Crypto Currency Thread
Discussion
dimots said:
Joey Deacon said:
I would be interested to know whether those that keep pushing Crypto actually believe in the Technology and believe it has real world uses?
Yes. It is incredible technology. It does all the important work of banks programmatically and reduces/removes our reliance on banks, and in turn removes the need for banks to provide stupid profit generating financial products to keep the system running. Bitcoin is building a permanent ledger of every transaction, is hard money that starkly highlights the impact of money printing, and is open source and politically neutral (although it aligns with technolibertarian principles in itself it is less overtly political than any nation-backed currency).
We have not even scratched the surface of the real world applications. Energy markets, defi and so on... It's pretty limitless.
I'd say 99% of people in Crypto have no real clue about why they're buying a specific coin or the technology behind it apart from the fact they're hoping the value goes up.
Condi said:
PH4555 said:
I don't know because I don't care as it's totally irrelevant. The need for that vehicle is there, that's all that matters.
It's not irrelevant at all. You claim it's a need, but can't explain why you think it's a need for any legitimate business. The answer, very simply, is that its NOT a need, unless you're doing something illegal and underhand, and don't wish to, or can't, use the normal banking system. In which case, there is no way that any government is going to be comfortable with large amounts of money moving about for things which are illegal, and therefore it will be banned or restricted. I don't disagree the need to move money for nefarious purposes exists, it absolutely does, but if that is all Bitcoin is then it will become a target for law enforcement. Good luck getting your money back out again if that happens!
I'm sure you know the risks, after all, if it was safe then you'd only be getting 1%
.... but don't come on here complaining when your bitcoins are difficult to covert back into £ and no company will accept them for payment! You can't even explain what YOU think it is.... In your post you talk about it being a currency hedge? But then the post I quoted above says it's a medium of value transfer? If it's a medium of value transfer then how does that work when it's value can go from $58k to $48k in a matter of days? When transactions fees get high, how is that any better than using the banking system?
Edited by Condi on Friday 26th February 01:27
BTCs real world use has changed from what it was originally designed for. The underlying blockchain tech is sound and the future of all our payment systems + more. It still performs its original role but not particularly efficient at the lower transaction values now because it's morphed into a speculation vehicle with high volatility. On top of that, because of its continued steady price growth over the past 12 years its use is changing again and now being used as a store of value.
The volatility certainly isn't doing it any favours but it doesn't seem to be much of a concern to several Fortune 500 companies who have jumped onboard and I'd take a wild guess that they probably know considerably more about how to make money than some car nuts on an internet forum
. But how is this volatility any different from what we've seen in the stock markets over the past 12 months? Plenty of times last year the markets went deep into the red, only to suddenly go vertical in the last half hour of trading and the DJIA magically finish 1000 points up 
. It makes BTCs volatility look quite stable in comparison.If BTC is too much of a Ponzi for your liking then stick to your safe, regulated stock, forex and commodities/PM markets where everything is completely above board and not manipulated whatsoever
, happy in the knowledge that you're not getting involved in those completely worthless digital 0s and 1s with no actual use and only used by fraudsters and they're all going to lose their shirts when it goes to zero. Meanwhile, those of us with an open mind who could look past all that nonsense and see its future price potential have already made considerable profits from it and is looking likely to make some life-changing profits for those people still holding. Fortune favours the bold.PH4555 said:
If BTC is too much of a Ponzi for your liking then stick to your safe, regulated stock, forex and commodities/PM markets where everything is completely above board and not manipulated whatsoever , happy in the knowledge that you're not getting involved in those completely worthless digital 0s and 1s with no actual use and only used by fraudsters and they're all going to lose their shirts when it goes to zero. Meanwhile, those of us with an open mind who could look past all that nonsense and see its future price potential have already made considerable profits from it and is looking likely to make some life-changing profits for those people still holding. Fortune favours the bold.
What about all the people who had BTC stored on Mt Gox back in the day? From what I understand 850,000 bitcoins were "stolen" which at the time were worth $483 each., happy in the knowledge that you're not getting involved in those completely worthless digital 0s and 1s with no actual use and only used by fraudsters and they're all going to lose their shirts when it goes to zero. Meanwhile, those of us with an open mind who could look past all that nonsense and see its future price potential have already made considerable profits from it and is looking likely to make some life-changing profits for those people still holding. Fortune favours the bold.You could argue they had potentially life changing amounts of money (assuming they HODL) stolen from them.
