Crypto Currency Thread
Discussion
Mr Whippy said:
Sorry yes, I meant yield to mitigate against inflation.
Gold did ok but in the last 3 years it's not done it's job.
I'd agree on silver but for any mere mortals buying with VAT it's useless. Unless you buy paper I assume that has no VAT, but then you need some kind of wrapper for it which likely costs money.
Unless you can buy paper silver and take hold of it passively?
Silver and gold (physical and paper) are just as manipulated as the other markets. People such as Peter Schiff have been saying gold is going to $10k and silver to $1k for their entire lives. Every time they show any sign of a good rally they quickly get hammered back down again. Peter Schiff would have probably been right but completely underestimated the levels that the Fed and government would go to prop up the markets and prevent them from crashing.Gold did ok but in the last 3 years it's not done it's job.
I'd agree on silver but for any mere mortals buying with VAT it's useless. Unless you buy paper I assume that has no VAT, but then you need some kind of wrapper for it which likely costs money.
Unless you can buy paper silver and take hold of it passively?
You can either spend your life waiting for "the day" with PMs or expand your risk exposure and dabble in other more volatile markets where you can make bank. Stocks haven't made any sense for a long time. I remember about a year ago when pretty much every asset class went well into the red, you'd see the DJIA up by 1000 points on the day
. I see a lot of people buying paper and arguing that they will just stand for physical delivery of the metal. My personal opinion is that won't happen and the best they could expect is to be credited with the current spot (not retail) price in the same fiat currency they bought it with. I could be wrong but I don't believe there is enough physical to back all the paper.
Not sure what the current situation is since Brexit, but prior to Brexit you could buy new physical silver from the UK without the VAT if you bought from European dealers. European Mint in Estonia was the favourite as they had the best prices, but you had to buy with your GBP already converted to EUR as their own website conversion rate was horrendous, and then you had to organise delivery with their recommended courier separately. It was too much hassle and risk for many, but those who were brave enough to see it through could get their hands on large quantities of cheap silver.
Mr Whippy said:
PH4555 said:
Mr Whippy said:
Well, go 75% gold and 25% bitcoin.
Between the two they should be pretty solid but also give a decent yield.
He was asking about mitigating against inflation, no mention of yield. Physical gold is the stock answer for being the hedge against inflation/wealth protection, although personally I'd say physical silver is the true inflation hedge : https://www.macrotrends.net/1470/historical-silver.... I wouldn't buy either if I wanted yield.Between the two they should be pretty solid but also give a decent yield.
BTC (and all other crypto currencies) is nothing more than gambling.
Gold did ok but in the last 3 years it's not done it's job.
I'd agree on silver but for any mere mortals buying with VAT it's useless. Unless you buy paper I assume that has no VAT, but then you need some kind of wrapper for it which likely costs money.
Unless you can buy paper silver and take hold of it passively?
Mr Whippy said:
I'd agree on silver but for any mere mortals buying with VAT it's useless. Unless you buy paper I assume that has no VAT, but then you need some kind of wrapper for it which likely costs money.
Unless you can buy paper silver and take hold of it passively?
Agreed, also at £630 a Kilo where on earth are you going to keep it? I would personally go for gold, there is nothing like holding a few cast 1 oz bars in your hand and it is easy to hide.Unless you can buy paper silver and take hold of it passively?
PH4555 said:
Chamon_Lee said:
you can buy it and vault it in swiss/guernsey etc - no VAT Payable.
Storage costs?From their storage terms and conditions page :
https://www.chards.co.uk/info/storage-terms-of-sal...
Chards said:
Fees
7.1 The fees payable by you for the Services (Fees) will be as notified to you by us (via the Website, over the telephone or in-store, as applicable) during the ordering process. Further information about our Fees for the Services can be found on our Website. The Fees notified to you will be inclusive of any VAT that may be applicable. The Fees are payable in addition to the price of any Products that you wish to purchase from us.
7.2 The Fees shall be charged on a monthly basis. Months for the purpose of the Fees (Billing Months) shall follow calendar months. The first Billing Month (which may not be a complete calendar month) shall commence on the Service Start Date (as defined in clause 11.1) and subsequent Billing Months shall commence on the 1st of the month.
