 'trading' cryptocurrencies like you describe is a mug. Mugs will trade anything volatile. This has nothing to do with bitcoin it's the financial industry and in particular the spread betting/CFD industry that is the steaming pile of sBTC is a brilliant example. You have to raise the overnight funding cost to a level that deters people from warehousing. Because of the security an OTC issued by an FCA regulated firm offers over physical crypto that benefit is huge so your cost has to be huge to push those customers away. But then if you publish what you’re really charging then your traders will also be pushed away, but you have to publish your charges so what you do is find a new way to display your charges and as customers only ever look at the number and never whatbit means, instead of that number being 15 or 20 you change it to be 1. 1 is really cheap because 1 is smaller, much smaller than 15 or 20.
So with that achieved and knowing that over 95% of positions are always held overnight even when customers only opened them convinced they would be out before rollover you can A book the flow to your hearts content despite the absolutely enormous charges by the prime broker for holding the default risk.
t in the equation.Just buy some bitcoin.
The answer to what exchange to use depends on your attitude to risk and your need for features. Price of dealing comes way down the list once you've properly considered liquidity & risk factors. Volatility in bitcoin is so high that the spread/fee isn't too important unless you're intent on day trading.
If you're an advanced high volume day trader looking for leverage, options, futures and the most liquid market then Bitmex leads the pack.
If you're looking for an exchange accepting sterling directly, then Coinfloor is highly reputable with an audit of its holdings (one of the few exchanges in the world that does this). The only downside is liquidity isn't great.
If you've €\$ then Bitstamp is long standing, robust and very liquid.
If you want to speculate via a regulated traditional instrument, then GBTC (Grayscale Bitcoin Trust) is the standard. I'd buy when premiums are low wrt BTC spot price - they oscillate. NB This is a US product & I don't know if there are any UK equivalents.
If you're looking to hold bitcoin directly, then there are many avenues, including some of the above. You're unlikely to want to deal with wallets until you learn more about it & by the time you do, you'll already know where's best to buy.
If you're an advanced high volume day trader looking for leverage, options, futures and the most liquid market then Bitmex leads the pack.
If you're looking for an exchange accepting sterling directly, then Coinfloor is highly reputable with an audit of its holdings (one of the few exchanges in the world that does this). The only downside is liquidity isn't great.
If you've €\$ then Bitstamp is long standing, robust and very liquid.
If you want to speculate via a regulated traditional instrument, then GBTC (Grayscale Bitcoin Trust) is the standard. I'd buy when premiums are low wrt BTC spot price - they oscillate. NB This is a US product & I don't know if there are any UK equivalents.
If you're looking to hold bitcoin directly, then there are many avenues, including some of the above. You're unlikely to want to deal with wallets until you learn more about it & by the time you do, you'll already know where's best to buy.
Edited by Behemoth on Monday 6th April 11:29
Behemoth said:
I was just reminded about the ETN (exchange traded note) from XBT Provider AB in Sweden & with a Jersey based guarantor which has been around for a few years now. Apparently you can buy it through a SIPP but I don't know much else about it.
I hold this but it's pointless, other than being able to hold in a SIPP and to buy through e.g. HL. It's just btc + fees. If you complete a corporate application through Bitstamp there is no reason you can't hold physical bitcoin in your SIPP, funded with your company card.
dimots said:
DonkeyApple said:
No one ever considers the actual costs. They just look to see who has the narrower spread and lowest margin and decide that that must be the best broker when in reality it is usually the most expensive.
BTC is a brilliant example. You have to raise the overnight funding cost to a level that deters people from warehousing. Because of the security an OTC issued by an FCA regulated firm offers over physical crypto that benefit is huge so your cost has to be huge to push those customers away. But then if you publish what you’re really charging then your traders will also be pushed away, but you have to publish your charges so what you do is find a new way to display your charges and as customers only ever look at the number and never whatbit means, instead of that number being 15 or 20 you change it to be 1. 1 is really cheap because 1 is smaller, much smaller than 15 or 20.
So with that achieved and knowing that over 95% of positions are always held overnight even when customers only opened them convinced they would be out before rollover you can A book the flow to your hearts content despite the absolutely enormous charges by the prime broker for holding the default risk.
Of what is BTC a brilliant example? Anyone 'trading' cryptocurrencies like you describe is a mug. Mugs will trade anything volatile. This has nothing to do with bitcoin it's the financial industry and in particular the spread betting/CFD industry that is the steaming pile of sBTC is a brilliant example. You have to raise the overnight funding cost to a level that deters people from warehousing. Because of the security an OTC issued by an FCA regulated firm offers over physical crypto that benefit is huge so your cost has to be huge to push those customers away. But then if you publish what you’re really charging then your traders will also be pushed away, but you have to publish your charges so what you do is find a new way to display your charges and as customers only ever look at the number and never whatbit means, instead of that number being 15 or 20 you change it to be 1. 1 is really cheap because 1 is smaller, much smaller than 15 or 20.
So with that achieved and knowing that over 95% of positions are always held overnight even when customers only opened them convinced they would be out before rollover you can A book the flow to your hearts content despite the absolutely enormous charges by the prime broker for holding the default risk.
t in the equation.Just buy some bitcoin.
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