Joey Deacon said:
PH4555 said:
If BTC is too much of a Ponzi for your liking then stick to your safe, regulated stock, forex and commodities/PM markets where everything is completely above board and not manipulated whatsoever , happy in the knowledge that you're not getting involved in those completely worthless digital 0s and 1s with no actual use and only used by fraudsters and they're all going to lose their shirts when it goes to zero. Meanwhile, those of us with an open mind who could look past all that nonsense and see its future price potential have already made considerable profits from it and is looking likely to make some life-changing profits for those people still holding. Fortune favours the bold.
What about all the people who had BTC stored on Mt Gox back in the day? From what I understand 850,000 bitcoins were "stolen" which at the time were worth $483 each., happy in the knowledge that you're not getting involved in those completely worthless digital 0s and 1s with no actual use and only used by fraudsters and they're all going to lose their shirts when it goes to zero. Meanwhile, those of us with an open mind who could look past all that nonsense and see its future price potential have already made considerable profits from it and is looking likely to make some life-changing profits for those people still holding. Fortune favours the bold.You could argue they had potentially life changing amounts of money (assuming they HODL) stolen from them.
If you're silly enough to leave your coins in an exchange wallet, don't be surprised if/when they disappear.
halo34 said:
dimots said:
Yes. It is incredible technology. It does all the important work of banks programmatically and reduces/removes our reliance on banks, and in turn removes the need for banks to provide stupid profit generating financial products to keep the system running.
Bitcoin is building a permanent ledger of every transaction, is hard money that starkly highlights the impact of money printing, and is open source and politically neutral (although it aligns with technolibertarian principles in itself it is less overtly political than any nation-backed currency).
We have not even scratched the surface of the real world applications. Energy markets, defi and so on... It's pretty limitless.
ThisBitcoin is building a permanent ledger of every transaction, is hard money that starkly highlights the impact of money printing, and is open source and politically neutral (although it aligns with technolibertarian principles in itself it is less overtly political than any nation-backed currency).
We have not even scratched the surface of the real world applications. Energy markets, defi and so on... It's pretty limitless.
Scootersp said:
So it only needs to get past the politicians and financial powerhouses of the world!! I'm being a bit flippant, but equally if there's a whiff of them losing their money/power then won't they go to any lengths to restrict/regulate/own it, that has to be a worry?
I agree. I think the question worth asking is what happens IF they regulate it out of existence within the US economy? I think the answer is it goes to another place where the regulation allows it. With proxies and unbanked dollar similes like Tether does the crypto economy even need the approval of the US banking system?Would be a very big risk for them to take and could result in complete loss of potentisl tax revenue.
halo34 said:
dimots said:
Yes. It is incredible technology. It does all the important work of banks programmatically and reduces/removes our reliance on banks, and in turn removes the need for banks to provide stupid profit generating financial products to keep the system running.
Bitcoin is building a permanent ledger of every transaction, is hard money that starkly highlights the impact of money printing, and is open source and politically neutral (although it aligns with technolibertarian principles in itself it is less overtly political than any nation-backed currency).
We have not even scratched the surface of the real world applications. Energy markets, defi and so on... It's pretty limitless.
ThisBitcoin is building a permanent ledger of every transaction, is hard money that starkly highlights the impact of money printing, and is open source and politically neutral (although it aligns with technolibertarian principles in itself it is less overtly political than any nation-backed currency).
We have not even scratched the surface of the real world applications. Energy markets, defi and so on... It's pretty limitless.
But because it’s probably 25meg of code tops, and the code base is rather generic, and open, it can be duplicated infinitely.
The value is in the energy invested mining the coins.
Those last few coins will take a lot to mine at huge values.
The value of bitcoin like anything is faith in it.
But lots of issues.
Ie, no intermediary in payment disputes. Sent your bitcoin but seller not sending goods/services?
Add intermediary and you just have partial banks in essence, back in the chain (think swipe etc)
So yes bitcoin great. But I’d argue banks can just copy it and add their own intermediary layer and be more competitive on costs, because ultimately bitcoin is expensive because it’s impartial. You pay a premium for that distributed nature.