7.3 The Fees will vary each Billing Month in line with variations to the value of the Stored Products. You will not be invoiced for any Fees for the Services when you place your Order. The Fees payable for the Services in the first two Billing Months will be invoiced on or around the start of the second Billing Month. The Fees for each subsequent Billing Month will be invoiced in arrears on or around the start of that Billing Month. The Fees payable for each Billing Month under a Service Contract, will be calculated as follows:
Value of Stored Products x Relevant Percentage / 12 + VAT
Where:
the Value of Stored Products shall be calculated by multiplying the weight in grams of those Stored Products by the average price per gram. The average price per gram shall be calculated by adding the highest and lowest price per gram for a Stored Product (according to the live price feed on the Website) during the 30-day period immediately before the invoice date and dividing this amount by 2;
the Relevant Percentage shall be:
0.5% per annum for gold;
0.6% per annum for all other Stored Products; and
The minimum amount of the Fees payable by each customer shall be £10 (inlcuding VAT) per Billing Month.
7.4 The Fees shall be payable in respect of Services provided during the term of a Service Contract. After termination of a Service Contract, we will hold the relevant Stored Products free of charge for a maximum of 14 days, but we reserve the right to charge the Fees for any storage of your Stored Products after expiry of this 14 day period.
7.5 We may change how we calculate the Fees under a Service Contract at any time provided that we give at least one (1) month’s prior notice to you of such change, to take effect at the start of the following Billing Month. If you do not accept any such change to the Fees, you may terminate your Service Contract under clause 12.1.
7.6 We take all reasonable care to ensure that the Fees and delivery charges are correct at the time at which they are notified to you. However, it is always possible that, despite our reasonable efforts, the Fees or delivery charges we notify to you may be incorrect. If the correct Fees or delivery charges are less than the amounts that were notified to you during the order process, we will charge the lower amount.
7.7 If you place an Order for the provision of Services in respect of Products not purchased from us, we reserve the right to charge (in addition to the Fees) a valuation and administration fee of £25 (excluding VAT) which shall be payable when you place your Order.
Looking at that lot, particularly the minimum monthly fee, I wonder if it would be cheaper just to buy physical and pay the VAT 7.1 The fees payable by you for the Services (Fees) will be as notified to you by us (via the Website, over the telephone or in-store, as applicable) during the ordering process. Further information about our Fees for the Services can be found on our Website. The Fees notified to you will be inclusive of any VAT that may be applicable. The Fees are payable in addition to the price of any Products that you wish to purchase from us.
7.2 The Fees shall be charged on a monthly basis. Months for the purpose of the Fees (Billing Months) shall follow calendar months. The first Billing Month (which may not be a complete calendar month) shall commence on the Service Start Date (as defined in clause 11.1) and subsequent Billing Months shall commence on the 1st of the month.
7.3 The Fees will vary each Billing Month in line with variations to the value of the Stored Products. You will not be invoiced for any Fees for the Services when you place your Order. The Fees payable for the Services in the first two Billing Months will be invoiced on or around the start of the second Billing Month. The Fees for each subsequent Billing Month will be invoiced in arrears on or around the start of that Billing Month. The Fees payable for each Billing Month under a Service Contract, will be calculated as follows:
Value of Stored Products x Relevant Percentage / 12 + VAT
Where:
the Value of Stored Products shall be calculated by multiplying the weight in grams of those Stored Products by the average price per gram. The average price per gram shall be calculated by adding the highest and lowest price per gram for a Stored Product (according to the live price feed on the Website) during the 30-day period immediately before the invoice date and dividing this amount by 2;
the Relevant Percentage shall be:
0.5% per annum for gold;
0.6% per annum for all other Stored Products; and
The minimum amount of the Fees payable by each customer shall be £10 (inlcuding VAT) per Billing Month.
7.4 The Fees shall be payable in respect of Services provided during the term of a Service Contract. After termination of a Service Contract, we will hold the relevant Stored Products free of charge for a maximum of 14 days, but we reserve the right to charge the Fees for any storage of your Stored Products after expiry of this 14 day period.
7.5 We may change how we calculate the Fees under a Service Contract at any time provided that we give at least one (1) month’s prior notice to you of such change, to take effect at the start of the following Billing Month. If you do not accept any such change to the Fees, you may terminate your Service Contract under clause 12.1.
7.6 We take all reasonable care to ensure that the Fees and delivery charges are correct at the time at which they are notified to you. However, it is always possible that, despite our reasonable efforts, the Fees or delivery charges we notify to you may be incorrect. If the correct Fees or delivery charges are less than the amounts that were notified to you during the order process, we will charge the lower amount.
7.7 If you place an Order for the provision of Services in respect of Products not purchased from us, we reserve the right to charge (in addition to the Fees) a valuation and administration fee of £25 (excluding VAT) which shall be payable when you place your Order.
.PH4555 said:
Mr Whippy said:
Sorry yes, I meant yield to mitigate against inflation.
Gold did ok but in the last 3 years it's not done it's job.
I'd agree on silver but for any mere mortals buying with VAT it's useless. Unless you buy paper I assume that has no VAT, but then you need some kind of wrapper for it which likely costs money.
Unless you can buy paper silver and take hold of it passively?
Silver and gold (physical and paper) are just as manipulated as the other markets. People such as Peter Schiff have been saying gold is going to $10k and silver to $1k for their entire lives. Every time they show any sign of a good rally they quickly get hammered back down again. Peter Schiff would have probably been right but completely underestimated the levels that the Fed and government would go to prop up the markets and prevent them from crashing.Gold did ok but in the last 3 years it's not done it's job.
I'd agree on silver but for any mere mortals buying with VAT it's useless. Unless you buy paper I assume that has no VAT, but then you need some kind of wrapper for it which likely costs money.
Unless you can buy paper silver and take hold of it passively?
You can either spend your life waiting for "the day" with PMs or expand your risk exposure and dabble in other more volatile markets where you can make bank. Stocks haven't made any sense for a long time. I remember about a year ago when pretty much every asset class went well into the red, you'd see the DJIA up by 1000 points on the day
. I see a lot of people buying paper and arguing that they will just stand for physical delivery of the metal. My personal opinion is that won't happen and the best they could expect is to be credited with the current spot (not retail) price in the same fiat currency they bought it with. I could be wrong but I don't believe there is enough physical to back all the paper.
Not sure what the current situation is since Brexit, but prior to Brexit you could buy new physical silver from the UK without the VAT if you bought from European dealers. European Mint in Estonia was the favourite as they had the best prices, but you had to buy with your GBP already converted to EUR as their own website conversion rate was horrendous, and then you had to organise delivery with their recommended courier separately. It was too much hassle and risk for many, but those who were brave enough to see it through could get their hands on large quantities of cheap silver.
I know a few UK retailers get some used silver they can resell as VAT free, but it goes fast.
Yes, paper is squashed, and physical isn't so liquid in reality, trying to find buyers that won't take the pee is hard work... try dumping £5,000 in silver via eBay too hundreds of buyers, then even they have fees.
That is why I mentioned adding a sprinkle of BTC because in that basket of 'world ending but somehow carrying on nutty outcome' view, bitcoin is a bit like digital gold... limited supply.
And yes, silver in vaults, VAT free, no thanks... storage fees. Right off you've got a lot of inflation protection worn away by that.
You're better off just driving to Ireland on the proposed new bridge/tunnel, and buying VAT free silver and then bringing it back
Gold is the only one that has a chance of doing half decently. It's also got a bottom stop on value at about 10% or so. 1Oz Brit has £100 face value, so even if gold goes to £10/oz you'll be laughing! Sort of.
Does anyone dabble with OTC alt coins? I have a question which I've not been able to find the answer to : if you were to speculate on an alt with a promising white paper and buy a bunch of coins, but then at some point in the future the developers give up on the project and the coins gets removed from Bitforex, Uniswap etc, what happens to your coins? Do you just lose them without any warning? The majority of the OTC alts don't have an offline wallet, but even if they did, if no exchange is listing a swap pair for them, how would you sell them and turn them back to something useful like ETH or USDT?
p1stonhead said:
Why are companies buying speculative crypto currencies?
Is this normal?
The big advocate for this is Michael Saylor of MicroStrategy. It is worth reading about what he says, or watching interviews with him, to really understand how buying Bitcoin for your company treasury is a great thing to do. Although it goes over my head somewhat.Is this normal?