I’m on the fence but I’d say while bitcoin is pumped and dumped it just devalues it’s long term life and gives other crypto opportunity to surpass it.
Right now, see it as a pyramid scheme that gov are happy to skim profits off.
Enjoy if you can take emotion out of it and buy low and sell high.
Imo anyone who bought after £15,000 will have to get timing perfect.
Mr Whippy said:
Ie, no intermediary in payment disputes. Sent your bitcoin but seller not sending goods/services?
Add intermediary and you just have partial banks in essence, back in the chain (think swipe etc).
Ethereum's concept of contracts at least helps with this.Add intermediary and you just have partial banks in essence, back in the chain (think swipe etc).
Mr Whippy said:
So yes bitcoin great. But I’d argue banks can just copy it and add their own intermediary layer and be more competitive on costs
That is arguably the likeliest thing to happen. If Visa and MasterCard support cryptocurrencies, they'll be their own flavour, for which they control the supply. The general public won't be mining it on their NVIDIA RTX.If someone buys a bitcoin for £1Tn, or 0.0000000001 bitcoin for £1, it doesn’t mean bitcoin is ‘worth’ anything, just that someone paid £1Tn/bitcoin.
The money or value doesn’t exist.
If it goes to £4000 then it’s irrelevant unless you sell at £4000 and realise the loss if you bought at say £8000.
The money goes to the person you bought your btc off initially, and is the difference between what you buy and sell at.
If no one sold and it dropped to zero, no one loses anything. They lose it when they try realise it’s value, ironically, into fiat.
The money or value doesn’t exist.
If it goes to £4000 then it’s irrelevant unless you sell at £4000 and realise the loss if you bought at say £8000.
The money goes to the person you bought your btc off initially, and is the difference between what you buy and sell at.
If no one sold and it dropped to zero, no one loses anything. They lose it when they try realise it’s value, ironically, into fiat.
vulture1 said:
Let me rephrase.
If I were god, and removed all crypto from existence but gave everyone who had money in crypto right now their money back where would you put that money?
This is exactly one of the points I've been arguing. BTC has 2 or even 3 sides to the 'coin' :If I were god, and removed all crypto from existence but gave everyone who had money in crypto right now their money back where would you put that money?
1. its use as a payment transactions vehicle.
2. its use as a speculative asset.
3. its use as a store of value.
These often get conflated during discussions and debates. Each one has its own good and bad points, directly affecting the others.
Presumably all the haters would keep their cash 'safe' in a high interest savings account with a fantastic yield at a nominal 0.05 % interest rate
when in real terms it will be more like -5%, or maybe they would invest in the safe and secure bond market , or the highly regulated stock and commodities markets as silver and gold are definitely going to the moon soon(tm).There is no 'safe' place. You can't even bury it or hide it under your mattress as the currency debasement from the endless money printing makes it basically worthless.
This is why I think big corporations are now buying large quantities of BTC and other crypto coins because they know there's nowhere left in the fiat system to put their money without losing it to inflation and currency debasement. In fact Michael Saylor said as much as his interview. That shows you right there how utterly messed up the financial markets are when gambling on BTC becomes a more attractive option for your money. Love it or hate it, this is why I believe BTC will rally over the medium term.
So much hate.
Btw, I know this thread is only for people who believe in Bitcoin and hence why my opinions seem to get people so butt-hurt, but remember for every buyer in the market there is a seller. About 50% of people in the market think it's likely to go down.... The way it is talked about here you would think there is no logical reason for anyone, ever, to sell.
To those who have taken a risk and done well, I salute you. I salute anyone who takes money off the market. To those who recognise it was a gamble and say so then very well done. Genuinely.
To Dimots and a few select others, I have a lot of respect for the research and their opinions. We may disagree but that is life, they need sellers in the market else there would be no coins for sale.
The people I take issue with are those who believe it is the future and has strong fundamentals when all they're actually doing in regurgitating what someone else has said, and cannot answer even the most basic questions about what it actually does. To invest in something and then say "I don't know, and I don't care" when asked why it is useful over existing things is idiotic. Sorry, but it is. You must have a reason to invest. If you admit it's a s
t or bust gamble then cool, we all love gambling, but that isn't what your reason for investing was.
As far as fortune favours the bold... Tell that to the young lad in America who killed himself after his $180,000 loss on GME.
Btw, I know this thread is only for people who believe in Bitcoin and hence why my opinions seem to get people so butt-hurt, but remember for every buyer in the market there is a seller. About 50% of people in the market think it's likely to go down.... The way it is talked about here you would think there is no logical reason for anyone, ever, to sell.
To those who have taken a risk and done well, I salute you. I salute anyone who takes money off the market. To those who recognise it was a gamble and say so then very well done. Genuinely.
To Dimots and a few select others, I have a lot of respect for the research and their opinions. We may disagree but that is life, they need sellers in the market else there would be no coins for sale.
The people I take issue with are those who believe it is the future and has strong fundamentals when all they're actually doing in regurgitating what someone else has said, and cannot answer even the most basic questions about what it actually does. To invest in something and then say "I don't know, and I don't care" when asked why it is useful over existing things is idiotic. Sorry, but it is. You must have a reason to invest. If you admit it's a s
t or bust gamble then cool, we all love gambling, but that isn't what your reason for investing was. PH4555 said:
If BTC is too much of a Ponzi for your liking then stick to your safe, regulated stock, forex and commodities/PM markets where everything is completely above board and not manipulated whatsoever , happy in the knowledge that you're not getting involved in those completely worthless digital 0s and 1s with no actual use and only used by fraudsters and they're all going to lose their shirts when it goes to zero.
Fortune favours the bold.
The difference is I understand "safe, regulated" stocks and commodities. My first boss said "It matters to me less what your PnL looks like, but more that you can explain to me what you've done and why". Quite simply I cannot pull together any logical argument which stands up to the questions I asked you yesterday and which you cannot answer. I still believe that Bitcoin could easily go to 0, although I do accept that by sheer momentum it may continue to have some value even if there is no use for it. What that value is however, who knows? , happy in the knowledge that you're not getting involved in those completely worthless digital 0s and 1s with no actual use and only used by fraudsters and they're all going to lose their shirts when it goes to zero.Fortune favours the bold.
As far as fortune favours the bold... Tell that to the young lad in America who killed himself after his $180,000 loss on GME.
whatxd said:
Condi,
I appreciate you entertaining me in this thread while my Bitcoin investment/gamble went 15x, even though you have mocked me several times.
This week though, I win. When the price broke $50k, I decided I didn't want to be part of the next correction in case it was a top/start of another long term downtrend, so I had a trailing stop limit at Coinbase Pro which I kept increasing as the price went up.
I sold almost everything, six figures, at $52k. Now in my early thirties, I have enough for a new Porsche and the financing for a self build or large renovation/extension project. Thank goodness I went with my gut and didn't listen to the likes of you and Lemming Train back in 2018.
The downside of your upside is there some sucker who lost out.I appreciate you entertaining me in this thread while my Bitcoin investment/gamble went 15x, even though you have mocked me several times.
This week though, I win. When the price broke $50k, I decided I didn't want to be part of the next correction in case it was a top/start of another long term downtrend, so I had a trailing stop limit at Coinbase Pro which I kept increasing as the price went up.
I sold almost everything, six figures, at $52k. Now in my early thirties, I have enough for a new Porsche and the financing for a self build or large renovation/extension project. Thank goodness I went with my gut and didn't listen to the likes of you and Lemming Train back in 2018.
You have something in common though. You don't even understand bitcoin, technology wise.
You fluttered, some won, some lost.
It's pure speculation.
vulture1 said:
Let me rephrase.
If I were god, and removed all crypto from existence but gave everyone who had money in crypto right now their money back where would you put that money?
Perhaps something more environmentally friendly?If I were god, and removed all crypto from existence but gave everyone who had money in crypto right now their money back where would you put that money?
Here in 2021 we have gone from digging stuff out of the ground to a currency based on using energy, ie electricity, and everybody can do it !
Can a planet exist on a premise that everyone using energy resources can mine money to get rich? Is that sustainable?
Condi said:
So much hate.
Btw, I know this thread is only for people who believe in Bitcoin and hence why my opinions seem to get people so butt-hurt, but remember for every buyer in the market there is a seller. About 50% of people in the market think it's likely to go down.... The way it is talked about here you would think there is no logical reason for anyone, ever, to sell.