Throttle Body said:
The big advocate for this is Michael Saylor of MicroStrategy. It is worth reading about what he says, or watching interviews with him, to really understand how buying Bitcoin for your company treasury is a great thing to do. Although it goes over my head somewhat.
I think he makes good points. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6zyPnSA6vQ&ab...+ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LbDTQWJOVmo&ab... 24:50 onwards.
Edited by PH4555 on Wednesday 24th February 21:41
Silver is interesting to me, such a small (relative) market cap.
A metal that some like to collect/hold, it has millennia of history "US dimes, quarters, half dollars and dollars were minted in 90% silver until 1964"
Unlike Gold, lot's of silver mined is used (and more will be re solar and electric higher usage) and barely any is recycled.
Silver/Gold Miners can be a good natural leveraged play on the prices.
It's price does seem to be depressed (manipulated?) by huge shorts and these are by only a few players, and I think they can use huge leverage ie don't have to put all their money in 1:1 as we do if we buy or short. However it can go up some anyway and if the manipulation is real and does eventually fail the price will go up, which is better than holding something with an arguably manipulated up price?
Silver to Gold earth crust ratio is around 18:1 but recent usual Silver/Gold price ratio is the 50-80 range, when you also have the higher annual industrial usage of silver (most gold just sits there) you'd think it'd be closer to the existence ratio?
I only have it for these reasons and as I know it won't ever go to nil and has a high potential upside but I also accept it might never come. Feels better than money in a savings account or £/$ effectively, like the lure of Bitcoin the phrase of retaining your purchasing power, it may not be the best way for sure but it feels lower risk to me.
Like Bitcoin silver has it's share of enthusiastic (obsessive) online people, as always anyone like this is in the respective 'space' and so there is some self interest, the Silver guys interest me as it's an loved space, as this thread shows but they stick with it and some are quite vocal on the price suppression and risk of paper contracts, Silver ETF recent prospectus wording changes etc etc.
Stocks, Bitcoin or metals there is always a lot more to them and the way they trade than meets the eye it seems.
A metal that some like to collect/hold, it has millennia of history "US dimes, quarters, half dollars and dollars were minted in 90% silver until 1964"
Unlike Gold, lot's of silver mined is used (and more will be re solar and electric higher usage) and barely any is recycled.
Silver/Gold Miners can be a good natural leveraged play on the prices.
It's price does seem to be depressed (manipulated?) by huge shorts and these are by only a few players, and I think they can use huge leverage ie don't have to put all their money in 1:1 as we do if we buy or short. However it can go up some anyway and if the manipulation is real and does eventually fail the price will go up, which is better than holding something with an arguably manipulated up price?
Silver to Gold earth crust ratio is around 18:1 but recent usual Silver/Gold price ratio is the 50-80 range, when you also have the higher annual industrial usage of silver (most gold just sits there) you'd think it'd be closer to the existence ratio?
I only have it for these reasons and as I know it won't ever go to nil and has a high potential upside but I also accept it might never come. Feels better than money in a savings account or £/$ effectively, like the lure of Bitcoin the phrase of retaining your purchasing power, it may not be the best way for sure but it feels lower risk to me.
Like Bitcoin silver has it's share of enthusiastic (obsessive) online people, as always anyone like this is in the respective 'space' and so there is some self interest, the Silver guys interest me as it's an loved space, as this thread shows but they stick with it and some are quite vocal on the price suppression and risk of paper contracts, Silver ETF recent prospectus wording changes etc etc.
Stocks, Bitcoin or metals there is always a lot more to them and the way they trade than meets the eye it seems.
I looked at buying physical silver a couple of months ago. It dropped to $12/oz around March, but has hovered between $25 and $28 recently. The rumour amongst the Reddit crowd is that the value is heavily supressed, and it could be squeezed, but that seems unlikely. If it drops to a similar price again, I might buy a few kilos for fun and for holding long term.
There are people in the industry that think it is, there are charts about the shorts on it which are more than the other metals etc.
I think the argument is it's not able to freely operate in the normal supply and demand way I'm not sure what is these days though, I'll admit to not understanding markets fully.