To those who have taken a risk and done well, I salute you. I salute anyone who takes money off the market. To those who recognise it was a gamble and say so then very well done. Genuinely.
To Dimots and a few select others, I have a lot of respect for the research and their opinions. We may disagree but that is life, they need sellers in the market else there would be no coins for sale.
The people I take issue with are those who believe it is the future and has strong fundamentals when all they're actually doing in regurgitating what someone else has said, and cannot answer even the most basic questions about what it actually does. To invest in something and then say "I don't know, and I don't care" when asked why it is useful over existing things is idiotic. Sorry, but it is. You must have a reason to invest. If you admit it's a st or bust gamble then cool, we all love gambling, but that isn't what your reason for investing was.
As far as fortune favours the bold... Tell that to the young lad in America who killed himself after his $180,000 loss on GME.
Bubbles upon bubbles, some inter connected.Btw, I know this thread is only for people who believe in Bitcoin and hence why my opinions seem to get people so butt-hurt, but remember for every buyer in the market there is a seller. About 50% of people in the market think it's likely to go down.... The way it is talked about here you would think there is no logical reason for anyone, ever, to sell.
To those who have taken a risk and done well, I salute you. I salute anyone who takes money off the market. To those who recognise it was a gamble and say so then very well done. Genuinely.
To Dimots and a few select others, I have a lot of respect for the research and their opinions. We may disagree but that is life, they need sellers in the market else there would be no coins for sale.
The people I take issue with are those who believe it is the future and has strong fundamentals when all they're actually doing in regurgitating what someone else has said, and cannot answer even the most basic questions about what it actually does. To invest in something and then say "I don't know, and I don't care" when asked why it is useful over existing things is idiotic. Sorry, but it is. You must have a reason to invest. If you admit it's a s
t or bust gamble then cool, we all love gambling, but that isn't what your reason for investing was. PH4555 said:
If BTC is too much of a Ponzi for your liking then stick to your safe, regulated stock, forex and commodities/PM markets where everything is completely above board and not manipulated whatsoever , happy in the knowledge that you're not getting involved in those completely worthless digital 0s and 1s with no actual use and only used by fraudsters and they're all going to lose their shirts when it goes to zero.
Fortune favours the bold.
The difference is I understand "safe, regulated" stocks and commodities. My first boss said "It matters to me less what your PnL looks like, but more that you can explain to me what you've done and why". Quite simply I cannot pull together any logical argument which stands up to the questions I asked you yesterday and which you cannot answer. I still believe that Bitcoin could easily go to 0, although I do accept that by sheer momentum it may continue to have some value even if there is no use for it. What that value is however, who knows? , happy in the knowledge that you're not getting involved in those completely worthless digital 0s and 1s with no actual use and only used by fraudsters and they're all going to lose their shirts when it goes to zero.Fortune favours the bold.
As far as fortune favours the bold... Tell that to the young lad in America who killed himself after his $180,000 loss on GME.
Here is something you can spend Eth on... currently $2.4m worth needed (irony not lost that they haven't taken the risk to price the auction in ETH...)
https://onlineonly.christies.com/s/beeple-first-50...
https://onlineonly.christies.com/s/beeple-first-50...
Edited by andy ted on Friday 26th February 15:03
Condi said:
So much hate.
No hate, merely annoyance caused by people like yourself who first admit that they don't understand it and then go on to call anyone who disagrees with them "idiots". Most decent people who don't have any knowledge about a particular subject matter would either keep their opinions to themself or observe the discussions from a distance and learn from people who do have a better understanding of the subject matter and likely direction it will take. But no, let's continue regurgitating tired old phrases over and over because we're bitter no-coiners who are jealous that we missed the boat :1. it's a Ponzi.
2. It's a Pyramid scheme scam.
3. it has no use.
4. it's worthless digital 0s and 1s.
5. it's only used by fraudsters.
6. you can't buy coffee or pizza with it.
7. it's going to zero and I can't wait.
Yawn
.I'm actually more annoyed with myself for even engaging with you in the first place. You've been posting the same boring rubbish for over a year and I don't even know why you're permitted to post in the crypto currency threads when it's clear you hate them. I don't recall reading a single positive thing from you about them, it's all "Ponzi, pyramid, no use, going to zero" garbage. Why are you even here if you hate them so much? Is there an 'ignore' feature on this forum?
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