It's interesting how all these things we place value on can vary through history or even in the short term, how it's a mix of real useful value and then potential, through to sentiment, all the way to irrational and almost unbelievable (that Dogecoin where it's creator is amazed at what's happened)
This sort of blows my mind a bit, 1.5 Trillion in the crypto market (I'm not sure what use most have)
https://coinmarketcap.com/
market cap of top 10 Silver miners, so actual operating companies with huge mines, collecting ore, to be refined into silver that is used by Tesla/Apple etc etc about 30Billion. It's complicated as all mines produce some silver and silver mines produce some other metals but a Trillion is a 1000 billion
Dogecoin's Market cap almost as high as the top silver miner's at 8 Billion.
I think the argument is it's not able to freely operate in the normal supply and demand way I'm not sure what is these days though, I'll admit to not understanding markets fully.
It's interesting how all these things we place value on can vary through history or even in the short term, how it's a mix of real useful value and then potential, through to sentiment, all the way to irrational and almost unbelievable (that Dogecoin where it's creator is amazed at what's happened)
This sort of blows my mind a bit, 1.5 Trillion in the crypto market (I'm not sure what use most have)
https://coinmarketcap.com/
market cap of top 10 Silver miners, so actual operating companies with huge mines, collecting ore, to be refined into silver that is used by Tesla/Apple etc etc about 30Billion. It's complicated as all mines produce some silver and silver mines produce some other metals but a Trillion is a 1000 billion
Dogecoin's Market cap almost as high as the top silver miner's at 8 Billion.
Edited by Scootersp on Thursday 25th February 11:25
PH4555 said:
PH4555 said:
Chamon_Lee said:
you can buy it and vault it in swiss/guernsey etc - no VAT Payable.
Storage costs?From their storage terms and conditions page :
https://www.chards.co.uk/info/storage-terms-of-sal...
Chards said:
Fees
7.1 The fees payable by you for the Services (Fees) will be as notified to you by us (via the Website, over the telephone or in-store, as applicable) during the ordering process. Further information about our Fees for the Services can be found on our Website. The Fees notified to you will be inclusive of any VAT that may be applicable. The Fees are payable in addition to the price of any Products that you wish to purchase from us.
7.2 The Fees shall be charged on a monthly basis. Months for the purpose of the Fees (Billing Months) shall follow calendar months. The first Billing Month (which may not be a complete calendar month) shall commence on the Service Start Date (as defined in clause 11.1) and subsequent Billing Months shall commence on the 1st of the month.
7.3 The Fees will vary each Billing Month in line with variations to the value of the Stored Products. You will not be invoiced for any Fees for the Services when you place your Order. The Fees payable for the Services in the first two Billing Months will be invoiced on or around the start of the second Billing Month. The Fees for each subsequent Billing Month will be invoiced in arrears on or around the start of that Billing Month. The Fees payable for each Billing Month under a Service Contract, will be calculated as follows:
Value of Stored Products x Relevant Percentage / 12 + VAT
Where:
the Value of Stored Products shall be calculated by multiplying the weight in grams of those Stored Products by the average price per gram. The average price per gram shall be calculated by adding the highest and lowest price per gram for a Stored Product (according to the live price feed on the Website) during the 30-day period immediately before the invoice date and dividing this amount by 2;
the Relevant Percentage shall be:
0.5% per annum for gold;
0.6% per annum for all other Stored Products; and
The minimum amount of the Fees payable by each customer shall be £10 (inlcuding VAT) per Billing Month.
7.4 The Fees shall be payable in respect of Services provided during the term of a Service Contract. After termination of a Service Contract, we will hold the relevant Stored Products free of charge for a maximum of 14 days, but we reserve the right to charge the Fees for any storage of your Stored Products after expiry of this 14 day period.
7.5 We may change how we calculate the Fees under a Service Contract at any time provided that we give at least one (1) month’s prior notice to you of such change, to take effect at the start of the following Billing Month. If you do not accept any such change to the Fees, you may terminate your Service Contract under clause 12.1.
7.6 We take all reasonable care to ensure that the Fees and delivery charges are correct at the time at which they are notified to you. However, it is always possible that, despite our reasonable efforts, the Fees or delivery charges we notify to you may be incorrect. If the correct Fees or delivery charges are less than the amounts that were notified to you during the order process, we will charge the lower amount.
7.7 If you place an Order for the provision of Services in respect of Products not purchased from us, we reserve the right to charge (in addition to the Fees) a valuation and administration fee of £25 (excluding VAT) which shall be payable when you place your Order.
Looking at that lot, particularly the minimum monthly fee, I wonder if it would be cheaper just to buy physical and pay the VAT 7.1 The fees payable by you for the Services (Fees) will be as notified to you by us (via the Website, over the telephone or in-store, as applicable) during the ordering process. Further information about our Fees for the Services can be found on our Website. The Fees notified to you will be inclusive of any VAT that may be applicable. The Fees are payable in addition to the price of any Products that you wish to purchase from us.
7.2 The Fees shall be charged on a monthly basis. Months for the purpose of the Fees (Billing Months) shall follow calendar months. The first Billing Month (which may not be a complete calendar month) shall commence on the Service Start Date (as defined in clause 11.1) and subsequent Billing Months shall commence on the 1st of the month.
7.3 The Fees will vary each Billing Month in line with variations to the value of the Stored Products. You will not be invoiced for any Fees for the Services when you place your Order. The Fees payable for the Services in the first two Billing Months will be invoiced on or around the start of the second Billing Month. The Fees for each subsequent Billing Month will be invoiced in arrears on or around the start of that Billing Month. The Fees payable for each Billing Month under a Service Contract, will be calculated as follows:
Value of Stored Products x Relevant Percentage / 12 + VAT
Where:
the Value of Stored Products shall be calculated by multiplying the weight in grams of those Stored Products by the average price per gram. The average price per gram shall be calculated by adding the highest and lowest price per gram for a Stored Product (according to the live price feed on the Website) during the 30-day period immediately before the invoice date and dividing this amount by 2;
the Relevant Percentage shall be:
0.5% per annum for gold;
0.6% per annum for all other Stored Products; and
The minimum amount of the Fees payable by each customer shall be £10 (inlcuding VAT) per Billing Month.
7.4 The Fees shall be payable in respect of Services provided during the term of a Service Contract. After termination of a Service Contract, we will hold the relevant Stored Products free of charge for a maximum of 14 days, but we reserve the right to charge the Fees for any storage of your Stored Products after expiry of this 14 day period.
7.5 We may change how we calculate the Fees under a Service Contract at any time provided that we give at least one (1) month’s prior notice to you of such change, to take effect at the start of the following Billing Month. If you do not accept any such change to the Fees, you may terminate your Service Contract under clause 12.1.
7.6 We take all reasonable care to ensure that the Fees and delivery charges are correct at the time at which they are notified to you. However, it is always possible that, despite our reasonable efforts, the Fees or delivery charges we notify to you may be incorrect. If the correct Fees or delivery charges are less than the amounts that were notified to you during the order process, we will charge the lower amount.
7.7 If you place an Order for the provision of Services in respect of Products not purchased from us, we reserve the right to charge (in addition to the Fees) a valuation and administration fee of £25 (excluding VAT) which shall be payable when you place your Order.
.Scootersp said:
This sort of blows my mind a bit, 1.5 Trillion in the crypto market (I'm not sure what use most have)
https://coinmarketcap.com/
market cap of top 10 Silver miners, so actual operating companies with huge mines, collecting ore, to be refined into silver that is used by Tesla/Apple etc etc about 30Billion. It's complicated as all mines produce some silver and silver mines produce some other metals but a Trillion is a 1000 billion
Dogecoin's Market cap almost as high as the top silver miner's at 8 Billion.
Same here, as well as the fact that there are over 8500 separate crypto currencies now. Like you say, a few days ago the market cap wasn't far off the national debt of the whole of the UK. I was reading today that the entire furlough scheme has cost £53.8 Billion, sounds a lot until you consider that is less than half the value of Ethereum at £132 Billion.https://coinmarketcap.com/
market cap of top 10 Silver miners, so actual operating companies with huge mines, collecting ore, to be refined into silver that is used by Tesla/Apple etc etc about 30Billion. It's complicated as all mines produce some silver and silver mines produce some other metals but a Trillion is a 1000 billion
Dogecoin's Market cap almost as high as the top silver miner's at 8 Billion.
Crypto is worth so much when none of the coins really have a use at all. To be honest I am amazed the bubble hasn't burst as yet.
Joey Deacon said:
Crypto is worth so much when none of the coins really have a use at all. To be honest I am amazed the bubble hasn't burst as yet.
This is simply not true and usually the standard answer from a no-coiner. As Michael (of MicroStrategy fame) succinctly says in the linked interview above - how you do transfer millions from New York from Tokyo in a matter of seconds for virtually no transaction cost, no KYC and Spanish Inquisition from the banks or authorities, no transport cost and no debasement from money expansion? Name me a better method. Gold? Would take months and cost millions in transport/insurance. Any other offers?The no-coiners always focus on low end transactions and regurgitate the same tired old argument that you can't really use BTC to buy a coffee or pizza. Why would you need or even want to when things like Apple Pay or old fashioned cash currently perform that role well? The technology is developing all the time and there are a ton of coins and tokens that solve BTCs shortcomings for micro-transactions.
How can you say Monero doesn't have a use? If you want to move funds completely undercover without any trace, to anywhere in the world with an internet connection, it performs that role 100%.
I think all these people gleefully waiting for the BTC "bubble to burst" are going to be bitterly disappointed. A $10k drop in value on the day does not equate to the bubble bursting either. That's just what BTC does and usually retraces within a short period.
PH4555 said:
This is simply not true and usually the standard answer from a no-coiner. As Michael (of MicroStrategy fame) succinctly says in the linked interview above - how you do transfer millions from New York from Tokyo in a matter of seconds for virtually no transaction cost, no KYC and Spanish Inquisition from the banks or authorities, no transport cost and no debasement from money expansion? Name me a better method. Gold? Would take months and cost millions in transport/insurance. Any other offers?
The no-coiners always focus on low end transactions and regurgitate the same tired old argument that you can't really use BTC to buy a coffee or pizza. Why would you need or even want to when things like Apple Pay or old fashioned cash currently perform that role well? The technology is developing all the time and there are a ton of coins and tokens that solve BTCs shortcomings for micro-transactions.
How can you say Monero doesn't have a use? If you want to move funds completely undercover without any trace, to anywhere in the world with an internet connection, it performs that role 100%.
I think all these people gleefully waiting for the BTC "bubble to burst" are going to be bitterly disappointed. A $10k drop in value on the day does not equate to the bubble bursting either. That's just what BTC does and usually retraces within a short period.
Who are you calling a "no-coiner"?The no-coiners always focus on low end transactions and regurgitate the same tired old argument that you can't really use BTC to buy a coffee or pizza. Why would you need or even want to when things like Apple Pay or old fashioned cash currently perform that role well? The technology is developing all the time and there are a ton of coins and tokens that solve BTCs shortcomings for micro-transactions.
How can you say Monero doesn't have a use? If you want to move funds completely undercover without any trace, to anywhere in the world with an internet connection, it performs that role 100%.
I think all these people gleefully waiting for the BTC "bubble to burst" are going to be bitterly disappointed. A $10k drop in value on the day does not equate to the bubble bursting either. That's just what BTC does and usually retraces within a short period.
And what you are saying is it is used to move dodgy money around the world?
Edited by anonymous-user on Thursday 25th February 16:48
Joey Deacon said:
Who are you calling a "no-coiner"?
And what you are saying is it is used to move dodgy money around the world?
So why are you seemingly constantly sAnd what you are saying is it is used to move dodgy money around the world?
Edited by Joey Deacon on Thursday 25th February 16:48
tting on BTC?What Monero is used for is a strawman argument. You claimed that none of the coins have any use. I listed just 2 with real world use cases, ergo your argument is factually incorrect.
I can't keep up with all this. It's like a soap opera.
Is the lost founder now found? And trying to get his coins back?
https://www.ft.com/content/56ba5a61-367e-4b10-abc8...
Is the lost founder now found? And trying to get his coins back?
https://www.ft.com/content/56ba5a61-367e-4b10-abc8...
Mabbs9 said:
I can't keep up with all this. It's like a soap opera.
Is the lost founder now found? And trying to get his coins back?
https://www.ft.com/content/56ba5a61-367e-4b10-abc8...
Can't they just lock him up in an asylum already? Is the lost founder now found? And trying to get his coins back?
https://www.ft.com/content/56ba5a61-367e-4b10-abc8...
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